Three Claims of Uniformitarian Naturalism

[Xelasnave.1947]

So, if this is correct

Yes and it is possible that the universe is eternal and there never was a creator and thinking about the need for creation is merely a reflection of humans attempt to reduce things to a level that makes some sort of sense to them but actually irrelevant in the matter of considering a creation.
Certainly many things are possible but really the notion of an eternal entity popping out eternity to create a finite universe seems very far stretched ..why not just have an eternal universe as when one wonders about the possible motivation of an eternal entity popping out of eternity one is at a loss and yet reasons given purely match the expectations of humans. The most reasonable possibility is that all gods are a human invention.

Apparently, James would have been younger, since Jesus would have been, according to the accounts, the firstborn of Mary

Yes those accounts, if only there were written records we could be a little more certain. I suggest that the brother was first born and latter written out of the picture so Jesus could appear the first born ...and why have they never mentioned that Jesus had a sister and for whatever reason no records of her existence has remained.

That is what we should expect to find, right?

Actually the differences would have been much less than we modern humans will believe.
Take the Sumerians (where so much of the bible came from) ...they were extremely sophisticated and we know so much about them because the wrote things down. If you examine them you find their civilization gave us pretty well everything..including the bible and the stories therein.
You should study them as you can see where your god came from...really interesting..but I won't spoil the ending for you.

As you know the printing press did not exist, word of mouth, would have been the normal communication method for the time. There may have been earlier eye witness written records that we don’t have

Writhing was by this time not new at all...your approach is not being honest. Think of the civilizations who had existed and used writhing...any come to mind..and yet this amazing story of a man beating death does not get recorded at the time is simply an indication that the event never happened...add to that the Suns deal of "dieing" and resurrection three days later indicates it's made up...perhaps add the parrallel for birth of the Sun and birth of Jesus..the date...the star the three kings...do you know what I am talking about? I bet you don't and yet those hints further confirm that we are dealing with a myth.

Because, just as you said, these would have been important events to preserve in written document form for future generations, not yet alive.

Sure 20 years, 30 years later let's rush out and write it down...but not at the time..no printing press that's it..did you know the Summarians could copy a clay tablet to circulate an idea or message ... they were very clever.
Look I know you want to believe the party line but the reason why it was all written after the event is more logically explained under "the Romans did it" story. No matter how you try to offer reasons why it was not big news you can not offer anything mildly credible ... and probably the main reason it was not news is because such a claim attached to numerous human god prior to ...

The Jewish authorities should have been able to produce the body of Jesus immediately to suppress the resurrection and spread of Christianity, which would have been a threat to their control and power.

Hmmmm funny the Jews never saw Jesus as the one prophesy in their bible spoke about...how do you explain that? They probably were well aware later it was a Roman invention. I am afraid you just can not push aside the fact that the death and resurrection failed to be instant big news.

Do you know of any such records?

Pretty hard to produce records on an invented event until much later just as the Romans did to create their myth based in astrology.
Can you not see the perfect parrallel between all the human gods and the Sun..it damn easy if you care to look.

Perhaps China new all about these events from word of mouth. A God matching the attributes of the God of the Old Testament apparently was worshipped in ancient China under a different name.

Perhaps? You still have nothing but wishful thinking grasping at perhaps and possibilities that have no support in reality.

According to the gospels

Remember these were written by the Romans and there evidence in support is overwhelming.

from studying signs in the Stars

Interesting ... the three kings no doubt.

And elements of the gospel, are imbedded in their own written symbolism, they use today everyday.

Which proves what exactly?

Perhaps the day is coming in the future when similar events will happen again and perhaps they will be all over the news then. If some of the prophecies in the Bible are true and are correctly understood? Not easy to do!

Prophecies is like making your own shoes...

But in that time and culture, there was no “News” like we have today.

Sure no tv but stuff got around and the fact remains the event you claim did not get around suggesting it never happened.

Anyways a nice post and I can see that you are trying to be the man christianity expects or rather what the Romans wanted of their controlled subjects. Your faith will carry you through all my inconvenient observations no doubt but if you study the history you will enjoy it...what I find perplexing is how the Sumerians seemed to almost appear out of no where and their many stories etc.
Have a great day. You may have to work hard on this post as I have no time to edit and a spell checker that likes to re write much of my stuff.
Alex

 

[paddoboy]

And if the professional experts could not explain it, where would you go next for an explanation?

?? The professional experts have given other possible reasons as to why and how such a thing may happen. And of course those same professional experts also question whether it did happen as per the methodology you are pushing.

