This woman is awesome

While I lived in Eureka Springs, Arkansas never once did I lock the front door to my cottage. The woman I rented from used to teach her two young grand-daughters how to shoot in the back yard. Many but not all in that small little town owned a rifle or gun. I felt safer there than I have anywhere. A friend of mine in Snohomish, Washington owns several guns and she has said on many occasions that there is a deep respect among members of the community because only the crazy would attempt to harm or steal from another. I think the debate about gun ownership should center around responsible use, storage and accessability. Criminals don't buy guns legally and are not thwarted by gun ownership laws, yet the average citizen concerned about self-protection has to jump through hoops or isn't allowed to legally buy a gun.
 
The situation for us-knows-us in Armpitsville is radically different than crowded multiracial metropoles where is less social control, therefor I think one should have different regulations for rural and suburb areas.

I mean how many crazy competing crackselling gangs do you have in Eureka springs to worry about them posessing guns and getting caught in the crossfire?

BTW: you think an armed soceity like afghanistan or iraq is also a polite soceity ? Guns can serve a purpose, but not without social control and good leadership
 
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I have a sign on my front window..."these premises protected by Smith and Wesson".That usually does the trick.
 
Vortexx

They had drugs in Eureka. The areas main problem was the manufacturing of methamphetamines. Sure cities are different than rural areas, I live in NY, but gun laws do not prevent drug dealers from purchasing guns only those who want to protect themselves from those who would infringe on their safety. You cannot compare a country like Afghanistan or Iraq that is engaged in actual warfare to crime in 'polite' society. Why shouldn't I have the right to defend myself against some fucker who forces their way into my home to do harm?
 
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She needs to spend some time at the gun range. That way the next time it won't take two guns to hit him and he won't live to tell the tale.
 
Xev

An armed society is a polite society
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That is a broad based statement supported by a single "ideal" incident..

But I agree, that woman is one cool customer.
 
Well Xev, that was a good story, I live in a big city Houston Tx. I see this kind of stories on the news, one in particular I recall the burglar, was killed, and the burglar was the X-husband of the guy's now wife. Aint that particular. That stuck in my mind since I mostly go out with older women who are divorcee. :)

Godless.
 
Xev:

An armed society is a polite society.
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Only if they can shoot...

From your link:

When she emptied one gun, she still hadn't hit him. And he wasn't gone.
___________________________________

She went to get another gun -- "I like to be prepared," she said -- and waited to see his next move. After tearing up the garage, he finally broke out through a garage window, but he veered toward Lisle's front door. She fired again, hitting him at least once.
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LMAO... Oh that's a classic. Brilliant article Xev.

"He was like a mosquito hitting the window. Every time he turned around, poweee," she said.
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hehehehe..

I must say my favourite part of this article was this:
The bleeding intruder ran across the street and tried to hot-wire a motorcycle, but its owners, already armed to come to Lisle's aid, chased off the would-be thief, she said.

She said one of the men yelled after the retreating burglar: "And that's just our womenfolk."
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Wipes tears of laughter from eyes..
 
Lucysnow said:
yet the average citizen concerned about self-protection has to jump through hoops or isn't allowed to legally buy a gun.
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What do you mean by average citizen? And what do you mean by self-protect? Are you talking about a situation when someone is aiming a gun at me and I'm supposed to draw my gun faster than him to shoot him first? Can you define yourself please? I'm pretty hot blooded...do you suggest that I carry my gun to work to settle out my differences, how about during rush hour commute, it can sure come in handy, and when my neighbor's dog pee and poop in my yard despite of my warning...should I shoot the neighbor for defying me? How about the immature kid around the corner who likes to vandalize the neighborhood and break in cars every now and then, should I shoot him as well?
 
It's all about intent Flores... intent and deniability.

You only shoot at other people who might have guns.

The kid breaking into your car, you can just beat with a baseball bat.

The dog you run over with your car.

The guy who cuts you off in traffic? Just let it go, you don't want other people shooting at you on the highway. Either that or piss them off in traffic and then lure them to a secluded parking lot - see? It's easy!
 
BigBlueHead said:
It's all about intent Flores... intent and deniability.

You only shoot at other people who might have guns.
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But how would I know they have guns unless they show them to me, and at that point, shouldn't I be better saved listening to the mad man who only cares for cheapo jewlery and some cash, rather than risk paying with my life.

BigBlueHead said:
The kid breaking into your car, you can just beat with a baseball bat.
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Or I can call the police and let them handle it.....Put my tax money into a good use.


BigBlueHead said:
The dog you run over with your car.
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Or I can call the county community standard division and have them fine the dude, or even call animal control to pick up stray dog....Again, put my tax money into a good use a benefit the neighborhood without getting my beautifull hands dirty.



