The Syrian "Revolution": A Farce from Beginning to End

ElectricFetus said:
What are you rambling about? At least 3 out of 4 of the things 'Putin does not say' are absolutely verified facts.
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From ElectricFetus post#994 :

- quote - "What Putin does not say
- I have bases in syria I want to keep.
- I sell weapons to syria so they can keep killing people.
- I have citizens in syria, including
- I just don't like toppling dictators or allowing foreign influence in other countries" - unquote

ElectricFetus, here are some things the President of my country does not say that are "absolutely verified facts".

- I have bases and allies in the Middle East that I want to keep and perform military interventions for
- I sell/supply to Syrian rebels and elements of al-qaeda in Syria, and also sell/supply massive amounts of military weapons to other countries in the region and also the rest of the world so they can keep killing people.
- I have boots on the ground in Syria, including (!?!?!)
- I just don't like toppling dictators or allowing foreign influence in other countries but I and the Presidents before me have been doing it for decades anyway

So, ElectricFetus, what are you rambling about? All 4 of the things the President of my country does not say are absolutely verified facts.

"Go look that up in your Funk and Wagnalls,"!
 
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Tiassa said:
re: Obama speech

When the president asserted unconditional authority to declare military action, it pierced my heart.
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Why are you surprised? He's allowed to do this before asking congress for 60 days.

The War Powers Resolution requires the President to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war.
 
I think we may all end the talk:

Obama says he is shifting from Syria focus to domestic priorities

U.S. President Barack Obama says he is focusing on domestic priorities after a tense period during which he sought congressional approval to use military force against Syria.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/obama-says-shifting-syria-focus-161754390.html
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And that is that. Not all his staff there; internal conflicts? Appointees ducking and running for cover as though it were them being bombed instead of Syria.

Forgive the minor levity: this has the potential to be a tragedy. I do sympathize in that it seems the US needs to be "stoked up" to a war. The problem was analytical, although there was no intent to force a decision via the UN (their 'no-guilt analysis being a hugely unhelpful idea) and so the bureaucracies of the intelligence services might be at fault. Any of them could have produced a "smoking rocket" (not literally) on their own, I think. Can't be economics: a few cruises aren't that expensive. Or inaction is just a sacrifice to politics. And Marx said the West was decadent. Silly old dog! There are other possibilities, I guess: impenetrability of SFA factions and associates, uncertainty over payload delivery by American cruises, and so forth. Internal politics is another big possibility; resentment at the Pentagon, for instance.

I say potential above in that, although I think the Americans have bowed out in the most obvious (and therefore probably actual) way available, they might still choose to act once guilt is diagnostically certain. It could be.
 
GeoffP said:
I think we may all end the talk:



And that is that. Not all his staff there; internal conflicts? Appointees ducking and running for cover as though it were them being bombed instead of Syria.

Forgive the minor levity: this has the potential to be a tragedy. I do sympathize in that it seems the US needs to be "stoked up" to a war. The problem was analytical, although there was no intent to force a decision via the UN (their 'no-guilt analysis being a hugely unhelpful idea) and so the bureaucracies of the intelligence services might be at fault. Any of them could have produced a "smoking rocket" (not literally) on their own, I think. Can't be economics: a few cruises aren't that expensive. Or inaction is just a sacrifice to politics. And Marx said the West was decadent. Silly old dog! There are other possibilities, I guess: impenetrability of SFA factions and associates, uncertainty over payload delivery by American cruises, and so forth. Internal politics is another big possibility; resentment at the Pentagon, for instance.

I say potential above in that, although I think the Americans have bowed out in the most obvious (and therefore probably actual) way available, they might still choose to act once guilt is diagnostically certain. It could be.
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GeoffP, would you care to place any bets on that FOCUS being on BenghaziGate, NSA Spying, HillaryGate, ObamaCare, Eric Snowden,...
I, myself, would bet on the FOCUS being preparing politically for the next election cycle, repairing his perceived future legacy and preparing for his future career prospects Post-Presidency.

But, hey GeoffP, that is just my, as soon as it was Posted, completely and utterly ignored, opinion.
 
I just don't get it. Obama backs Assad into a corner and forces him to accept giving up his chemical and biological weapons, yet queerbashing Roose Putin is credited with saving the day while Obama has to come home and "repair" his legacy. What repairs? Most of you were complaining that the US throws its weight around too much, that intervention in Syria risks making the problem even worse, and so on... Obama takes your considerations into account without lifting his finger from the trigger, Assad and Putin flinch, and yet Obama is the one with a legacy to repair. The next bankrupt elderly person who gets their broken shattered leg wrapped in a cast will probably consider Obama's universal healthcare a failure too, for wasting its time on them of course.

Obama ordered the hit on Bin Laden, then played an instrumental role in toppling a whole series of pathetic dictators who only ever cooperated with the West insofar as they found it convenient for the moment. Then without firing a single shot, he puts the brakes on a 30 year-old biochem weapons program intended for an apocalyptic confrontation with Israel, and again he's made to look like he bungled and Putin came to his diplomatic face-saving rescue? If Assad was so happy to rid himself of those weapons, he would have offered to do it long before Obama stepped in, back when his officials were threatening to use them on any foreign invader. This isn't even a pyrrhic victory for Assad, he lost on every single account and now his biggest deterrent against foreign assistance to secular rebels is going under international control and subsequent elimination; if he tries to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by turning this ploy into a stall tactic, the bombs will start dropping just as originally planned.

Give Putin a Nobel Prize for what? Supporting a mass slaughter and then caving in when the US finally showed some resolve?