Launch Google Earth, just for fun, and search for Nuweibaa on the East side of the Sinai Peninsula.

That is really where the Red Sea Crossing took place.

Gulf of Suez
https://www.google.com/search?q=whe...me..69i57j0.1453j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
In certain places in the world, the tide can leave the sea bottom dry for hours and then come roaring back. In fact, in 1798, Napoleon Bonaparte and a small group of soldiers on horseback were crossing the Gulf of Suez, the northern end of the Red Sea, roughly where Moses and the Israelites are said to have crossed.Dec 5, 2014

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ion-for-the-parting-of-the-red-sea-in-exodus/

 

[SetiAlpha6]

You're obviously talking about Intelligent Design proponents?

How about this Scientific Hoax that was Peer Reviewed and eagerly used by the Scientific community to deceive people for decades?

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Piltdown-man

“In 1953–54, as an outcome of these discoveries, an intensive scientific reexamination of the Piltdown remains showed them to be the skillfully disguised fragments of a quite modern human cranium (about 600 years old), the jaw and teeth of an orangutan, and the tooth probably of a chimpanzee, all fraudulently introduced into the shallow gravels. Chemical tests revealed that the fragments had been deliberately stained, some with chromium and others with acid iron sulfate solution (neither chromium nor sulfate occurs in the locality), and that, although the associated remains were of genuine extinct animals, they were not of British provenance. The teeth too had been subjected to artificial abrasion to simulate the human mode of flat wear.”

Yes they did eventually figure it out, so they were deceived. But they eagerly chose to be deceived, because it gave them evidence for their religion.

Scientific evidence did not have to be real to be used to spread the faith at all.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

?? The professional experts have given other possible reasons as to why and how such a thing may happen. And of course those same professional experts also question whether it did happen as per the methodology you are pushing.

Gulf of Suez
https://www.google.com/search?q=where the Red Sea Crossing took place&oq=where the Red Sea Crossing took place&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.1453j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
In certain places in the world, the tide can leave the sea bottom dry for hours and then come roaring back. In fact, in 1798, Napoleon Bonaparte and a small group of soldiers on horseback were crossing the Gulf of Suez, the northern end of the Red Sea, roughly where Moses and the Israelites are said to have crossed.Dec 5, 2014

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ion-for-the-parting-of-the-red-sea-in-exodus/

I have never seen any theory that explains the wall of water on their left and the wall of water on their right. Have you?

 

[paddoboy]

I have never seen any theory that explains the wall of water on their left and the wall of water on their right. Have you?

I have never seen any evidence that this ever happened. Have you?

 

[SetiAlpha6]

I have never seen any evidence that this ever happened. Have you?

Yes I have.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

I have never seen any evidence that this ever happened. Have you?

It is a fact Paddo..I saw it in a movie.and there certainly was walls of water either side.. but there is now evidence that there was no flight from Eygypt, so maybe it never happened, maybe the movie I saw did not reflect reality...I don't think we will get anywhere with Set I on this one as he has photos of mountains and rocks and we can't argue with that evidence. Maybe there was a god back then and of late he just can't manage really big miracles any more ..well he must be getting on ..he would be over six thousand years old at least or 13 billion years even or eternal that would be really old I guess. And clearly he has handed over the family business to his son...
I however do find it interesting the various myths humans invent re gods and so much of it astronomy or astrology based. The Sumerians creation story is fascinating particularly their inclusion of astronomy stuff.
Why our theists think one god out of thousands is not a human invention I don't know particularly if you look at civilisations earlier and how various ideas were borrowed...but perhaps we should avoid asking Set I for evidence of Mosses else he brings out his photo album of rocks and mountains...
And speaking of whales not one theist has made a comment upon that story..in a whale three days and the man lived..what is the moral of that one I wonder.
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Yes I have.

Speaking of evidence...if you look at many crosses on churches they have a circle which is the zodiac thing suporting entirely my claims re the whole human god based on astrology thing..oh and do you know the significance of the fish seen on car bumpers etc??? Do you know where to find the three kings and can you name the star they line up with on 25th December to show where the Sun will be born...mmm or is that where the Sun will be on the cross...
Look can you clear up that story about the whale and that dude in it for three days... what's the deal with that..

Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

View attachment 3466

How about this Scientific Hoax that was Peer Reviewed and eagerly used by the Scientific community to deceive people for decades?