BigBlueHead said:
The guy who cuts you off in traffic? Just let it go, you don't want other people shooting at you on the highway. Either that or piss them off in traffic and then lure them to a secluded parking lot - see? It's easy!
Click to expand...

Their I agree, I usually let those go, only to find them pulled over on the side a couple of miles later....That makes me happy and put my tax money into a good use.
 
Flores said:
shouldn't I be better saved listening to the mad man who only cares for cheapo jewlery and some cash, rather than risk paying with my life.
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Eh... anyone who carries a weapon to aid their negotiation is a danger, and submitting to their will doesn't make them less dangerous. There have been documented cases where criminals tied up their victims and then killed them when they were helpless, which sorta takes away the logical angle.

In addition, most people can't shrug off the fear they feel after their house was broken into, even if they weren't there when it happened. Is it just "better" to feel as though your life will be broken up periodically by people with weapons? They're not just taking your money.

Also, the last time I saw a snarling, feral dog in my neighborhood, I called animal control and they told me they were closed on the weekend. They advised me to (get this) "try to confine the animal until Monday". Now, we're talking about a sixty-pound wild dog that spooked when I got within five meters of it, and they wanted me to come back with, I dunno, a big net or something and trap it so that I could keep it in my garage for a day and a half. Not only were they unable to help, they also dispensed extremely bad advice with regard to dealing with stray dogs.

In general the "authorities" are not in much of a position to protect you most of the time. At the best of times, that is, when you are a block away from a police station, the police will take at least fifteen minutes to arrive. This is long enough for a crazy person to hang you up by your wrists and gut you, and possibly also arrange your intestines on the ground to say something insulting.

Now, it could be argued that it's the good will of your fellow man that protects us at all, and that going armed constitutes an abrogation of that good will. This is, in fact, how I feel.

However, when people begin to threaten my safety, the "social contract" argument starts to sound extremely weak. As soon as someone breaks into your house, that also constitutes an extreme abrogation of good will, and we should not be surprised if an angry homeowner cheerfully garottes the home invader, or shoots them full of holes.
 
Only if they can shoot...
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Good point.
I vividly remember my first lesson in gun safety - my mom taught me how to load and aim her Ruger.
"Now remember, when handling a gun you want to always treat it as if it was loaded, even if you're sure it's not. Now, it's unloaded now so I want you to aim it at that point on the wall just to see what - "
She accidentally fires it at the wall.
"Well, see that right there is why you always want to act like it is loaded."

BigBlueHead:
Good points.
In general the "authorities" are not in much of a position to protect you most of the time. At the best of times, that is, when you are a block away from a police station, the police will take at least fifteen minutes to arrive. This is long enough for a crazy person to hang you up by your wrists and gut you, and possibly also arrange your intestines on the ground to say something insulting.
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And that's even assuming that you can get to the phone to call the authorities, and that they will adequetely protect you. The latter is quite unreliable.
About ten, fifteen years back near my town we had an incident that illustrates this. This woman broke up with her psycho boyfriend, a couple days later he breaks into her house.
She calls the cops, when they get there he's holding a knife to her throat.
The cops try to talk him down, get him to drop it peacefully. It doesn't work until one (female) officer gives up, shoots him in the shoulder and then in the chest as the girl gets away.
The cop who shot him was almost disciplined for using "excessive force" rather than trying to talk reason to a dangerous psychopath.
Mushy liberalism and the fear of lawsuits is taking away their ability to protect us effectively.

Bottom line is that personal defense is and always will be the primary responsibility of the individual.
Although I've always felt that we should make some training in personal defense and gun safety a requirement for every citizen.

-Edit to add-
In all the debate about the second amendment, what's usually forgotten is the function of the second amendment. A well trained, civilian militia was seen as necessary for national defense. Eventually the changing nature of warfare has made this more or less an obsolete consideration, but for internal defense it is still a relevent issue.
 
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BigBlueHead said:
Now, it could be argued that it's the good will of your fellow man that protects us at all, and that going armed constitutes an abrogation of that good will. This is, in fact, how I feel.

However, when people begin to threaten my safety, the "social contract" argument starts to sound extremely weak. As soon as someone breaks into your house, that also constitutes an extreme abrogation of good will, and we should not be surprised if an angry homeowner cheerfully garottes the home invader, or shoots them full of holes.
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Tell that to the poor Japanease student who wanted to trick and treat in Halloween the joyfull American way and ended up being real killed the American way.

Good points blue, but very pessimistic approach, I'll have to start calling this approach the "Bush plan to instill fear in us to implement the republican agenda".

