Well, they're already experimenting on interned children.
The Trump Presidency
- Thread starter joepistole
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Well, they're already experimenting on interned children.
no... surely not?
#AmericanAtrocity | #WhatTheyVotedFor
There is no way what is described accords with any reasonable therapeutic protocol.
President Donald Trump's zero tolerance policy is creating a zombie army of children forcibly injected with medications that make them dizzy, listless, obese and even incapacitated, according to legal filings that show immigrant children in U.S. custody subdued with powerful psychiatric drugs.
Children held at Shiloh Treatment Center, a government contractor south of Houston that houses immigrant minors, described being held down and injected, according to the federal court filings. The lawsuit alleges that children were told they would not be released or see their parents unless they took medication and that they only were receiving vitamins.
Parents and the children themselves told attorneys the drugs rendered them unable to walk, afraid of people and wanting to sleep constantly, according to affidavits filed April 23 in U.S. District Court in California.
One mother said her child fell repeatedly, hitting her head, and ended up in a wheelchair. A child described trying to open a window and being hurled against a door by a Shiloh supervisor, who then choked her until she fainted.
“The supervisor told me I was going to get a medication injection to calm me down,” the girl said. “Two staff grabbed me, and the doctor gave me the injection despite my objection and left me there on the bed.”
Another child recounted being made to take pills in the morning, at noon and night. The child said “the staff told me that some of the pills are vitamins because they think I need to gain weight. The vitamins changed about two times, and each time I feel different.”
(Smith and Bogado↱)
Children held at Shiloh Treatment Center, a government contractor south of Houston that houses immigrant minors, described being held down and injected, according to the federal court filings. The lawsuit alleges that children were told they would not be released or see their parents unless they took medication and that they only were receiving vitamins.
Parents and the children themselves told attorneys the drugs rendered them unable to walk, afraid of people and wanting to sleep constantly, according to affidavits filed April 23 in U.S. District Court in California.
One mother said her child fell repeatedly, hitting her head, and ended up in a wheelchair. A child described trying to open a window and being hurled against a door by a Shiloh supervisor, who then choked her until she fainted.
“The supervisor told me I was going to get a medication injection to calm me down,” the girl said. “Two staff grabbed me, and the doctor gave me the injection despite my objection and left me there on the bed.”
Another child recounted being made to take pills in the morning, at noon and night. The child said “the staff told me that some of the pills are vitamins because they think I need to gain weight. The vitamins changed about two times, and each time I feel different.”
(Smith and Bogado↱)
The case is Flores v. Sessions↱, U.S. District Court Central District of California Western Division.
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Notes:
Holguin, Carlos, et al. "420 2 Exhibit Vol 2, Exs 21 30, Pages 109 73 (Redacted)". Flores et al. v. Sessions et al. United States District Court Central District of California Western Division. 23 April 2018. DocumentCloud.org. 20 June 2018. http://bit.ly/2MbtBmB
Smith, Matt and Aura Bogado. "Immigrant children forcibly injected with drugs, lawsuit claims". Reveal. 20 June 2018. RevealNews.org. 20 June 2018. http://bit.ly/2MbtBmB
and in the name of every USA citizen... incredible!#AmericanAtrocity | #WhatTheyVotedFor
There is no way what is described accords with any reasonable therapeutic protocol.
President Donald Trump's zero tolerance policy is creating a zombie army of children forcibly injected with medications that make them dizzy, listless, obese and even incapacitated, according to legal filings that show immigrant children in U.S. custody subdued with powerful psychiatric drugs.
Children held at Shiloh Treatment Center, a government contractor south of Houston that houses immigrant minors, described being held down and injected, according to the federal court filings. The lawsuit alleges that children were told they would not be released or see their parents unless they took medication and that they only were receiving vitamins.
Parents and the children themselves told attorneys the drugs rendered them unable to walk, afraid of people and wanting to sleep constantly, according to affidavits filed April 23 in U.S. District Court in California.
One mother said her child fell repeatedly, hitting her head, and ended up in a wheelchair. A child described trying to open a window and being hurled against a door by a Shiloh supervisor, who then choked her until she fainted.
