The stagnantly closed minds of the religious elite

S

SkippingStones

splunk!
Registered Senior Member
"One door and only one, and it's sides are two...
I'm on the inside, on which side are you?"

My dad was taught that song in Sunday school as a kid. The idea in those words angers me because of how it's echoed throughout much of modern Christianity. "
If you're not with us, if you're not saved, then you're against us, you're going to hell."

It's pure arrogance.

While in Iowa the past week, I visited my grandparents conservative Mennonite church. The sermon basically outlined the what the church believes, and that if you don't believe that, you're going to the bad place down under. I could see that most of the congregation accepted the sermon's points as truth. Most of them believed the sermon was divinely inspired.... "the way, the truth, and the light."

It made me want to rampage and destroy things. Meh, that's a little harsh, it wasn't that bad, but I was put off.

Their view on life is so closeminded, so severing. To refuse to learn from tomorrow, to explore... I can't imagine why people choose to live that way... unless that is all they know.

How do you teach someone who doesn't wish to learn? when what you are teaching isn't even a thing, or an idea, but a way of thinking, of living. And should you? Could it be that you are no different than they, in the grand sense?
I don't think so. Intuition tells me I have something they don't. Even the knowledge that they feel the same way about me doesn't affect that.

When I hear someone preaching religion with certainly, I get the feeling they are just someone who hasn't taken the time to seriously think about life, the universe, and everything. One of the most effective ways someone could convert me to their religion would be to show me that they really are an intellegent and thoughtful human being, with or without their faith.
 
It is not good to call someone close minded just because they won't share your views.

I hope you see the hypocrisy in this.
 
Indeed, I do not wish to be hypocritical.

But, what does closed minded mean then?

My thread on arguments in the Phil. section stemmed from this. If I am positive I am right, what does it take to make me accept that fact that I could be wrong?

And, is it that they don't share my views, or that they don't share my lack of views? or am I fooling myself into thinking that I am more open minded than them?
 
Anyone who thinks himself to be open minded will be the king of ignorance.


We are born with no knowledge. Accusing someone of not "taking the time to seriously think about life" is great evidence of arrogance, don't you think?

Jews have a different standard of Truth, which is God. As God is constant, in Him is found no shadow of variableness and consequently He is more reliable than ever changing doctrines and belief systems.

What, or who, is your standard of truth?
 
Anyone who thinks himself to be open minded will be the king of ignorance.
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Well what's open mindedness? In this situation I can understand why these people who I disagree with would think the way they do. I don't think that understanding is reciprocal. I realise my first post was something of an arrogant rant, but the feeling remains.

My standard of truth is me, what has been built from my experience and enviroment.

Hmmm. I've just realised something that changes the way I've been thinking in this thread. Maybe I will contribute later.
 
Well, in respect to religion, most people simply fight it because it is contrary to their lifestyle. A relationship with God requires abstinence from a "worldly" lifestyle.. (no more dirty jokes, one night stands, sleeping in church ;).. and so on). In order to sidestep the pangs of conscience, we resort to rationalizing our actions in order to assure ourselves that we have not compromised our morality.

However, as you said, there are two sides to the door. You are either in, or out, there is no compromise and there is no excuse for any of us.

P.S. Surely you understand, if your standard of truth is built from your environment, then it is certainly subject to inconsistency. Truth is constant however.
 
Christians didn't used to be so close minded.

Early Gnostic Christians believed being "spiritually alive" is being able to think. All Gnostic Christians were very creative and were all great artists and poets. Being intellectual for them was a state of mind. It has nothing to do with how intelligent you are. After all, what good does intelligence do if you don't use it?

One of the many differerences between the Gnostics and Orthodox is that, they believed that their belief have transcended beyond the limitation and rigidness of Orthodox Christians. While the Orthodox believed that God has finished revealing all and bible is completely finished and closed and all future works have to be based on New Testament, the Gnostics believed in "continuous divine revelation". Many continued to receive visions and spiritual communications with God and contributed to their evolving belief system.

Since all Gnostics were all spiritually and intellectually advanced, the "spiritually blind" Orthodox saw them as a threat and have them all killed.
 
However, as you said, there are two sides to the door. You are either in, or out, there is no compromise and there is no excuse for any of us.
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Life isn't that cut and dry. Everyone has doubts, fears, beliefs, unbeliefs, etc. All those change from one instant to the next. In my experience, anyone who says they positively believe in God, Jesus, and their salvation 100% of the time is fooling themselves.
 