Blue, who is their to monitor that the guy you killed in your home was not an innocent vaccume salesman, a pizza boy, a home owner association member, or a framed boyfriend or girlfriend that pissed you off in the past and you decided to lure them back in your home just to kill them in the name of self defence.......?

Playing the fear chord to justify something as serious as arming our civil for a rule to protect their own property undermines every order that exist in this country and places many innocent lives at a huge risk. I have to say that I'm more scared of an overall armed society than I'm scared of the statiscally low crime rate. Deadly weapons are called such for a good reason and shouldn't be trusted in the hands of civilians because believe it or not, criminals are also civilians.
 
My impending death looms closer each day, but that's not enough of a reason to fear it. Similarly, I don't believe that I should live my life in fear of becoming the victim of violent crime. There are, however, certain admissions I am willing to make for myself.

I would generally follow the advice of the police when it comes to home security, since I've seen people's houses broken into a few too many times to dismiss it as "statistically unlikely".

On the other hand, I would think twice before trying to handle a big, wild dog on the advice of the animal control hotline.

The local administration is not perfect and I'm unwilling to rely on them when it comes to my own safety. There are certain baseline considerations I can assume - probably no one will be driving by and shooting up my house - but my safety is much more in my own hands than those of other people.

Furthermore, a slight distrust of one's surroundings will also aid in non-malicious situations that are nonetheless unhealthy... if my house catches on fire, it doesn't matter why, the important part is to get out. If someone breaks into my house, I'm generally not willing to presume upon the innocence of their actions. A wise housebreaker runs away at the first sign of an inhabitant, whether they are innocent or not.
 
FLORES


Q:What do you mean by average citizen?

Just that the average joe blow who doesn't have a criminal record or has just been released from a psych unit.

Q:And what do you mean by self-protect?

I mean just that, having a firearm as home security, packing hot iron in my handbag.

Q:Are you talking about a situation when someone is aiming a gun at me and I'm supposed to draw my gun faster than him to shoot him first?

Well if they are aiming a gun at you its a little too late isn't it. If someone is aiming a gun at you and you try to draw its a shootout and wholly dependent on who has the fastest draw. If I am laying in bed and someone has broken into my house and I yell out that I am armed and fire a warning shot, the person would be crazy not to leave (in which case one should aim to wound or kill). If its my hypothetical husband returning home then he better talk fast and loud!

Q:Can you define yourself please?

I just have.

Q:I'm pretty hot blooded...do you suggest that I carry my gun to work to settle out my differences, how about during rush hour commute, it can sure come in handy, and when my neighbor's dog pee and poop in my yard despite of my warning...should I shoot the neighbor for defying me? How about the immature kid around the corner who likes to vandalize the neighborhood and break in cars every now and then, should I shoot him as well?

Don't be a flaming idiot please, you can do better than that.
 
BigBlueHead said:
The guy who cuts you off in traffic? Just let it go, you don't want other people shooting at you on the highway. Either that or piss them off in traffic and then lure them to a secluded parking lot - see? It's easy!
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It's funny you should mention that BigBlue. A couple of months ago I was driving my car back from the mechanic's after having quite a bit of work done on the damn thing. I had been warned by the mechanic not to 'floor it' until all had been worked in properly. So of course driving back from the mechanic in peak hour traffic, I was just letting the car drive without my hooning it. I'd stopped at an intersection and had to turn into the on-coming traffic, which was heavy and was waiting for a break in traffic which would allow me to turn without my having to floor it. Unfortunately the two men in the car behind me took offence to this and started honking the horn. I ignored them thinking that they didn't know that I couldn't just jam the accelerator down to merge with the fast traffic, they didn't know what my mechanic had told me just 5 minutes before. I finally managed to turn, after only a 2 minute wait at the intersection and had stopped at a set of lights. Next thing I know the two dickheads had pulled up along side me and were hurling abuse at me through the window. So being the polite person that I am, I gave them the finger. It seems that I had offended the gentlemen further and they both jumped out of the car. I was already dialing the police lol, which thankfully for me were just around the corner. My dad had long ago placed a piece of 4X4 under my seat, as he'd told me, "it's always good to have something to whack someone if they come at you". Now one of the gentlemen had popped open the boot while the other one was trying to open my by then locked door, all the while calling me a flurry of names. I had reached under my seat and pulled out the 4x4 and was scrambling over to the passenger seat, in a bid to jump out and whack if need be. Thankfully some other people in the cars in front of me and behind me had also jumped out of their cars and were coming to my help. The other twit was still rummaging in his boot as his friend was pounding on my window telling me to open up so that he could teach me "a lesson only a bitch like me would understand".

