The Problem With Schadenfreude

[BHS]

Occasionally a case of prisoner-on-prisoner violence (in a prison in North America) is so graphic that it makes the headlines. A lot of people read these stories and shrug and say something like, "He was a (murderer/rapist/child molester) and he deserved everything he got." Fine, he was a son of a bitch, and I don't care a ripe red rat's sphincter for him.

Here's the problem: this guy getting beaten or killed only increases the power and prestige of some bigger, meaner con. That's the travesty of these stories that no one ever thinks about. One prisoner's getting what many people may thinks of as just deserts, but an even bigger monster is profiting from the situation.

I believe the detrimental aspect of prisoner-on-prisoner abuse outweighs the (ahem) positive one, and I proposed segregating inmates completely from each other as the solution.

Discuss.

 

[Bowser]

I'm not certain how the prison system works. I assume that it is an extreme example of the larger society, condensed into a small package.

 

[rob k]

Prison culture seems to vary quite dramatically between countries/cultures, but it would appear that disrespect towards prisoners from management and lack of effort to rehabilitate is evident all over the world.

There was a BBC film called Scum that raised the issue of poor management within prisons resulting in criminal behavior.

In Scum the system is the staff who run the system, and they are for the most part incompetent, uncaring and unimaginative. Order will be maintained by intimidation, with few tears shed for the casualties. Staff indifference leads to one attempted suicide (later successfully executed elsewhere), and a male rape overlooked by a staff member, leading to the preventable suicide of the victim. Although the inmate group is shown to be divided, both by 'race' and status within the institutional hierarchy, the deaths of two of their peers underlines a shared hostility to authority and leads to a riot as a protest over conditions.

http://www.theprisonfilmproject.com/Film_List/Scum.htm

Prisoner segregation is the answer, but the costs involved in this would be too great. I think the best solution would be a tougher governing body with a strict code of conduct. The prison system would also benefit from internal investigations of staff and living standards for inmates. The whole thing just stinks of poor man management.

 

[Baron Max]

I propose that we house prisoners in Hyatt-Regency or other suitably luxurious hotels, complete with room service and prostitutes (paid for by the taypayers, of course).

In addition, I propose that any prisoner who complains about the conditions of the prisons, be instantly released back into society so he can try again to be a good citizen.

In addition to that, I propose that any free citizen who complains about life in the Hyatt prisons be allowed to take the prisoners into his own home to live free and happily with the complainer's wife and children.

Baron Max

 

[BHS]

Prison culture seems to vary quite dramatically between countries/cultures, but it would appear that disrespect towards prisoners from management and lack of effort to rehabilitate is evident all over the world.

There was a BBC film called Scum that raised the issue of poor management within prisons resulting in criminal behavior.

In Scum the system is the staff who run the system, and they are for the most part incompetent, uncaring and unimaginative. Order will be maintained by intimidation, with few tears shed for the casualties. Staff indifference leads to one attempted suicide (later successfully executed elsewhere), and a male rape overlooked by a staff member, leading to the preventable suicide of the victim. Although the inmate group is shown to be divided, both by 'race' and status within the institutional hierarchy, the deaths of two of their peers underlines a shared hostility to authority and leads to a riot as a protest over conditions.

http://www.theprisonfilmproject.com/Film_List/Scum.htm

Prisoner segregation is the answer, but the costs involved in this would be too great. I think the best solution would be a tougher governing body with a strict code of conduct. The prison system would also benefit from internal investigations of staff and living standards for inmates. The whole thing just stinks of poor man management.

I agree that the costs are prohibitive, and this is probably the reason that stricter segregation isn't already practiced.

I don't know that stricter man management is going to work either though. As long as prisoners continue to interact they will for power heirarchies among themselves that the toughest prisoners will enjoy, no matter how strict the situation is. And who's to say that stricter treatment won't lead to more accusations of prisoner abuse at the hands of guards? I think it's a catch twenty-two.

The point I want to make: we on the outside, whose taxes pay for the justice system and who's benefit the justice system is supposed to be working for, shouldn't see instances of prisoner-on-prisoner abuse as an increase in "justice" but a decrease. There are vicious bastards in these places who are de facto kings because we let them kick their weaker peers around.