Yes, but that doesn't mean they do not believe at all or reject God.

There is a difference between a willful rejection and a wavering faith.

Losing belief in God just because your cancer doesn't seem to be getting better is foolishness. It's not like God is at your beck and call to heal you whenever you snap your fingers.
 
SkippingStones said:
If you're not with us, if you're not saved, then you're against us, you're going to hell."
It's pure arrogance

..Their view on life is so closeminded, so severing. To refuse to learn from tomorrow, to explore... I can't imagine why people choose to live that way... unless that is all they know.

How do you teach someone who doesn't wish to learn? when what you are teaching isn't even a thing, or an idea, but a way of thinking, of living. And should you? Could it be that you are no different than they, in the grand sense?
.
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religion=close minded/primitive way of thinking, :(
wonder how long would religious people last if it wasnt for advances in modern technology/medicine etc invented by progressive free thinkers/atheists/scientists.

www.thewaronfaith.com/wtf_say_thank_you.htm
 
Anyone who thinks himself to be open minded will be the king of ignorance.
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Open mindedness is the willingness to entertain ideas and beliefs that are different/contrary to your own. One who is close-minded will be ignorant, not one who is open minded.
Accusing someone of not "taking the time to seriously think about life" is great evidence of arrogance, don't you think?
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Arrogance is overbearing pride. Seeing indications that one hasn't seriously thought about life doesn't necessarily imply the observer is arrogant.
 
SkippingStones,


One of the most effective ways someone could convert me to their religion would be to show me that they really are an intellegent and thoughtful human being, with or without their faith.
Click to expand...

That's impossible. There is no such thing as an "intelligent and thoughtful human being, with or without their faith" per se. There is no universal behaviour ALL people evaluate, value and accept as "intelligent and thoughtful, with or without faith".

And there's another thing: For one to see this "intelligent and thoughtful human being, with or without fath" (whatever the "brand" of this intelligece and thoughtfulness may be), one must have an idea of what that is, and already be it at least to some degree.


You said something else too which puzzles me: One of the most effective ways someone could convert me to their religion -- why would one want to be converted? I understand that people want to convert -- but why would one want to be converted?
 
Alpha said:
Open mindedness is the willingness to entertain ideas and beliefs that are different/contrary to your own. One who is close-minded will be ignorant, not one who is open minded.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between one who is open minded and one who thinks he is open-minded. Most who think they are open minded simply close doors to sound doctrines in order to be "open" to others. This is simply not "open mindedness".

Arrogance is overbearing pride. Seeing indications that one hasn't seriously thought about life doesn't necessarily imply the observer is arrogant.
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He admitted himself that his initial argument revealed undertones of arrogance.

Of course when the word "necessarily" is instituted, almost anything goes. In light of this discussion, "seeing indications that one hasn't seriously thought about life" through the observer's prejudices and beliefs, is arrogance.
 
Southstar,
I find myself doing this to almost all of your posts:
:rolleyes:
Why do I bother? How about you just assume I'll be doing that when you post from now on. :p
 
SkippingStones said:
"One door and only one, and it's sides are two...
I'm on the inside, on which side are you?"

My dad was taught that song in Sunday school as a kid. The idea in those words angers me because of how it's echoed throughout much of modern Christianity. "
If you're not with us, if you're not saved, then you're against us, you're going to hell."

It's pure arrogance.

While in Iowa the past week, I visited my grandparents conservative Mennonite church. The sermon basically outlined the what the church believes, and that if you don't believe that, you're going to the bad place down under. I could see that most of the congregation accepted the sermon's points as truth. Most of them believed the sermon was divinely inspired.... "the way, the truth, and the light."

It made me want to rampage and destroy things. Meh, that's a little harsh, it wasn't that bad, but I was put off.

Their view on life is so closeminded, so severing. To refuse to learn from tomorrow, to explore... I can't imagine why people choose to live that way... unless that is all they know.

How do you teach someone who doesn't wish to learn? when what you are teaching isn't even a thing, or an idea, but a way of thinking, of living. And should you? Could it be that you are no different than they, in the grand sense?
I don't think so. Intuition tells me I have something they don't. Even the knowledge that they feel the same way about me doesn't affect that.

When I hear someone preaching religion with certainly, I get the feeling they are just someone who hasn't taken the time to seriously think about life, the universe, and everything. One of the most effective ways someone could convert me to their religion would be to show me that they really are an intellegent and thoughtful human being, with or without their faith.
Click to expand...

