The time one is willing to devote to learn about God

W

water

the sea
Registered Senior Member
The time one is willing to devote to learn about God



I read this in some other thread:


Well, indeed I have thought about god quite a lot, and researched and discussed about him, that is why I have become an atheist.
And I did not limit myself to one god, I have thought about dozens of them.
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All those of you who have actively thought about God -- how much time did you devote to that before you have made your final decision (whether to believe in God or not)?
A week, a month, a year, ten years?
How much time was necessary?
How much research have you had to do to come to a satisfying conclusion?

Do you think there is a chronological deadline in which one should be able to make up one's mind about whether to believe in God or not?
 
As the one quoted, I will answer first: Ten years

But I think it is subjective, and it depends on how you think about it.
 
aprox 8 years, then enlightenment.
but it is subjective, I know someone, a very learned man who had been brought up without any religious indoctrination. he has and is still studying theology, and has done for his entire 66 years and it has not swayed him.
 
water,

You are making an erroneous assumption. There is nothing to "learn" about God except what we formulate. Therefore when we realize we are thinking in circles, we must rather give up because we can simply not know. It is an impossibility for us to know anything. (As I say in your other thread, this is because as circles change, faith and knowledge change as well)
 
My epiphany came when I was seventeen. And I've been an atheist for the last forty-nine years.

A god, that by definition is unknowable, can't be studied. What you do learn about a god has been written by other men - many other men - men you don't know and can't question.
 
I thought about God for a semester when I first started Uni, (UofM) I visited different churches around town that practiced different types of Christianity and made a list of what I thought were the main differences. It was really quite fun as each Priest/Minister is was so excited (and sometimes a little apprehensive) to speak with me about their belief. I MANY instances they said I was the very first person who ever asked specifics about the religion.

Anyway, when I was around 28 I spent a lot of time around atheists, but not the kind that converted to atheism, just people who was never raised to believe. And they didn’t have any inclination to know really anything about religion. I read a number of websites similar to this and bought a few books about early Christianity and the more information I found out the more it seemed something was amiss. Suddenly on the way to the lab one day it “clicked”, instant epiphany, and I felt a quite good about it too. Instant clarity of this magnitude is quite rare indeed. I’d say it was one of the best discoveries I’ve ever managed to make.

So maybe my whole life or maybe a year or so of reading part time and that was about it.
 
I was daily indoctrinated by Christianity from birth and it was only when I entered my teens and began to think from the strength of some knowledge that doubts began to appear. By my early twenties my atheism was largely complete. During the thirty years after that I have gradually expunged the deep seated damage caused by those early childhood indoctrinations.

My chosen vocation has been science and technology - disciplines that require clear thinking to be successful - atheism was therefore always a likely outcome under such conditions.
 
water said:
Do you think there is a chronological deadline in which one should be able to make up one's mind about whether to believe in God or not?
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yeah,about the same time you make up your mind whether Santa claus or Tooth fairy are real! ;)
 
I am thirty-three and have been thinking about it since I decided that I was no longer Catholic when I was about eight years old.
Recently I have found myself seriously considering going to school for Anthropology with a focus on world religions.
It's not really an attempt to know God and discern what I may end up believing.
Not for me, at least.
It is more a source of curiosity and wonderment for why people believe what they do.
I have pretty much resolved myself to being agnostic for the rest of my life because, simply, I don't think it matters.

After some long and serious thought I realized that Man was far more fascinating than God.
All these years I spent so far trying to understand God, what it may be and how I feel about it were not in vain, but more a prelude to where I have come to realize my real fascination lies.

I don't have much interest in studying God through Man's eyes.
I would rather study Man through God's eyes.
 
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Its different for everyone, for me i went through a stage where religious belief was still pushed upon me in some way though i started to reject it, that started when i was about 8 and started to question religion like i did with everything else, 5 years later i was atheist, i still question religions and discuss them, seek answers etc to serve my own curiousity and improve my understanding, but i've come to a conclusion that works for me and i am happy with.
It will vary from person to person as the ammount of time it takes to find a suitable conclusion for an individual will always be different.
 
I had the most wonderful child, I'm saying this so as the religious people on this forum dont try to poo poo it.
I had a childhood almost devoid of religious influences my education was mostly at home,My grand father a catholic from childhood but I presume with athiest tendencies and only because of the things he said
he never spoke of god to me or my brothers and sisters. (I have six brothers and seven sisters) anyway lets get back to the point of my ramblings my elder brother gave me a book of bible storys along with easops fables and the arabian nights when I was thirteen. as you know all these were moral tales. this was the first step to my love of literature. I later read the bible cover to cover in fact I study it with an open mind. for a good 2 years on and off, but it is only a book to me and a not a well written one at that, my atheism comes from being one with life from the begining, so I dont suffer fools gladly, I can be rude and abusive but I would not harm a fly. my granddad would say enjoy life while you can and give what you can because your a long time dead.
 
taken to church every sunday, preached at by my father and having the priest visit all the time.
when my mother died, my father turned away from god, so we did not see the priest no more and my father never preached to us.
but I had my own bible that I read at bedtime, and I prayed for my mother and father each night.
but it never spoke to me, and from the age of seven until I was fourteen, I studied that bible.
then it suddenly dawned on me like an explosion in my head, it made no sense it was all crap.
I felt ashamed, I wasted all those years talking to nothing.
and for the past twelve years, I've worked to benefit mankind.
so read your bible good xians and learn from it, do not try to justify it, better men then you have tried and failed, dont cower to no false idols. ( and I dont mean other than your god, I mean your god)
 
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None of these Atheists actually look toward anything that could convince them otherwise. They are already polarized and simply seek out the sort of books that support what they already believe.