 

[Baron Max]

There are vicious bastards in these places who are de facto kings because we let them kick their weaker peers around.

Well, let's take 'em out back and shoot 'em, then! Why does a society need people like that? What good are they to anyone ...including themselves? No society on Earth needs "vicious bastards", do they?

Baron Max

 

[BHS]

Well, let's take 'em out back and shoot 'em, then! Why does a society need people like that? What good are they to anyone ...including themselves? No society on Earth needs "vicious bastards", do they?

Baron Max

Barring sarcasm, I take it you're pro death penalty. So am I. I consider it to be the highest form of rehabilitation. One treatment, and society is guaranteed that recidivism is no longer possible.

 

[alain]

"I proposed segregating inmates completely from each other as the solution."

ok, lets think about this. after a 10 year jail sentance, only talking to the guards. (lets assume we are talking about a prisoner withno family or friends)

you would barely remember how to speak
you would have no social skills
you would mostlikely be mentally ill
you would have virtually no hopeof rehabilitiating into a normal society.

as terrible as prisoner-on-prisoner abuse is, segregation would be much worse

 

[Baron Max]

If we just shoot 'em all, we'd have none of those problems!!

Baron Max

 

[rob k]

Well, let's take 'em out back and shoot 'em, then!

If we just shoot 'em all, we'd have none of those problems!!

Sorry Baron, but the death penalty is something I'll never agree with.... I don't have a problem with wounding them though

These violent attacks within prisons are most likely gang related, in which case, it's no great loss, but it's the thought of someone harshly condemned and thrown into the frying pan only to get whacked by some psycho that seems unfair to say the least.

Take for example someone who has been found guilty of committing fraud. Yes, it is a crime and one worthy of serving time, but to put this type of criminal alongside a murderer would just be asking for trouble. I know the old saying do the crime serve the time may well be a response to this, but there needs to be some common sense used here.

 

[getts]

"I proposed segregating inmates completely from each other as the solution."

ok, lets think about this. after a 10 year jail sentance, only talking to the guards. (lets assume we are talking about a prisoner withno family or friends)

you would barely remember how to speak
you would have no social skills
you would mostlikely be mentally ill
you would have virtually no hopeof rehabilitiating into a normal society.

as terrible as prisoner-on-prisoner abuse is, segregation would be much worse

you would barely remember how to speak
you would have no social skills
you would mostlikely be mentally ill
you would have virtually no hopeof rehabilitiating into a normal society.

I find this is true of most prisoners BEFORE they go in the slammer!! So, what is the difference?!?!?!

Still, the best idea is to just go ahead and wipe them out.....next best idea is to casterate them and chop off their feet and hands.....then we don't have to worry about it. Put 'em back into society with a $30 wheel chair and quit spending all this money on 'rehabilitation' that does not work!

 

[Mystech]

Still, the best idea is to just go ahead and wipe them out.....next best idea is to casterate them and chop off their feet and hands.....then we don't have to worry about it. Put 'em back into society with a $30 wheel chair and quit spending all this money on 'rehabilitation' that does not work!

Crule and unusual what now?

 

[getts]

Huh????

 

[Baron Max]

Crule and unusual what now?

Yeah, ye're right .....it's cruel and unusual punishment to put people into cages for decades with other violent, cruel prisoners. It'd be best and more humane just to shoot 'em and be done with it.

Baron Max

 

[BHS]

"I proposed segregating inmates completely from each other as the solution."

ok, lets think about this. after a 10 year jail sentance, only talking to the guards. (lets assume we are talking about a prisoner withno family or friends)

you would barely remember how to speak
you would have no social skills
you would mostlikely be mentally ill
you would have virtually no hopeof rehabilitiating into a normal society.

as terrible as prisoner-on-prisoner abuse is, segregation would be much worse

Sorry to be jumping back into the thread this late, but I'd just like to point out that we already segregate prisoners who have a high likelihood of being killed, such as child molesters, and I've never heard of their mental states deteriorating as described above.