“The supervisor told me I was going to get a medication injection to calm me down,” the girl said. “Two staff grabbed me, and the doctor gave me the injection despite my objection and left me there on the bed.”
Another child recounted being made to take pills in the morning, at noon and night. The child said “the staff told me that some of the pills are vitamins because they think I need to gain weight. The vitamins changed about two times, and each time I feel different.”
(Smith and Bogado↱)
The case is Flores v. Sessions↱, U.S. District Court Central District of California Western Division.
____________________
Notes:
Holguin, Carlos, et al. "420 2 Exhibit Vol 2, Exs 21 30, Pages 109 73 (Redacted)". Flores et al. v. Sessions et al. United States District Court Central District of California Western Division. 23 April 2018. DocumentCloud.org. 20 June 2018. http://bit.ly/2MbtBmB
Smith, Matt and Aura Bogado. "Immigrant children forcibly injected with drugs, lawsuit claims". Reveal. 20 June 2018. RevealNews.org. 20 June 2018. http://bit.ly/2MbtBmB
Oh I understand that there is much opposition to it all but from the global perspective this is what elected representatives of the USA people are doing to kids.
I hear , on the grape vine, even Trumps announcement of an order to stop the removal of kids from their parents has a hidden agenda, with the apparent changes to the way the refugees are treated under law. From civil to criminal, which in turn means that once convicted the children will be removed any how. He then seeks to expedite the conviction process.
src is 3 rd party to the interned refugees/asylum seekers advocates in Nauru held by the Australian Government which is almost equally as abhorrent.
If true, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, Trumps roll back is actually a people pleasing doubling down...a shifty way to confuse popular opposition.
Also reported by The Hill:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...es-drugs-were-administered-to-children-at-the
But it's just allegations.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...es-drugs-were-administered-to-children-at-the
But it's just allegations.
Further , if Trump had not removed the USA from the UN Human Rights Council he would have been pressured by the UNHRC to consider building and maintaining refugee/asylum seeker camps/detention facilities with the appropriate procedures that offer due process under international law..
Basically he is refusing to accept that the USA is a part of the global dilemma of the mass "migration" of people effecting the world generally. He seeks to somehow insulate the USA from what is most likely going to amount to a flood of massive proportions across the Southern border.
Prediction:
Other than the mass slaughter of 10's of thousands of migrating people he will fail unless he rejoins the UN to actively find a global solution.
The isolation that Trump is attempting to achieve will come at a huge cost to the whole of the USA
The UN itself is failing to grasp the enormity of what appears to be trending regards the migration of peoples towards regions of relative wealth.
Nations of wealth are and will be facing the need to spend most of their apparent wealth in securing their borders and supporting refugee camps.
Basically he is refusing to accept that the USA is a part of the global dilemma of the mass "migration" of people effecting the world generally. He seeks to somehow insulate the USA from what is most likely going to amount to a flood of massive proportions across the Southern border.
Prediction:
Other than the mass slaughter of 10's of thousands of migrating people he will fail unless he rejoins the UN to actively find a global solution.
The isolation that Trump is attempting to achieve will come at a huge cost to the whole of the USA
The UN itself is failing to grasp the enormity of what appears to be trending regards the migration of peoples towards regions of relative wealth.
Nations of wealth are and will be facing the need to spend most of their apparent wealth in securing their borders and supporting refugee camps.
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Bells
Staff member
It is their way of making America great again..
And no one expected this level of depravity.
I don't think anyone expected him to not go low, but for him to have gone this low is beyond the imagination of everyone really.
It gets worse. The Executive Order he signed is not retroactive.
An HHS official tells @weijia that there will NOT be special efforts made to reunite children who have already been separated from their families bc of the Zero Tolerance Policy, despite Trumps EO. Process will proceed for minors currently in the unaccompanied children program.
The HHS then tried to clarify that statement by suggesting that they need more guidance on the matter.
But the cat is well out of the bag.
