The responsibility of God.

[Quantum Quack]

Is God ultimately responsible for everything that he has and will create?

Is God the ultimate authority thus fully responsible for all that happens and has happened.

Is having faith in the separation of man and God an act showing a lack of faith in the absoluteness of Gods authority?

Surely to have true faith in God is to know yourself as a part of God and all your actions are therefore inspired by him, regardless of what those action may be?

Persons often state that we are responsible for our actions and of course this is true but our responsibility as an agent of God is one of agency and certainly not principle. The principle entity being God who controls his agents.

Any legal system will deem the Principle as fully responsible for his agents actions and as Gods authority is absolute how can the agent be held responsible for surely the actions of the agent are fully inspired by that absolute authority.

So,
I ask again is God fully responsible as Principle in this relationship?
and if yo feel that God is not responsible then is this not showing a distinct lack of faith in God's authority?

Is having faith in the teachings of the bible and other scriptures actually a show piece of a lack of faith and not true faith.

Was God the serpent in the garden of Eden showing Adam and Eve the truth of their enslavement to the devil?
Is enlightenment the action of a God or a devil?

 

[mountainhare]

Is God ultimately responsible for everything that he has and will create?

Yes.
It is shallow for the creator to blame his creation for it's flaws.

If I were to create a car with faulty brakes, should I rail at the car if it crashes? Of course not. This merely displays an irresponsible attitude.

Is God the ultimate authority thus fully responsible for all that happens and has happened.

If a woman is being raped, and I am stand by and do nothing, am I not partially to blame? Especially if I could easily defeat her assailants?

Evil only prospers if good men stand by and do nothing.

God has the power to stop all evil and suffering. The fact that he doesn't means that he is at least partially evil.

 

[bigal]

Quantum Quack. spot on.

 

[Dreamwalker]

Well, it surely seems like god is "evil", at least partly. Mountainhare´s examples are quite fitting I think.
But it depends on how god perceives us. Without knowing his point of view, one cannot say if he is evil or not. He may have created us as a kind of TV programm (wow, what a great analogy I have there ), and our lifes are just shows for him. He has created us as fictional characters and does not consider our feelings and problems at all, because he has written these things when he developed the screenplay. For him, we are just actors, playing characters that do not really exist. When we die, our role might have ended, just like in a cheap soap opera. Anyway, you do not really feel with the fictional characters on TV, do you? And of course, you do not help them.
And this might be god´s view of us, just as a possibility. Would this then make him evil? Is someone evil because he watches a TV show? Unlikely.

But then again, god might just be a sadistic egomaniac that does not care one little bit about us and likes to see us struggle.

(if he exists that is...)

 

[Quantum Quack]

Whilst I consider yours DW and MH's comments to be quite valid my real intention with this thread is not to pass judgement on the morality of God but to suggest that by believing in the partial responsibility of God we are in fact demonstrating a lack of faith in his absolute responsibility.

To pass judgement I feel is to make allegations that can not be made due to our ignorance of that which is God except to say that he is absolutely responsible for his actions and thus his creation. ( including that of other characters such as satan and the devil.)

The problem is that most persons of faith fail to see that by delegating responsibility between God and Man they are actually failing in their faith in God.

And I ask these persons do they have a complete belief and faith in God or not?

Is the following of the bible actually limiting this belief and faith by the proposition that God has renounces his authority in something he can not renounce that being his creation?

In other words the following of the bible is contra to fully believing and full faith in the absoluteness of that which is deemed to be God.

 

[Dreamwalker]

Ah, I see what you mean. Yes, since god supposedly created all, being omniscient and omnipotend, he would indeed have total responsibility. There could be no real human responsibility, it would all lead back to god. Thus, the idea of choice, of free will would be a lack of faith. Only the belief that we are all cast into our roles, without a choice, one can practice absolut faith.

But can we be unfaithful in such a case? Everything we do and think, would be done and thought by god in the end, thus acting and thinking the way we do should be a form of displaying or absolute faith since we do not have a choice to behave otherwise.