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Piltdown-man

“In 1953–54, as an outcome of these discoveries, an intensive scientific reexamination of the Piltdown remains showed them to be the skillfully disguised fragments of a quite modern human cranium (about 600 years old), the jaw and teeth of an orangutan, and the tooth probably of a chimpanzee, all fraudulently introduced into the shallow gravels. Chemical tests revealed that the fragments had been deliberately stained, some with chromium and others with acid iron sulfate solution (neither chromium nor sulfate occurs in the locality), and that, although the associated remains were of genuine extinct animals, they were not of British provenance. The teeth too had been subjected to artificial abrasion to simulate the human mode of flat wear.”

Yes they did eventually figure it out, so they were deceived. But they eagerly chose to be deceived, because it gave them evidence for their religion.

Scientific evidence did not have to be real to be used to spread the faith at all.

I am surprised you can't find more given science weeds out hoaxes. Hoaxes are not limited to archeology..there are scientists who have faked data and all of them have been caught..every single one..else show me one that has not been caught...if you take a look you can fine heaps..but none of it makes god real.
What does science say about the shroud? As I understand it they tested it but the scjentists were only given a piece that was added by way of repair in the 13th century...do you know if they are going to test the real bits so as to establish it is as old as they say..that's what is needed. But I sometimes wonder if it could be a hoax but that is just me.
Alex

 

[paddoboy]

Yes I have.

Liar, liar, pants on fire!

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Liar, liar, pants on fire!

Hey, Thanks!

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Yes and it is possible that the universe is eternal and there never was a creator and thinking about the need for creation is merely a reflection of humans attempt to reduce things to a level that makes some sort of sense to them but actually irrelevant in the matter of considering a creation.
Certainly many things are possible but really the notion of an eternal entity popping out eternity to create a finite universe seems very far stretched ..why not just have an eternal universe as when one wonders about the possible motivation of an eternal entity popping out of eternity one is at a loss and yet reasons given purely match the expectations of humans. The most reasonable possibility is that all gods are a human invention.

Yes those accounts, if only there were written records we could be a little more certain. I suggest that the brother was first born and latter written out of the picture so Jesus could appear the first born ...and why have they never mentioned that Jesus had a sister and for whatever reason no records of her existence has remained.

Actually the differences would have been much less than we modern humans will believe.
Take the Sumerians (where so much of the bible came from) ...they were extremely sophisticated and we know so much about them because the wrote things down. If you examine them you find their civilization gave us pretty well everything..including the bible and the stories therein.
You should study them as you can see where your god came from...really interesting..but I won't spoil the ending for you.

Writhing was by this time not new at all...your approach is not being honest. Think of the civilizations who had existed and used writhing...any come to mind..and yet this amazing story of a man beating death does not get recorded at the time is simply an indication that the event never happened...add to that the Suns deal of "dieing" and resurrection three days later indicates it's made up...perhaps add the parrallel for birth of the Sun and birth of Jesus..the date...the star the three kings...do you know what I am talking about? I bet you don't and yet those hints further confirm that we are dealing with a myth.

Sure 20 years, 30 years later let's rush out and write it down...but not at the time..no printing press that's it..did you know the Summarians could copy a clay tablet to circulate an idea or message ... they were very clever.
Look I know you want to believe the party line but the reason why it was all written after the event is more logically explained under "the Romans did it" story. No matter how you try to offer reasons why it was not big news you can not offer anything mildly credible ... and probably the main reason it was not news is because such a claim attached to numerous human god prior to ...

Hmmmm funny the Jews never saw Jesus as the one prophesy in their bible spoke about...how do you explain that? They probably were well aware later it was a Roman invention. I am afraid you just can not push aside the fact that the death and resurrection failed to be instant big news.

Pretty hard to produce records on an invented event until much later just as the Romans did to create their myth based in astrology.
Can you not see the perfect parrallel between all the human gods and the Sun..it damn easy if you care to look.

Perhaps? You still have nothing but wishful thinking grasping at perhaps and possibilities that have no support in reality.

Remember these were written by the Romans and there evidence in support is overwhelming.

Interesting ... the three kings no doubt.

Which proves what exactly?

Prophecies is like making your own shoes...

Sure no tv but stuff got around and the fact remains the event you claim did not get around suggesting it never happened.

Anyways a nice post and I can see that you are trying to be the man christianity expects or rather what the Romans wanted of their controlled subjects. Your faith will carry you through all my inconvenient observations no doubt but if you study the history you will enjoy it...what I find perplexing is how the Sumerians seemed to almost appear out of no where and their many stories etc.
Have a great day. You may have to work hard on this post as I have no time to edit and a spell checker that likes to re write much of my stuff.
Alex

I am interested in learning about the Sumerians.
I know zero about them at the moment.