Parents are being deported without their children because the people who kidnapped their children did not keep accurate or proper record of which child belonged to which parent(s).
So let's break it down.
1) The US Government has kidnapped close to 2,500 children in 6 weeks.
2) Those children were taken without their parents consent and sent across the country to various detention facilities, where they have no contact with their family and their family do not know where they are. Often, the family are told their children are being taken for a shower and that is the last time they see their children. By any definition, legal or otherwise, this is kidnapping.
3) The Government has also been drugging these children without their parents consent, as has been alleged in court filings as documented above.
4) The US Government has not been keeping adequate records of which child belongs to which parent, so these children are essentially lost in the system (please not point 2, where the parents do not know where their children have been taken and vice versa).
5) Some people are being deported without their children and they have no actual pathway of getting their children back.
6) The US government has essentially advised they have no intention of doing everything they can to reunite these children with their parents.
Recently, reports circulated that the US Government had lost over 1,400 children, who had crossed the border unaccompanied. Tragically, those reports turned out to be true. the US Government trafficked those children out and have no idea where they now are.
And if people think the US Government has only been doing this for 6 weeks, think again.
The New York Times noted in April 2018 that 700 children, over 100 of them younger than four years old, had been taken from their parents at the border since October 2017.
I suspect the figure of just under 2,500 that has been reported for over the last 6 weeks, is going to balloon out to unimaginable proportions when one realises that this has been going on since last year.
It is safe to say that the US Government is now in the business of child trafficking.
Nonsense. They have no such influence over him, and have demonstrated no such ethical qualms in any other respect.
Mussolini. Not Hitler.
And Trump's family is openly Jewish. Ivanka is a convert, and his mob connections include his inlaws.
All of the bloggers and hangers-on in my crowd have expected this kind of thing, just like this, and worse to come, for many years. It's not even that large a jump, from what we saw - and that was predicted also, years in advance - from W&Cheney.
Recall - for example - that US forces were using threats against detained children and their mothers in Iraqi and Afghan prisons - depraved threats, use your imagination, some of which were carried out - as interrogation techniques. We predicted a return to such policies, and worse, from the next Republican administration if any. We also predicted that at least some of the policies established overseas would be brought on shore, and established in the US. That is one example.
If our predictions and expectations continue to be borne out in practice, and these people are not stopped, this border policy will prove to have been an early step in a progression.
Trump is not new, not surprising, not some weird travesty from out of the blue. This is the Republican Party of the United States, and it has been since Rush Limbaugh first became its central media spokesman, if not before. It has been flagrantly, obviously, perfectly clear what this Party and this political movement is, for three decades. It is (among other characteristics) terminally depraved - there is no bottom, no bedrock of principles, no moral floor below which it will not sink. Waiting for it to hit bottom and break up on its own is capitulation to an indefinite fall. If it is not stopped, it will not stop.
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Trump maybe not be new according to you but globalized news cycles and social media are.
Years ago all this happens with out world attention... today it is very different.
There is an old bit of wisdom:
"Abuse most often only happens under the veil of secrecy."
( eg. Government secrecy regarding Manus and Nauru asylum detention Australia. Guilty!)
In this (your) case the veil of secrecy due to communications limitations (pre-internet/social media) may have allowed abuse of this kind to continue with out check. Now is a very different time. re: the #metoo movement and so on...and the existence of modern mobile camera tech uploading to the web etc.
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well it reads here that Melania Trump may have put here foot down as did Ivanka Trump. ( in private)
not to mention Bush's wife....Laura. ( even Bloomberg has jumped the repub ship, apparently)
As much as you may wish this to remain a republican bogey issue, IMO, it transcends petty party partisanship and more impacts on USA and Western world core values. It needs to be rectified quickly regardless of political allegiances.
Don't worry, Trump and supporters are going to wear it regardless, but it has to be fixed simply on humanitarian grounds.
And you believe that? On what basis?
No, it doesn't. This latest horror, like the previous menu of horrors, is a one-Party operation, from the beginning, and that Party shows no sign of relinquishing its modus operandi or its multi-decadal generation of such "impacts on Western core values" - values it does not share, regardless of its Western status.