 

[Leo Volont]

Is God ultimately responsible for everything that he has and will create?

Responsible to whom? You need to think of what a creator is? Creation is only that -- a Genesis and then a separation, and then the separate entity is responsible for itself.

What, do you want to sue Mrs. Hitler for all the damages of World War Two because she gave birth to nasty little Adolf. And all this time I thought everyone was blaming him, when it was really his mother's fault -- his Creator.

You want responsibility. God had the responsibility as Creator of the Universe to create a COMPLETE Universe. He could not leave the bad stuff out.

But after Creation, then God can take on the role of Supreme Sorter, and where it would have been irresponsible not to create evil as well as good, as Sorter God can begin the process of separating out and exiling the Evil. First the Universe was Chaos and then slowly it Organizes.

 

[Quantum Quack]

But can we be unfaithful in such a case? Everything we do and think, would be done and thought by god in the end, thus acting and thinking the way we do should be a form of displaying or absolute faith since we do not have a choice to behave otherwise.

and thankyou this is exactly where I am leading to with my argument. In some ways an athiest is more faithful than a person who professes belief in the bibles teaching as being absolute.

A tribesman sitting under a tree loving only the nature that surrounds him has more natural faith in God than the Pope siting in the vatican working through all the contiviances of the bible.

Also the point is that when the logic of God is taken to it's ultimate conclusion he is in fact nothing and everything.........the entire universe in a panthenistic sense and the oblivion that is non existence.

So in the end to have faith in the universe is to have faith in yourself to have love for yourself is to have love for God ( universe).

If the bible is put into context in this manner it becomes a valuable historic account of humanities struggle for self determined "determinism" from superstition and paranoia. The bible is a showcase of the moral evolution of humanity towards a more holistic approach to that which is the universe ( god)

 

[Quantum Quack]

Responsible to whom? You need to think of what a creator is? Creation is only that -- a Genesis and then a separation, and then the separate entity is responsible for itself.

Responsible to whom? Himself of course........who else?

 

[water]

A link led me to a link led me to a link Stephen Hawking said a long time ago:

Eminent physicist Prof Stephen Hawking Saturday said he believed in the 'laws of nature' as 'God'.

Addressing a press conference along with several eminent theoretical physicists at the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research in Bombay, Hawking, replying to a query whether he believed in God, said he viewed 'God' as metaphor of philosophy and believed in the laws of nature.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/jan/06hawk.htm?zcc=rl

Hawking or not, I am making it my mantra: "God" is a metaphor for philosophy.

This explains everything.

 

[Dreamwalker]

Well, I would say God is everything, we are god, a tree is god, a star is god, in short, everything is god and god is everything. And yes, it makes sense this way, not only the bible, but most religious scriptures, no matter if they are of babylonian or indian origin.

 

[Leo Volont]

Hawking or not, I am making it my mantra: "God" is a metaphor for philosophy.

This explains everything.

Hmmmmm. Philosophy is a lot of talk. If that all you think God is?

As for Hawking... you think he would have learned. God will have to strike him down again!

 

[Dreamwalker]

Hmmmmm. Philosophy is a lot of talk. If that all you think God is?

As for Hawking... you think he would have learned. God will have to strike him down again!

Well, in a way religion is philosophy, and no, it is not just talk:


Definition
philosophy [Show phonetics]
noun
1 the use of reason in understanding such things as the nature of reality and existence, the use and limits of knowledge and the principles that govern and influence moral judgment:
René Descartes is regarded as the founder of modern philosophy.
See also PhD.

2 the philosophy of sth a group of theories and ideas related to the understanding of a particular subject:
the philosophy of education/religion/science

3 [C] a particular system of beliefs, values and principles:
the Ancient Greek philosophy of Stoicism

4 [C usually singular] INFORMAL someone's approach to life and their way of dealing with it:
Live now, pay later - that's my philosophy of life!

Cambridge Dictionary

 

[water]

Leo,

To those *who don't live it*, philosophy is a lot of talk. Same goes for religion.