The truth about the rapture

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witnessjudgejury

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According to the bible, Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father until ALL things are put under his feet. This means he will not stand up in the middle of the tribulation (when nothing yet has been put under his feet) and rapture the church of people who simply believe in him.

Any thoughts?

I have tons more revelations for you.
 
witnessjudgejury said:
According to the bible, Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father until ALL things are put under his feet. This means he will not stand up in the middle of the tribulation (when nothing yet has been put under his feet) and rapture the church of people who simply believe in him.

Any thoughts?

I have tons more revelations for you.
Click to expand...

Hello witnessjudgejury :)

1 corinthians 15
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

See how the putting under His feet comes after Jesus second coming in mentioned. Jesus is not waiting for the world to submit to Him before He comes. Jesus will come and cause all the nations to submit to Him. Jesus will establish His kingdom.

Revelation 19 reveals this: Remember Jesus is THE Word Of God

Revelation 19
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.


17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”
19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

You can see at the time of His return the armies of the nations will be amassed against Jesus. It is Jesus who will smash them and remove resistance to His rule.


AS for the rapture:

1 Corrinthians15:
49And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

Here Paul is saying that as we inhabit earthly bodies derived from dust so shall we inhabit new bodies changed and not made of dust. Paul goes on to explain why:


50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

So the bodies that we inhabit cannot enter the Kingdom of God and also "corruption" dead bodies must also be changed also. Then Paul reveals a mystery:


51Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

So Paul is saying that "we shall not all sleep" now I hope you agree that he is talking about physical death here? Paul is saying not everyone will experience physical death. He goes on to say that "we shall all be changed" both the dead and the living "in a moment", now at this point it could be argued that both the dead and the living could be changed in a moment in time, but at different times. That is to say the moment is only referring to the time it takes to change, not at the same moment. But we read on and Paul states the moment will be. "in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet." So not only shall both the living and the dead be changed to inherit the Kingdom of God But they will both change at the same moment, at the last trumpet. As He goes on to say "For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." Paul goes on to explain it in more detail:


53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory.

So here again we see Paul referring to the two states of being that the saints will be in at the time of the 1st Resurrection/Rapture "So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality," Dead saints and living saints caught up together in a twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet.

So from what I have read the first resurrection and the rapture (although different experiences for them that take part) will happen at the same instant in time at the last trumpet.

So now we go on to the next scripture:


Revelation 10
7but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.

Now the sounding of the seventh Angel is the last of a series of seven trumpets in Revelation. Note that the scripture says the "Mystery of God would be finished" now the coming of the Messiah has been described by scripture at a coming in the sky (a darkened sky) and all people will see Him. Now after this event there will be on ifs or buts about the Mystery of God because all will see that God is and who He is. Everyone will know from that moment on, there will be no Mystery left. As for the darkening of the sky this is described as happening beforehand on the sounding of the forth trumpet:


Revelation 8
12 Then the fourth angel sounded: And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened. A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Apocalyptic nonsense.
Belief is not the aim of Jesus' teaching, but personal realization of God within you.
 
The "Rapture" is also accompanied by a huge ressurection.

1 thes 4:16-17

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD in Christ SHALL RISE FIRST:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up ( this is the "rapture" right? )together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Then..

as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. --Matt. 24: 27

This "rapture" that is spoken of, isn't far from the actual coming of the Lord himself. If you're on good standing with Him you won't be on the earth when he get's here.... you'll be in the air, descending with him.
 
The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that
you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the
end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning;
he will know the end and will not experience death."


His disciples said to Him, "When will the repose of the dead
come about, and when will the new world come?"
He said to them, "What you look forward to has already come,
but you do not recognize it."
 
spidergoat said:
The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that
you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the
end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning;
he will know the end and will not experience death."


His disciples said to Him, "When will the repose of the dead
come about, and when will the new world come?"
He said to them, "What you look forward to has already come,
but you do not recognize it."
Click to expand...

What are the references for these quotes?
 
witnessjudgejury said:
According to the bible, Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father until ALL things are put under his feet. This means he will not stand up in the middle of the tribulation (when nothing yet has been put under his feet) and rapture the church of people who simply believe in him.

Any thoughts?

I have tons more revelations for you.
Click to expand...

That is right, Jesus himself does not harvest/rapture the church, but when he comes it is at the end.
 
spidergoat said:
The Gospel of Thomas, from Oxyrhynchus Papyri c. 200 and also Codex II of the Nag Hammadi texts
vs. 18, vs. 51
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/thomas.htm
Click to expand...

Those quotes are distortions of the other three gospels text. I am looking at the text and it is as if they are talking about the same event, specifically the sermon at the Mount of Olives where the disciples ask when they can expect the end, not how their end will be. You see what I mean, there are slight differences that change the whole meaning, it is as if someone misinterpreted something. And since we have three consistent translations, we have a base line to judge other text like the Gospel of Thomas.

It is a very odd discrepancy that if we were talking about math or another subject I would tell Thomas or the translator to go back and try to remember the rule as it was.

At this point, I am very critical of the Gospel of Thomas because of established consistencies of the other three accounts. If you hear a rumor told the same by three witnesses and a fourth witness contradicts the other three, who is the liar?
http://www.everystudent.com/features/bible.html#7

It is also disturbing to find that the Gospel of Thomas is referenced by Muhammed in the Quran. I didn't know that.
 
There are two translations of the Gospel of Thomas, and rather than describing an event, it is a collection of the sayings of Jesus, so historical accuracy is not our primary concern. We are more concerned with the meanings of the sayings. Certainly heresy-hunters of the early church did much to destroy anything that seemed gnostic, so these would be rarer. That this is the misinterpretation is a matter of opinion. I happen to think all the scriptures are rather heavy in interpretation, and every translator added to this.

If this was math, I would agree to go with the popular result, but since this is religion, I tend to think less rather than more people "got it". In the end, it is internal evidence that determines the worth of these sayings.

I find this reason for trusting some gospels and not others much more disturbing:
3) false books and false teachings were always challenging the church and leadership needed to be clear.

So, it wasn't just spiritual truth, but political power that motivated the church. The people the church often considered heretics often came out of those same churches, and they didn't think their own views were heretical at all, indeed, they felt that the views that came to be known as orthodox were in fact the heretical ones. I don't understand why leadership needed to be clear. Why was any leadership needed at all? Perhaps this need for one doctrine actually destroyed the truth.
 
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