It's not about partisanship, this fight. It's about parasitism. What's taken over the Republican Party and made a tool of it is not petty partisanship - it doesn't give a dead rat for the welfare of the Republican Party, or the media it uses, or the citizenry it betrayed long ago.
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very rarely does Melania comment on Trump's policy...
"Mrs. Trump hates to see children separated from their families and hopes both sides of the aisle can finally come together to achieve successful immigration reform," her communications director, Stephanie Grisham, told CNN on Sunday. "She believes we need to be a country that follows all laws, but also a country that governs with heart."
one src: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/17/politics/melania-trump-children-separated-immigration/index.html
Unfortunately not only has Trump deliberately destroyed his relationship with the UNHRC he has in the past destroyed any real productive relationship he may have had with Mexico.
He will need Mexico to find a solution to this current disaster and burning bridges, which is all he seems capable of, is going to cost the USA badly.
Apparently it is not Mexican nationals wanting to cross, so much, but peoples that originate further South crossing through Mexico to get to the USA.
I am sure USA intel would tell them how many are currently mobile and heading North through Mexico. The Mexican buffer zone has been lost, most likely due to Trumps Mexican/USA relationship sabotage.
He will need Mexico to find a solution to this current disaster and burning bridges, which is all he seems capable of, is going to cost the USA badly.
Apparently it is not Mexican nationals wanting to cross, so much, but peoples that originate further South crossing through Mexico to get to the USA.
I am sure USA intel would tell them how many are currently mobile and heading North through Mexico. The Mexican buffer zone has been lost, most likely due to Trumps Mexican/USA relationship sabotage.
Bells
Staff member
She did not demand his policies stop.
She is asking for reform, such as what Trump's policies demand.
It cannot be rectified without defeating the Republican Congress and the Republican White House.
Not unless they are forced to wear it, stuck with it and shackled to it by their enemies - the rest of us. How do you foresee that happening?
The more likely denouement is something resembling the aftermath of Iran-Contra, or the Iraq invasion - concerted media-dominating revision and obfuscation of history, winding up in a fog of bothsides yadda, "the liberals" saddled with a majority of the blame and all of the task of digging out.
Historical note: when the Reagan administration betrayed core Western values, committed treason and outrage, built its seizure of power on a foundation of lies and atrocities, trashed the economy and degraded the honor and wrecked the landscape of the good in America, it was very common to hear the liberals who had been relegated to the sidelines tell each other that at least this time Reagan would have to - as you put it - wear it; even his famously Teflon persona could not possibly escape responsibility (i.e. blame, accountability) for the consequences of stuff he and his administration so publicly did against the clear opposition of the decent and competent.
He didn't have to wear it. Nowdays anyone who simply recounts his deeds and words, describes what he did and when and what happened, has labeled themselves a radical fringe lefty liberal devoted to exaggerations and whining.
H Bush did not have to wear it, either.
And if you check the polls W&Cheney get good ratings these days. They don't have to wear it.
Nicole Wallace was on my TV the other day making fun of Trump's NK video, asking if anyone in her media entourage could imagine making something like that - she was the White House Communications Director for W when video was released of him miming looking under his desk for the missing WMDs he had lied about, in good humored fun. The US casualty figures were still only in the hundreds, to be fair - and the horrors of what had happened to the Iraqis were still mostly confined to the irresponsible lefty fringe news exchanges - but still, that video of that White House news conference remains a shining moment of revelation of exactly how fucked the US was with that guy in the Presidency: and today she can cash big paychecks on the supposedly "liberal" MSNBC and laugh and laugh - right on camera - about imagining others falling so low as to make fecklessly dishonest videos for the travesty Trump. She can't even imagine how anyone could do that, snort giggle.
Nobody in W's crew has to wear it.
Will Trump have to wear it? Maybe. But a prudent person will consider, and prepare, for a world in which he doesn't.
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NAFTA destroyed that, along with the US drug war, and the US regime corruption policies at home and in Central and South America fueled the refugee conflagration.