It is like American Politics -- they all claim to be openminded, but you would never catch a Republican dead going to see "Farhenheit 911" or reading Bill Clinton's Book.

It seems to me that the Atheists feel most comfortable with examining the details of various theological arguments, which, in and of themselves, appear most arbitrary. So they say to themselves "this is most arbitrary" and congratulate themselves for dismissing it.

What they do not do, and remain atheist afterwards, is actually examine the life and histories of Saints or investigate miracles that have been verified and validated. There are incontrovertable Saints and Miracles, and confirmed Atheists are clever enough to stay away from them.

Oh, and my God Mother was an owner of a small Catholic Bookstore. In the years I hung out at that shop NEVER ONCE did an Atheist wonder in saying, "I would like to truly investigate whether there are any Truths in Catholicism before I dismiss it along with all sorts of other Religious rubbish" or words to that effect. So, no, I think that all these people who claim to have honestly looked into Religion are simply boldface lying about it. In the years I sat there waiting for them, at least one would have walked into the Shop, no?
 
Well, I was christian... but I never really believed in god, that was around the age of 7. I tried to "find him" in the bible and theological texts. I never found him, and I did not have the feeling that he was there anyway. I do no longer care to search because I can live on my own, I do not have the need for a god anymore.
 
hmmmm Leo...well at least the athiests herer are opening up and revealing themselves more than you have....yet

For myself, i wasn't brought up religious but i was impressionable. there used to be religious progs on the TV, and some talkind of hell. well, you know that artists Hieronymous Bosch, and his freaky figures he painted. i would imagine hell might be like that, with em comin to get ya

i remember being a really erotic child--i suppose we all are. when i was in the loo i would flash at Jesus...i am serious. i'd be hard and beliving him invisible he could see me. i was trying to corrupt Jesus...hhahah

THe story of the Bible which always really fascinated me was the Eve and Adama in the Garden of Eden.....the imagery of it, everything really attracted my curiousity, and has done ever since

By the time i was in my early teens i was totoally into bright lights big city mode. had not interest whtsoEVER with anything religiously.
I got to go to a big city when i was 15, and it was there i got turned onto LSD. These experiences actually seriously blew my mind, and opened my eyes to Nature.

From there--after about 8 trips, 15-16 i ended up squatting in ahouse and doing the whole head trip thing, ran outta money and returned back home. VERy disoriented and lost regarding being able to integrate what i had experienced
so this is when i began searching
i tried lots of differnt ideas, I joined the Hare Krishna cult, where i met one of the Beatles, George Harrison....that didn't last long. then i tried Nietzsche, Auribindo, Gurdjieff, Casteneda, ....but i just wasn't finding what i needed. I even went christian, reading the Bible and takin it all so seriously
dig this. in it we are told that all sins are forgiven but not cursing the Holy Ghost, right. well i stat thinking all the worst kinds of insults. i end up on the floor trying to stop myself thinking shit and start getting stomach pains....!
it isn't long before i drop that shit. especially me being Queer and reading what Paul had to say about it etc et

then i found this book by Alan Watts which really hit the spot.....i feel cause he was showing how opposites are complimentary, and explained about it in such an easily understandable and eloquent way

But i have never stopped exploring. i for example was to be turned onto looking more closely at mythology after finding--quite by chance--JM. Allegro's The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross....Then i began to realize from reading that, and what research that book inspired, that hallucinogenic experience in the say of sacramants is CENTRAL for epiphany and goes all the way back in our species' history, yet has been severely oppressed, from practice, and even memory. so much so that when one mentions about this, many people just start with the Hippies of the 1960s!
 
Dreamwalker said:
Well, I was christian... but I never really believed in god, that was around the age of 7. I tried to "find him" in the bible and theological texts. I never found him, and I did not have the feeling that he was there anyway. I do no longer care to search because I can live on my own, I do not have the need for a god anymore.
Click to expand...