If there was ever proof wanted that Protestantism is the Church of Satan, refer to the above. This young man roars and groans with all the violence of any demon, and all of it sources out of the the 'Church' he was raised in.

Certainly no Genuine Higher Mystical Religion engenders such diabolical hatefulness.

I would suggest that Skippingstone have himself committed so that he does not harm himself or others, but then when I think that he would only turn on his own Family in all likelyhood, and that their demise would be small loss to the rest of the World, then I can only wish him 'happy hunting'. Yes, only Justice can be served when they finally destroy each other like they destroyed the Catholic Church.
 
When I hear someone preaching religion with certainly, I get the feeling they are just someone who hasn't taken the time to seriously think about life, the universe, and everything. - SkippingStones
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Pretty much. Most religious people have only been on one side of the fence and their only religious knowledge is the one book in which they grew up with. They follow one religion and that's it and while they may know a lot about their religion like the back of their hand, they only know everything from the perspective of their one book so they basically know a lot about little and a little about a lot. They're ignorant when it comes to religion and spirituality as a whole. And when they know so much about their one little book, it becomes a limited religious obsession which is where the close-mindedness comes from; the "you're either with us or against us" in which you mention.

One of the most effective ways someone could convert me to their religion would be to show me that they really are an intellegent and thoughtful human being, with or without their faith. - SkippingStones
Click to expand...

As Rosa mentioned, why would you ever want to be converted? I know people want to know the truth so they can live in eternal bliss which leads them to put their hopes in others that claim to know the truth, but in the end you're just following the beliefs of another person and not your own.

How many people claim to know the truth? Tons. I don't see people betting their houses on one spin of the roulette wheel so why bet your life and soul in the same manner? Heck, your odds are at least better when betting your house on the roulette wheel because that at least means one of those numbers that gets hit is actually real, but when it comes to knowing it all, I highly doubt anyone has all the pieces perfectly put together so you're basically betting on a number that will never hit.

This is why people should be open-minded. Don't listen to one point of view (religion) and stick with it, absorb all the information and teachings that you can and then come to your own conclusions with it all. Try and piece everything together yourself because you'll be no more wrong than the next person. At least in this case you're following your own beliefs and conclusions as opposed to blindly following another's like a sheep.

If there was ever proof wanted that Protestantism is the Church of Satan, refer to the above. - Leo Volont
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Christianity (which means Catholocism as well) -- heck, religion (religion, not spirituality) as a whole as it's all control -- is the Church of Satan. The God in your Bible is Satan himself, only written to make it out as if Satan is the Almighty Creator of All God. And then is tossed in Jesus' teachings to make it all apply to the God of the Bible (Satan) as opposed to the Almighty Creator of All God (of which the spiritual philosopher Jesus refers to) to help further blind it's followers.

As good as the intentions may be of religious followers, they're just following a wolf in sheep's clothing. This is why people should be spiritual as opposed to following the religious beliefs of others. Christianity, Islam, etc, is all no different than the numerous whacky control cults you see and hear of today that has had their own tragedies. They just happened to have lasted longer and sucked in more people than the others.

Study ancient religions, as opposed to following "new" altered religions (although some old ones were altered too, that's how evil first became good) such as the mentioned above, it'll open your eyes. You'll be able to find out who's who in various past and current religions and will see all the tweaks of deceit. Most will just find it all unbelievable though as it goes against current mainstream following. Can't teach an old dog new tricks and all that. Anyhow, have fun with that hereticalness. :)

- N
 
Neildo said:
Christianity (which means Catholocism as well) -- heck, religion (religion, not spirituality) as a whole as it's all control -- is the Church of Satan.

- N
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You need to acknowledge that the Catholic Church is a Battlefield between the Forces of the Antichrist and the Influences of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Mary is the dedicated Enemy to Satan. Mary has been the only Divine Heavenly Revelation in the last two thousand Years. If you were to designate Her as Satanic then you would simply have to dismiss the notion that there is any Good God at all and suppose that everyone has been lying to us about the Angelic Rebellion... that Lucifer actually Won and must have isolated the True God in some form House Arrest.

So, no, Catholicism is not Satanic. What little part of the Catholic Church the Bishops control is mostly insignificant. The Religious Brotherhoods and Sisterhoods, which form the Heart and Soul of Catholicism are all quite independent of the Bishops, and are mostly Consecrated to either Mary or Jesus. There are but a few Confraternities that are dedicated to Paul the Antichrist.
 
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