Trump has made things worse, of course - and they are due to get worse yet.
On tonight's national TV (SBS world news, Australia) this issue got about 4 minutes ( huge air time) with upset kids and angry parents and a hell of lot more....
The famous word "Deplorable" comes to mind.
The famous word "Deplorable" comes to mind.
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Simply put... the United States of America needs to be declared a Rogue State, her assets abroad frozen and rendered unavailable, and held accountable for these deplorable actions. It is an event that would cause untold damage to the economy and could quite possibly topple the nation into absolute chaos... but it needs to happen. Our system of checks and balances has failed, our protests fall on deaf ears, and currently A Russian Interior Ministry plane is currently at Andrews AFB - The same air force base as Trumps plane tonight
... what more needs said? Our government is, essentially, a terrorist organization at this point.
Schmelzer
Valued Senior Member
Why should I care about what you name a campaign? I know that the Nazis shared a lot leftist symbols and so on, starting with the 1. May as a holiday for workers fighting evil capital, a red flag, and so on. That most of the "proletariat" which supported communists easily switched 1993 to the Nazi side, without big ideological problems. And I do not really care about that, reft vs. light. This may be important for you, not for me.
LOL, Sokal's hoax is also a rightwing US propaganda campaign? By the way, I love the hoax. Here is my preferred footnote:
The usual unsupported accusations disposed of.
Oh, looks like you have searched for a way to answer my requests for evidence for your accusations? Whenever I ask you to prove your claims, you will now accuse me of "strategic forgettery" or so? Nice try. But the burden of proof remains on your side, once you make the claim, you have to prove it.
They use the phrase "social contract" in some official documents?
No. I accepted it as a place, in comparison with other places, were the losses by state robbery are affordable. This does not mean that I accept that robbery as just, or part of some contract. Giving the street raider with a gun my money does not mean accepting that he has a right to take it. Living in a neighborhood where such street robbers are known to make trouble even less.
If you prefer "I have not accepted in any way in any form such a contract", translate my claim "I have not signed it" into this form.
Maybe. I have not lived in any of them. Anyway, all governments of the world are today very far away from libertarian ideals.
Hm, are there shithole libertarian societies? There is something remembering this. Some oppressive states are simply too weak to enforce their claims, or too corrupt. This can lead in practice to some more real freedom - the government simply does not bother you, or if the bureaucrats bother you, you simply give them some money and nonetheless do what you like. But such governments are usually weak because the economy is weak too. And the de facto freedoms are not secure at all. If such a state could enforce what is in his law, that would be a much more repressive state than what actually happens on the ground, and nobody would even think about naming that somehow libertarian.
The "left-libertarian" cry for big government, lol.
In fact, it is the other way around. If, for whatever reasons, there is big industry somewhere (which is a presupposition for not being a shithole) the state can gain a lot of money from taxing them, thus, will be strong. And the big industry itself likes a lot of regulations to frustrate small competitors.
I share the reality base with climate change researchers as well as economists. None of my claims was wrong from a scientific point of view, in the points where we have most of the discussion (is there a warming, is it anthropogenic) I simply follow the mainstream, in the economy, I follow mainly David D. Friedman, in some but not all points Austrian economy, why you have introduced here ecology I don't know. Political analysis is not science, Keynesian economy pseudoscience, history irrelevant (that was a quite interesting discussion, where you have given a lot of interesting arguments, and have succeeded in changing my opinion about this, even if only partially.
Indeed, and I have explained why. The thing which is dangerous for the world is the US empire, US world rule. Such a world rule needs an ideology different from classical fascism. Fascism, as a variant of nationalism, would destroy automatically an essential part of the US power, namely most of its soft power. This is a variant of a quite old argument that communism is more dangerous than fascism because communism has a chance to reach world power, fascism not. Once it becomes obvious that the US cares only about their own national interests, instead of Western values or so, a lot of soft power simply disappears, vanishes into thin air.
I understand very well that you have very different interests. For you, fascism would be horrible, you live there.
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