the spirits

[riku_124]

Do any of you people have reason to believe / disbelieve goasts and ghouls and spirits and everything? why or why not?

example is ... i went to Williamsburg Virginia and we were on a goust tour and this peace of cloth was waving inside a house .. there was no wind and my whole group was in that house before the tour.. so how is that explainable?

Happy arguing

 

[cato]

no, I don't believe in that stuff. its the same thing as UFOs, people often see things that aren't there, and whatever the popular folklore of the time dictates as being what you saw, you will swear up and down that it was exactly that. Carl Sagan describes this in detail in his book Demon Haunted World. which I am still willing to send to a believer in UFOs/ghosts/witches/incubi/telepathy/ect if they pay the shipping.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Do any of you people have reason to believe / disbelieve goasts and ghouls and spirits and everything? why or why not?

Ghosts, ghouls, and spirits are fairytales. There is no evidence to support
their existance and evidence to contradict it.

example is ... i went to Williamsburg Virginia and we were on a goust tour and this peace of cloth was waving inside a house .. there was no wind and my whole group was in that house before the tour.. so how is that explainable?

Happy arguing

That's a great question. I would have started by putting my hand near the
cloth to see if air flow could be felt. When an answer to a question isn't
available, the worst thing that can happen is assigning an explanation of
'ghosts did it'. The best thing to do is to hypothesize, experiment, observe,
and analyze.

 

[terpinator72]

Ghosts, ghouls, and spirits are fairytales. There is no evidence to support
their existance and evidence to contradict it..

Ok way to quote carl sagan there... directly without attributing quotations.
While ghosts, ghouls and spritis and even fairys are fairytales, they do not exist in mass reality. Therefore, to say they exist definitely is not correct, nor is it correct to say they dont exist. No proof can be established fully wither way.

However, the fact that sense differentiation exists, IE Bats having radar, deers with better hearing, compared to humans etc, this shows that there very well may be other things existing in the world in which he cannot sense. As animals have often been attributed to being able to know when a earthquake or some natural disaster happens. This differentiation exists. ANd people that just go around and hog wash all this unverifiable phenomon is incorrect. We cannot prove it true nor false...
We still dont know hardly anything about life. We dont understand the simpliest of things.. like dreams etc, what the purpose.. Why humans have to sleep? If evolution is so perfect, then why havent we evolved not to sleep when in effect most animals and living species are attacked when they sleep. IE Not surviving to be the fittest.
And just to use metabolic functions for a debunk of this paradigm is reductionist, because if EVOLUTION was correct, and we evolved from single cell organisms, this metabolic function would be subject to change as well as Everything else.
In reality we have no clue about why we are here other than the things in which we can replicate and have predicted success. And it is sad that in current science, they debunk and declare things not to exist when if very effect they may not exist and can be replicated up to our "Scientific SENSE PERCEPTION, but in my professional opinion it is completly unethical to declare them not possible.

Anything is possible, and you cannot declare anything invalid unless all possible outcomes are replicated negatively systematically.

In the occurarnce of ghosts spirits even aliens, no one knows, but there is a possiblity of everything. But no one I repeat NO ONE has the authority with no proof to declare these things not-existant. Its a matter of personal preference. Everyone must find out within them selves their true self, true beliefs, and ONLY IN THAT PLACE WILL YOU FIND GREATNESS.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Ok way to quote carl sagan there... directly without attributing quotations.

I don't think I've ever read Carl Sagan's literature. If I duplicated a catch
phrase of his then it was a result of like minded thinking... not plagarism.

While ghosts, ghouls and spritis and even fairys are fairytales, they do not exist in mass reality. Therefore, to say they exist definitely is not correct, nor is it correct to say they dont exist. No proof can be established fully wither way.

They 100% exist as man-made concepts. There is no evidence to even
suggest they exist outside of man-made concept.

However, the fact that sense differentiation exists, IE Bats having radar, deers with better hearing, compared to humans etc, this shows that there very well may be other things existing in the world in which he cannot sense.

Those examples are interpretation of sound waves. Human biology does the
same thing... interprets sound waves. I do understand what you are saying
however. Human biology has limitations in what it can sense; however, our
intelligence allows us to build things that that can overcome these limitations.

Microscopes, telescopes, geiger counters, X-Ray imaging, Infrared imaging,
etc. In all seriousness our ability to 'sense' things is pretty good.

As animals have often been attributed to being able to know when a earthquake or some natural disaster happens. This differentiation exists. ANd people that just go around and hog wash all this unverifiable phenomon is incorrect. We cannot prove it true nor false...

