If Israel is our ally, then they are. At the very least an adversary.
The Trump Presidency
- Thread starter joepistole
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Let's see if Russia can leave too.
sculptor
Valued Senior Member
Why do you think that Israel is our ally?
We both say so.
sculptor
Valued Senior Member
Diplomacy is usually accomplished with words.
We don't need to make an enemy out of everyone Israel doesn't like.
And we don't - Saudi Arabia is not our enemy, for example, even when it finances terrorism against us (let alone Israel).
Iran is a natural ally of the US, in the Middle East. Skilled diplomacy should be able to take advantage of that.
Enemy might be a strong term. They are like Russia, to powerful to ignore, but definitely not on our side.
They should be allies, on our side. Competent diplomacy would make it so.
you fail to even understand my argument and continue to push the idea islam bad judeochristian good here. here you are supporting violence and destabilization.
um that was my claim or your claim. stability and security are not synonyms. would it effect stability to some extent as notjob run countries like israel will get violent will the world suddenly become massively more unstable no. it may actualy increase stability by preventing rougue nuclear powers like the us and israel from using their nukes as a means to get away with violence.
Wow thanks for dropping the pretense had firmly just coming out and saying islam bad to you. your opinion is wrong. its not about defending moderate islam. it about condeming biased unfactual simplistic garbage thinking. you have 2 standards of conduct one for the judeochristian countries and their allies and one for other probaby browner countries. your really need to grow past your rather simplistic understanding of the middle east.
Israel is not our ally. Israel is the reason our policy is so fucked up in the middle east. the single biggest mistake the US ever made in the middle east was supporting Israel. it is perhaps outside of saudi arabia the country in the middle east most inimical to our interests.
Sometimes countries have irreconcilable differences.
A problematic ally then, but you can't say they aren't one.
The US and Iran are natural allies in the Middle East - the US has fewer and milder differences, more and greater interests in common, with Iran than almost any other country in the region.
And we are, after all, "allies" with Saudi Arabia. Even after 9/11. And Israel we forgive almost anything - the USS Liberty, the creation of apartheid and all its consequences in the middle of the Middle East, the lack of oil, etc. So we are a very tolerant country, capable of forgiving almost anything in the past for the sake of a better future.
The major obstacle between the US and Iran is probably the Republican Guard, in Iran, and the Republican Party, in the US. It's hard to say which of these the decent people of the respective countries are more likely to disempower first.
nonesense
Israel would go to war with Iran before it could arm itself with nukes.
- They have stated more or less this position consistently for ages.
- They have also demonstrated they have in the past and are prepared to destroy any attempt to develop nuclear arms by Iran.
again this is nonsense.
I can assume due to your reluctance to actually deal with the issue raised, that you are happy about Iran having WMD's.
Well fine... you are entitled to your naivety and ignorance.
For me the idea of any WMD's anywhere, is abhorrent and ultimately self defeating..
My religious philosophy is more akin to Pantheism.
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Bells
Staff member
Iran would want to acquire nuclear weapons because Israel has nuclear weapons.
Israel's nuclear warheads (of which there are apparently hundreds) creates a horrific imbalance in the region. Its neighbouring countries will of course want to acquire or develop weapons with which to defend itself against a country that is so hostile towards their interest, just as they are hostile toward's Israel's interests.
Israel wants to be the only strike capability in the region. It is understandable that their neighbours are not overly fond of the idea.
Was Iran on its way to acquiring nuclear weapons? Perhaps. But it would not be in their interest to use them, not with a US backed nuclear armed country ready to annihilate them with the push of a button.
Nuclear weapons for Iran would be for a sense of security against its neighbours.
Perhaps... yes...
however you ignore the reality of what Israel will do if Iran does continue to develop nuclear weapons.
It is not about right or wrong or even balance. It is about what Israel has threatened to do, and demonstrated a resolve to do it.
Unless you can change Israels mind on the issue, catastrophic instability appears to be the most likely outcome.
Do you agree?
If not why not?
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If Iran develops - or buys - a nuclear weapon, it will be safe from Israel. For the first time in decades. The more threatening Israel becomes, the greater the motive of Iran to get hold of nuclear weapons.
If they were sure of success.
If they try and fail, they are doomed. Even Pakistan, Sunni though it may be, would not stand by and watch Israel nuke a Muslim country that has not attacked it.
Iran is not on Israel's border, btw.
Oh I don't think Israel nukes would initially be an option.
Why do you think Israel would use it's nukes initially?
Israel will use precision drones, and other air strikes to neutralize Iran's nuclear development. Iran will then most likely retaliate using Hizballah and Hamas in ways that may very likely escalate the conflict depending upon Israeli casualties. Either way my point is founded.
With out a significant change in Israeli "policy of retaliation", catastrophic instability appears to be the most likely outcome. In the case ongoing nuclear arms development by the Iranian Government inevitably this will escalate Israeli military reaction.
Why do you think Israel would use it's nukes initially?
Israel will use precision drones, and other air strikes to neutralize Iran's nuclear development. Iran will then most likely retaliate using Hizballah and Hamas in ways that may very likely escalate the conflict depending upon Israeli casualties. Either way my point is founded.
With out a significant change in Israeli "policy of retaliation", catastrophic instability appears to be the most likely outcome. In the case ongoing nuclear arms development by the Iranian Government inevitably this will escalate Israeli military reaction.
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That probably won't work - as it did not with Saddam, requiring instead sanctions and inspections and so forth. Not only is Iran too far away on the other side of enemies to easily do that, but Iran's nuke program is likely both hidden and hardened. And that's assuming Iran couldn't simply buy a nuke or two, at least the fixin's - from Russia, from Pakistan, from the missing Soviet stockpile.
Until Iran succeeds in arming itself - at which time the escalation ceases.
Which may account for the urgency of current US warmongering.
Bells
Staff member
There's no "perhaps" about it.
It's the same reason India and Pakistan both developed nuclear weapons.
Who is ignoring it?
I pointed out why Iran wants nuclear weapons. You decided to apply something I never even discussed or said, to me.
Israel's aggression is part of the reason why Iran wants nuclear weapons. Something something about circular firing squad goes here, I suppose.
Oookay...
And?
The more Israel threatens, the more likely Iran will develop or acquire nuclear weapons. And if they do, then Israel would be risking self destruction if they decide to nuke or attack Iran without provocation.
I don't even know why you are asking such a question....
Anywho..
Israel would be insane to attack a nuclear armed Iran. Iran is not stupid. They aren't going to attack Israel. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for Israel.
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