The police arrived at that time and both were arrested. They then looked in the boot of their car and found a sawn off shot-gun. Other police arrived and both were taken away and I was questioned, along with the other people who had come to help. I was allowed to go home thinking 'holy shit :confused:'. I was later contacted by the police prosecutor, who is actually an acquaintance, and was told that both of the dicks had actually been out on bail at the time the "incident" occured, and were now back in jail, with no chance of bail this time. I'm told that there's no chance for release for the next 5 years lol. They are of course facing further charges now, thanks to their stupidity.

Now I think to myself, had I had a gun, would I have used it? I have no idea. There were so many people around that I could have injured or killed anyone of them (I think of the lady in Xev's article, who'd emptied two guns and only hit him once, the rest went god knows where). I had a big piece of wood and I would have used that for sure. But even in that situation, I don't know if I'd have used the gun. Had the moron actually found his shotty, I'd have stood no chance either way, gun or no gun on my part. The gun laws in Australia are in place to prevent people like the two morons I came into contact with, from owning a gun. Obviously it failed in their case. But the law is also in place to prevent me from owning a gun, and personally I agree with that law. Otherwise, if we were all allowed to own a gun, we would be witness to shootouts in any given situation. Very naive of me, I know, but personally, I feel much safer knowing that my neighbour is probably not armed... I hope. Had we all been armed that day, the people who'd gotten out of their car to come to my aid, myself, the two twits, it could easily have resulted in a true bloodbath with bullets flying off in all directions, with god knows how many people being hit. Thankfully the mornon's car had too much stuff in his boot to prevent him from finding his shotgun, thankfully the police were just around the corner and were able to get there quickly. Now I know, if in such a situation again, just ignore them. Had I not given them the finger, they'd have probably just abused me some more for not flooring it and would have driven off. But who really knows. What I do know is that I'm glad we weren't all armed.

Xev

When I was little, my dad used to go hunting quite a bit. I used to sit there and watch him as he cleaned it, and one day, after making doubly sure it was unloaded, he let me hold it and tried to show me how to aim it properly. Damn thing was so heavy that I fell over backwards.. lol. Being the caring father, he grabbed the gun and let me fall, in case I dropped the gun and damaged it. I ended up with a bump on my head but his gun was fine :rolleyes:. But from an early age, my father had taught me how to clean a gun and how to make sure it was unloaded. I never knew where he kept the bullets and the gun was always locked up, only to be taken out when he went hunting. I guess he wanted to make sure that I avoided hurting myself and others if I were ever found a gun and he was not there. Even when he thought someone was breaking into the house once, he didn't take out the gun but instead took out a big stick. It's strange now that I think about it. He criticises others for teaching their child how to use a gun, but he did the same to me when I was little. His excuse is that times are different now and children are different now, to what they were back then.


:eek:
 
There is a big difference between personal preference and supporting a legal mandate.
I don't own a gun.
I wouldn't want to legally ban all weapons, however.
I have met people that use their guns solely for hunting, and not sport hunting (I don't condone that), hunting as a major source of for food for their family to eat.
I couldn't possibly support a ban on a family's right to hunt for their food and live off the land.
But, by banning all weapons, that is what you would be doing.
Also, what about the single woman living way out in the middle of nowhere that wants simple effective protection from would-be attackers?
I wouldn't condemn her either.
I see no problem at all for a person to collect antique guns and other weapons (some of them are exquisute works of art).

I DO, however, have a problem with someone owning an automatic weapon, a sub-machine gun, an assault rifle...
Pretty much any operational weapon designed for warfare.

There is not much that is as important to me as freedom, and freedom, of course, should come with responsibility.
You want to own a handgun or hunting rifle?
Sure, fill out this background check form, wait three weeks, get fingerprinted, get a ballistics report on file (some places, like the county I grew up in, require that you fire your weapon into a tank of water, they make a ballistics report and keep that bullet on file for every gun you own) AND show proof that you have taken a gun operations, maintenance and safety course (paid for by the applicant) that was designed specifcally for your weapon (including a shooting class).
Then, after you have satisfied all that, take your gun and use it responsibly and legally within the reasonably designed gun control laws (such as trigger locks, requiring ammunition to be stored in a seperate locked container while travelling, not using in areas not designated for hunting or target practice etc).

If you get caught with an illegal gun...
5 years in jail, no questions asked.

Plus, I love the passion laws that some places have instituted.
Something along the lines of:
If you brandish your gun in anger, you automatically lose your license and get 6 months in jail.
If you fire your gun in anger, loss of license and at least 2 years in jail.
If you fire your gun towards or at someone in anger, tack on another 3 years.
If you shoot someone in anger, 20 years minumum.

Reasonable guns should not be illegal.
Irresponsible behavior should.
 
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