Experiments have been performed on this very notion. Animals can't sense
a particular disaster type. What they can do is sense changes in their
environment and this ellicits a natural fear response. If your cat is
consistently acting really freaky then it may be sensing air pressure
differences, low / high pitched sounds, motion, etc...

We still dont know hardly anything about life. We dont understand the simpliest of things.. like dreams etc, what the purpose.. Why humans have to sleep?

We understand more than ever about life and that knowledge will only
continue to increase. Dreams are a side effect of the brain processing
a days recorded information. While the exact reason for sleep is not fully
known, there is alot of evidence to suggest it's a repair function is to
promote survival. With sleep deprivation, animals have a weaker immune
system, lower mental capcity, slower reflexes, are slower to heal, etc.
These are all things that DONT promote survival.

If evolution is so perfect, then why havent we evolved not to sleep when in effect most animals and living species are attacked when they sleep. IE Not surviving to be the fittest.

Who said evolution is perfect? It's not 'survival of the fittest'. It's 'survival
of the most adaptable'.

And just to use metabolic functions for a debunk of this paradigm is reductionist, because if EVOLUTION was correct, and we evolved from single cell organisms, this metabolic function would be subject to change as well as Everything else.

Biological change doesn't propogate just for the heck of it. An environmental
pressure arises and those life forms with the best variations to handle the
pressure are going to reproduce.

In reality we have no clue about why we are here other than the things in which we can replicate and have predicted success. And it is sad that in current science, they debunk and declare things not to exist when if very effect they may not exist and can be replicated up to our "Scientific SENSE PERCEPTION, but in my professional opinion it is completly unethical to declare them not possible.

We have every clue about why we are here. The very nature of reality yields
processes that have resulted in life on Earth. I don't understand the latter
part of the argument however and clarifiaction would be appreciated.

Anything is possible, and you cannot declare anything invalid unless all possible outcomes are replicated negatively systematically.

The notion that 'anything is possible' that is incorrect. It is not possible
that a watermellon with white wings will fly out of your anus at 1:00 p.m.
yesterday.

In the occurarnce of ghosts spirits even aliens, no one knows, but there is a possiblity of everything. But no one I repeat NO ONE has the authority with no proof to declare these things not-existant. Its a matter of personal preference. Everyone must find out within them selves their true self, true beliefs, and ONLY IN THAT PLACE WILL YOU FIND GREATNESS.

It is a claimer's responsibility to provide evidence for a claim. Ghoul's, ghosts,
spirits, goblin's, vampires, the boogey man, the easter bunny, wraiths,
deodanth's, phraint's, water weirds, werewolves, etc... are all in the same
bucket... claim without evidence (and usually contradictory evidence exists
to boot).

 

[water]

They 100% exist as man-made concepts. There is no evidence to even suggest they exist outside of man-made concept.

Is there anything that is NOT a man-made concept?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Is there anything that is NOT a man-made concept?

Touche', anything that has not been thought of would fall in that category.
I think you know very well the relationship difference between a real apple
and the concept of an apple is quite different than the relationship of a
pegasus and... well... yeah.

 

[water]

Crunchy Cat,

I think you know very well the relationship difference between a real apple
and the concept of an apple is quite different than the relationship of a
pegasus and... well... yeah.

Que?

It is not even clear what a "concept" of an apple is, damnit.


* * *

Fromthedarksea,

interesting -- numerous 'concepts', i would say, are derived from empirical indication of phenomena. then concepts would acquire some type of description, then formula, pattern, and code. finally, after concepts have been sufficiently 'understood', they would completely, or rather, be adequately absorbed into the mainstream of institution as 'something'. and, lol, usually that 'something' will no longer be able to revert to its original form after man has imprinted it with his man-made 'concept'!

Yes. Thus, everything humans have, are man-made concepts, based on *some* empirical indication of phenomena.

problem is, who ends up hi-jacking the experience of phenomena, and what understanding of it will he give it?

Brilliant point. The crux of it all.
Write a thread on this.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Crunchy Cat,
Que?

It is not even clear what a "concept" of an apple is, damnit.

D'oh! It's the chemical representation and relation of information
in a brain. That information could be predictive, sensory, ... anything.

 

[terpinator72]

In reply to Crunchy Cat's "AGENDA"

Time is a man made concept. Time in itself doesnt exist, the US Dollar in its true self is worthless.