DMOE if you want to see true elitist media at work, watch how Obama does a better job than Bush in practically every single way possible, under vastly worse circumstances than what Bush had to face when he started the job, and yet the Republicans are going to smear him in every corner of the press and make millions of Americans wish they had stuck with the GOP. You think 4 dead CIA operatives in Benghazi is something worth freaking out over and a reason to abandon millions of people early in a democratic revolution, whereas thousands of US dead and wounded in Iraq over a fake war isn't literally a thousand times worse?
 
ElectricFetus, here are some things the President of my country does not say that are "absolutely verified facts".

- I have bases and allies in the Middle East that I want to keep and perform military interventions for
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Which is not actually Syria its self, Russia has bases in Syria its self.

- I sell/supply to Syrian rebels and elements of al-qaeda in Syria,
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Unproven, we are selling weapons to syrian rebels but it is unproven that those weapons are going to rebels that are part of al-qaeda. The rebels consist of many different groups and we are supposedly giving weapons to the least fundementalistic of them... not that I believe it.

and also sell/supply massive amounts of military weapons to other countries in the region and also the rest of the world so they can keep killing people.
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and that has nothing to do with syria, lets just stick to the issue of syria, should Assad or the rebels be supported and who supports what sides for what reasons. Selling weapons to other countries is not 'reasons', having bases in the region but not syria its self is not 'reason', having invaded other countries before is not 'reason'.

- I have boots on the ground in Syria, including (!?!?!)
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Yeah your going to need to cite that one!

- I just don't like toppling dictators or allowing foreign influence in other countries but I and the Presidents before me have been doing it for decades anyway
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So? More so Obama has not actually done so, even Libya was a UN operation, not US.

Assad is killing his own people in mass, its a humanitarian crisis, should not the UN stop this? They did so in libya, why not syria? Well for one Russia and China have veto all UN action to do just that in syria. If the UN is toothless because of corrupt members and refuse to act on their buddies as they murder thousands of people, then what is the UN good for?
 
CptBork said:
I just don't get it. Obama backs Assad into a corner and forces him to accept giving up his chemical and biological weapons, yet queerbashing Roose Putin is credited with saving the day while Obama has to come home and "repair" his legacy. What repairs? Most of you were complaining that the US throws its weight around too much, that intervention in Syria risks making the problem even worse, and so on... Obama takes your considerations into account without lifting his finger from the trigger, Assad and Putin flinch, and yet Obama is the one with a legacy to repair. The next bankrupt elderly person who gets their broken shattered leg wrapped in a cast will probably consider Obama's universal healthcare a failure too, for wasting its time on them of course.



Obama ordered the hit on Bin Laden, then played an instrumental role in toppling a whole series of pathetic dictators who only ever cooperated with the West insofar as they found it convenient for the moment. Then without firing a single shot, he puts the brakes on a 30 year-old biochem weapons program intended for an apocalyptic confrontation with Israel, and again he's made to look like he bungled and Putin came to his diplomatic face-saving rescue? If Assad was so happy to rid himself of those weapons, he would have offered to do it long before Obama stepped in, back when his officials were threatening to use them on any foreign invader. This isn't even a pyrrhic victory for Assad, he lost on every single account and now his biggest deterrent against foreign assistance to secular rebels is going under international control and subsequent elimination; if he tries to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by turning this ploy into a stall tactic, the bombs will start dropping just as originally planned.

Give Putin a Nobel Prize for what? Supporting a mass slaughter and then caving in when the US finally showed some resolve?

DMOE if you want to see true elitist media at work, watch how Obama does a better job than Bush in practically every single way possible, under vastly worse circumstances than what Bush had to face when he started the job, and yet the Republicans are going to smear him in every corner of the press and make millions of Americans wish they had stuck with the GOP. You think 4 dead CIA operatives in Benghazi is something worth freaking out over and a reason to abandon millions of people early in a democratic revolution, whereas thousands of US dead and wounded in Iraq over a fake war isn't literally a thousand times worse?
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All I can add to this is, Americans should be glad we have Obama handling this crisis and not GWB!
 
spidergoat said:
Captain Kremmen said:
If Putin's plan is successful, surely he will get this years Nobel Peace Prize.Not actually his plan.
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We have been talking to Russia about this option for at least a year.
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More on this point.
The Syrian deus ex machine
By David Ignatius, Published: September 10

When the ancient Greek or Roman playwrights had painted themselves into a corner, plot-wise, they sometimes resorted to the dramatic device known as the deus ex machina, in which one of the gods was hoisted over the stage and dropped in to resolve the otherwise inchoate drama.

Something similar happened this week with Syria. The drama had progressed into a mix of international tragedy and domestic political bathos. President Obama’s threat of military action against Syria was right in principle but garnered no real political support — not least because Obama and his generals agree there is no military solution.

Cue the gods (in Moscow!): The stage directions may have been confusing, starting with a throwaway line from Secretary of State John Kerry, followed up quickly by his Russian counterpart. Suddenly the stage was crowded with a cheering chorus that included U.S., Frenchand Russian presidents, the U.N. secretary general, the Chinese and even Iranians.
Thanks to this welcome plot twist, Obama was able to give a war speech Tuesday night without having to ask Congress to actually commit military power. He could chide his usual tormentors, right and left, that he was upholding values that they supposedly hold dear.

Anyone who thinks this week’s events were simply a theatrical accident should go back to drama school. Obama, Kerry and the Russians have been talking about control of Syrian chemical weapons for many months, most recently a week ago at the G-20 meeting in St. Petersburg, Russia. Let it be said that the mercurial Vladimir Putin (whom Obama regards as the most transactional leader in the world) knows how to propose an 11th-hour deal.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...5eff98-1a45-11e3-82ef-a059e54c49d0_story.html
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...appease?...confront?...appease?...confront?...

Nurse Wratchett says?... wait until after I'm out of ICU to decide!...awesome nurse!...decent advice!
 
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