Any sources of information you could direct me to?

Thanks, Alex!

 

[paddoboy]

Hey, Thanks!

You're not making much sense, but hey, I understand, this methodology is constantly used by creationists and their ilk.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

I am surprised you can't find more given science weeds out hoaxes. Hoaxes are not limited to archeology..there are scientists who have faked data and all of them have been caught..every single one..else show me one that has not been caught.

Yes, there are Scientific Hoaxes aplenty...

One of the many current deceptions is the creation of the fairytale of the Multiverse, to expressly try and make the absolutely impossible seem less impossible, even probable!

It is yet another Scientific article of wishful, totally blind faith, without a shred of empirical evidence for it. It is completely made up!

But it is the cool new kid on the block and it will be pounded into the minds of our children until they accept it as fact. Even though it is a complete imaginary fabrication. This is already happening.

Got any evidence for the Multiverse?

And yes indeed, there are also a TON of Hoaxes, lies, abuses, frauds, and on and on it goes in Religion.

The “Roman” Catholic Church, for only one, as I have said in the past, is, in my opinion, a wicked institution.

The authorities in the church are, not always, but very often corrupt, however the Catholic people can be pretty great!

Tag, your it!

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

I am interested in learning about the Sumerians.
I know zero about them at the moment.

Any sources of information you could direct me to?

Thanks, Alex!

I suggest YouTube but you may have to go through some strange stuff ..I can not recall a particu.ar video that describes the culture such that I could suggest a particular one as an introduction..just put it in the search and take a quick look.
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

it will be pounded into the minds of our children until they accept it as fact.

I hate it when that happens.

Got any evidence for the Multiverse?

Which one?

The “Roman” Catholic Church, for only one, as I have said in the past, is, in my opinion, a wicked institution.

Well they were christianity for a long time...I can't point to anything they do or have done that entitles me to say that in so far as I have no factual references..I don't think it would take one too long to assemble a list of bad things but I can't be bothered...I think one could poke holes in their saint thing from the little I have heard...what makes you think it is a wicked institution?

You did not comment on the whale story.

Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

One of the many current deceptions is the creation of the fairytale of the Multiverse, to expressly try and make the absolutely impossible seem less impossible, even probable!

What do you refer to ..what absolutely impossible?
I don't know that the multiverse is a scientific theory but I think it is an expectation from the theory of Inflation.. I don't know enough to comment really.
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Here is an interesting video... that will have both atheists and theists really thinking.

Alex

 

[(Q)]

How about this Scientific Hoax that was Peer Reviewed and eagerly used by the Scientific community to deceive people for decades?

Yes they did eventually figure it out, so they were deceived. But they eagerly chose to be deceived, because it gave them evidence for their religion.

Scientific evidence did not have to be real to be used to spread the faith at all.

And, with not an ounce of honesty in your bones, you continue to spew lies. No, the scientific community was not deceived nor were they convinced, which led to unveiling of the hoax, but you're too stupid and dishonest to realize that. No, they didn't eagerly choose to be deceived, they continued questioning and examining the evidence until they were satisfied it was a hoax, but you're a piece of shit liar who wouldn't know the first thing about honesty and integrity so you'll eagerly make up lies in order to protect your faith.

 

[(Q)]

Yes, there are Scientific Hoaxes aplenty...

That is a lie, you are a liar and a fraud.

One of the many current deceptions is the creation of the fairytale of the Multiverse, to expressly try and make the absolutely impossible seem less impossible, even probable!

That is a hypothetical theory and is not touted as fact, liar.

It is yet another Scientific article of wishful, totally blind faith, without a shred of empirical evidence for it. It is completely made up!

No, it isn't made up but you're too stupid to understand that.

But it is the cool new kid on the block and it will be pounded into the minds of our children until they accept it as fact. Even though it is a complete imaginary fabrication. This is already happening.

You are a piece of shit liar. That is not happening at all.

And yes indeed, there are also a TON of Hoaxes, lies, abuses, frauds, and on and on it goes in Religion.

The “Roman” Catholic Church, for only one, as I have said in the past, is, in my opinion, a wicked institution.

The authorities in the church are, not always, but very often corrupt, however the Catholic people can be pretty great!

Yes, religions are based on lies, frauds and abuses, the first true thing you've said here yet. If you are Catholic, you are not one of the great ones, you are a pathetic liar.[/QUOTE]