Everything is realitive, and unfortantely I dont think you understand this. You keep thinking and living like you are currently. Your just the same as those thinkers who said the earth was flat.

You know only what is before you, and that is a sad, sad petty philosophy on life.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

In reply to Crunchy Cat's "AGENDA"

Time is a man made concept. Time in itself doesnt exist, the US Dollar in its true self is worthless.

If time didn't exist then gravity wouldn't have any affect on it. Relativity
predicts gravity slows time and experimentation validates the prediction;
therefore, your assertion is contradicted and time is real.

You are correct about the U.S dollar. It has no value other than perceived
value.

Everything is realitive, and unfortantely I dont think you understand this.

You thought wrong.

You keep thinking and living like you are currently. Your just the same as those thinkers who said the earth was flat. You know only what is before you, and that is a sad, sad petty philosophy on life.

I ask questions, hypothesize, experiment, observe, and theorize. If I don't
have an answer, I don't substitute that lack of knowledge with fantasy. I
fess up and say 'I don't know'.

 

[Stryder]

Time is a man made concept. Time in itself doesnt exist, the US Dollar in its true self is worthless.

Actually Time isn't a man made concept. Nature responds to the passage of time, animals can be nocturnal and appear more active at night. Flocks of birds can migrate during winter and most creatures have specific times of year where they attempt to procreate.

This isn't because of man inventing a clock, sundial, sand or water timer, but the nature of how the earth while rotating moves around the sun and the moon does the same around the earth.

 

[Markquis]

Is there anything that is NOT a man-made concept?

the human was develop from a spirit form , and given a physical body., know we can touch, feel!. the current of life is way obove man's concept .

 

[MadDAVO]

Dear Riku,

Say whatever you want guys, for what i am about to tell is true. There are no reasons for me to lie to you guys at all, I dont see a point in doing that.

I'd say aliens might be real 50-50, due to the fact that universe is so large. BUT ghost are definately real 100%... The story alone is spooky, but here is a description on how they look like. Their body is made out of something like a gas, not very dense though. They dont glow a lot, they look quite dull, so you can see them only if you are close to them, and you have the 3rd eye. They come in different colour, I've seen white, green and black, thats all.

Sorry about nature of this thread, but since a lot of you guys are ignorant and never believes until you see it. Trust me, you wouldnt want to see them, they're earrie creatures. Forgot to add, their face is not very clearly visible. Their body is visible. textures are not visible too. Note that it is very dull, ie. only glowing a little.
Damn i wished I havent seen them before. the thought of it itself is very spooky. havent seen any since about 9 years now.

It really freaks me out... these kind of stuff. But i had to tell it to you guys.. I dont want to hide it especially from a person who have seen them.

 

[duendy]

'sceptic' in its real defnition is one who asks questions, not one wo has come to a decision of closure.......some here's attitude is this: 'ghosts' are not real and that's that'....another poster, claims that, but ten adds 'i don't know'-----so which is i then? IF you don't know you don't know do you? you are scurryingaround in te dark like the rest of us........right?

the other night i saw this programme. it's called living tv, and is all about these paranormal rsearchers who go to haunted houses to see if they can contact ghosts

no weird tings did happen, but my sceptic mind's workin over time. i am thinking 'who benefits'--ie., the makers of this programme dont want nothin happening do they? so could they be making taps and noises etc, plus old houses do creak....PLUS ,and tis is an importnt one thati rarely hear even mentioned:
we are more tan our conscious selves. there are deeper levels to us, called te uncosncious and subconscious. so question:
what effect do our charged expectations have when researcing about ghosts etc?

But one vent on te programme did really impress me. yes they showed 'orbs', and i am aware that some digital camera experts have debunkd so-called orbs. i must just say though that theones i saw all seemed to share a similar feel to them. their movement nd the way they moved. alright dust could show suh a similarity, but thee views were rare events. surely dust in old houss would be more prominent......butwhat impressed me wsn'tthat...........
it wa in this old hopuse, and in a room where a lot of weird stuff, tapping and so on was going on. the presenters were freakin out......you could see tese two smallish rectangular light flassh off and on by this curtain where he tapping was happening. they were intense points of light wit a kind of halo around them. the camera expert people onthe programme hqd no idea what they were. anyone here know?

don't be too hasty

 

[blackwinded]

i believe in the possibility of just about anything. Ghosts included. The existance of ghosts seems very likely and logical to me, but who can know anything for sure.
...i keep an open mind. Nothing is just black and white!

-becka