Just so you don't pussy out when things get rough. God loves to send disasters and misfortunes to break down you tough guys.
 
duendy said:
hmmmm Leo...well at least the athiests herer are opening up and revealing themselves more than you have....yet

For myself, i wasn't brought up religious but i was impressionable. there used to be religious progs on the TV, and some talkind of hell. well, you know that artists Hieronymous Bosch, and his freaky figures he painted. i would imagine hell might be like that, with em comin to get ya

i remember being a really erotic child--i suppose we all are. when i was in the loo i would flash at Jesus...i am serious. i'd be hard and beliving him invisible he could see me. i was trying to corrupt Jesus...hhahah

THe story of the Bible which always really fascinated me was the Eve and Adama in the Garden of Eden.....the imagery of it, everything really attracted my curiousity, and has done ever since

By the time i was in my early teens i was totoally into bright lights big city mode. had not interest whtsoEVER with anything religiously.
I got to go to a big city when i was 15, and it was there i got turned onto LSD. These experiences actually seriously blew my mind, and opened my eyes to Nature.

From there--after about 8 trips, 15-16 i ended up squatting in ahouse and doing the whole head trip thing, ran outta money and returned back home. VERy disoriented and lost regarding being able to integrate what i had experienced
so this is when i began searching
i tried lots of differnt ideas, I joined the Hare Krishna cult, where i met one of the Beatles, George Harrison....that didn't last long. then i tried Nietzsche, Auribindo, Gurdjieff, Casteneda, ....but i just wasn't finding what i needed. I even went christian, reading the Bible and takin it all so seriously
dig this. in it we are told that all sins are forgiven but not cursing the Holy Ghost, right. well i stat thinking all the worst kinds of insults. i end up on the floor trying to stop myself thinking shit and start getting stomach pains....!
it isn't long before i drop that shit. especially me being Queer and reading what Paul had to say about it etc et

then i found this book by Alan Watts which really hit the spot.....i feel cause he was showing how opposites are complimentary, and explained about it in such an easily understandable and eloquent way

But i have never stopped exploring. i for example was to be turned onto looking more closely at mythology after finding--quite by chance--JM. Allegro's The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross....Then i began to realize from reading that, and what research that book inspired, that hallucinogenic experience in the say of sacramants is CENTRAL for epiphany and goes all the way back in our species' history, yet has been severely oppressed, from practice, and even memory. so much so that when one mentions about this, many people just start with the Hippies of the 1960s!
Click to expand...

One of my Ex-wives was a big Beatle Fan. She hung out with them all but really like John and George. When all of the other groupies screwed up by hating Yoko, my ex-wife got on the inside by liking her. She got into the Hare Krishna thing with George... and that is where I met her. Although George is NOT my favorite musician by far, still I can't help but to think that my favorite songs may be "Its All Too Much" and "Isn't It a Pity".

The first Religious Orders I took, and then reneged on, was being a Monk in an Aurobindo Ashram.

I read Alan Watts too. I always suspected him of just being a big BS'r. Doesn't he give that impression to everybody? But his books have information. As long as you don't look at him as anything more than a research clerk I guess there is no harm.

Ram Dass... have you ever met him... LSD and everything... Richard Alpert... he seemed much more genuine, as Fad Gurus go.

We all must have read Carlos Castenada. The trick there was to see who the first would be to see that we were all being told a tall tale. All across the World there were voices popping up "Hey wait... this is getting pretty stupid".

Gurdjieff had a huge following and I even read a good number of his books, just to say that I had... they seemed to be on a big informal Must-Read Reading List, but all I could figure was that he was a Rug Saleman who had a night-job shaking down the New Age salon crowd. Like Krishnamurti he seemed to impress people by telling them how stupid they were. I never figured somebody telling me I was stupid proved that they were all that smarter, so I wasn't ever very impressed.

Its a shame you never moved on to Catholicism. I was lucky. I went out to the Midwest to do Volunteer Work after one of those Floods and fell into the Crew of this one Dominican Priest who had been at Medjugorje, Hersegovina. Interesting guy, Father Tom. He was hairless. He had once mixed medicines and all his hair folicals fell out. Considering how funny he looked, he didn't look that funny... he was able to carry it off. Anyway, he must have had alot of Voodoo in his Prayers to the Blessed Virgin, and as the years went by I decided that everything else was second place to Marian Catholicism.
 
Well Leo, believe me, i have no regrets not finding Marian Catholicsm

so you think alan a bullshitter?...haha. that's what i LOVE about him. not in meaning he is misLEADING in any way (not sure if you mean that), but that he never CLAIMEd to be some guru-dude. he admitted he just loved to entertain. actually i missed out i went on a J. Krishnamurti binge too--not so long ago actually. it was Alan's mention of him that made me read some of his shit, and i became a bit hooked
it made me laugh the bit where you say people seemed to like him cause he made them feel stupid...this is EXACTLY what is the danger. K was more crafty i recfkon --about this scam--in that he swore blind he was not an authority
what got me un-hooked. by chance, finding a book written by his secret mistreess, where we get to know the REAL K. i only realized just how hooked i'd become after i got the shock realization

Ram Dass...? well, he got sucked into the whole guru trip didn't he?....though i do sometimes enjoy what he writes, and i believe he is recommending hallucinogens again, which is good....
THE missin link par excellANCE
 
leo said:
Ram Dass... have you ever met him... LSD and everything
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your a right one to judge, your still taken it leo , with all your hulcinations, what with devils on you shoulders and angels in you pants. or is that the otherway round.
twilight zone, again.
 
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