The Pope speaks: Muhammad had brought the world only "evil and inhuman" things. !!!!!

[invert_nexus]

Sam,

Practised properly, every religion is a good philosophy of life.

This is, of course, utter bullshit and points a finger towards your overt act of... political correctness. To say such an extreme thing means you are shying away from an even greater (unspeakable) truth.

Do you think Moloch worship, practiced properly, is a good philosophy of life?

What is a 'philosophy of life', by the way?
And what criteria make one 'good' as opposed to 'bad'?

Face it.
Some religions are better than others.

You know. Listening to Durant's Story of Civilization in my car on the way home from work today, it's gotten to the part where it discusses India and it's religions.

Why, if I might be so bold, aren't you a hindu? Do you come from a muslim heritage or did you cast your lot with a foreign religion?

How, oh how, could you give up the many arms of Vishnuu?

 

[S.A.M.]

Sam,



This is, of course, utter bullshit and points a finger towards your overt act of... political correctness. To say such an extreme thing means you are shying away from an even greater (unspeakable) truth.

Do you think Moloch worship, practiced properly, is a good philosophy of life?

What is a 'philosophy of life', by the way?
And what criteria make one 'good' as opposed to 'bad'?

Face it.
Some religions are better than others.

You know. Listening to Durant's Story of Civilization in my car on the way home from work today, it's gotten to the part where it discusses India and it's religions.

Why, if I might be so bold, aren't you a hindu? Do you come from a muslim heritage or did you cast your lot with a foreign religion?

How, oh how, could you give up the many arms of Vishnuu?

Actually we have all the religions in our family.

There are Hindus, Muslims Christians and Zorostrians.
(maybe an agnostic/atheist too here and there, its a pretty large family)

We follow what suits us.

And I should have clarified that all the religions I know of.

I forgot, there are many I don't know of.

 

[Michael]

If the moderates are to be heard, the fundamenatlists should not be given power.

That is all there is.

There are Hindu and Buddhist extremists too.

They just don't have as much power.

Yes, that is true.

Remember when the Tibetan Buddhist monks lit themselves on fire in protest of Chinese occupation? Interesting. I suppose they could be considered Buddhist extremists?

As to fundamentalists; I am not sure why this is wrong? If the fundamentals of the philosophy are sound then a fundamental approach to that philosophy should also be sound shouldn’t it? For example, if one fundamental idea was to never believe anything is absolute and to continually question ones own assertions, wouldn’t that be OK? I for one realize I really don’t know much of anything. But I like to learn so that’s OK!

Also, I apologize if I sounded a bit belligerent - I meant to sound thought provoking! plus I make no bones about being a anti-monotheist. I just don’t like the concept. But I wouldn’t ever say it is misguided of someone to be a monotheist, it’s just not my cup of tea so to speak. For example, a friend of mine is in pretty bad shape. Sometimes I am surprised he is still here, especially this long after his kidney transplant. He’s a fundamental Baptist (Taliban of Xianity I like to say). His belief gives him a lot of hope and takes away a lot of his fear of death I am sure. I support him 100%


As ti Islam the only problem I have is I will have to wait until like after 7PM to have dinner with my friend Mo tonight! Ggggrrrrrr … Ramadan! … And I’m not even sure if he can drink?!?!?!?


Michael


PS: Are you finishing a dissertation or Master’s thesis?

 

[Michael]

Actually we have all the religions in our family.

There are Hindus, Muslims Christians and Zorostrians.

Wow Zorostrians?!? I thought Zorostrians only married Zorostrians?

 

[S.A.M.]

Yes, that is true.

Remember when the Tibetan Buddhist monks lit themselves on fire in protest of Chinese occupation? Interesting. I suppose they could be considered Buddhist extremists?

As to fundamentalists; I am not sure why this is wrong? If the fundamentals of the philosophy are sound then a fundamental approach to that philosophy should also be sound shouldn’t it? For example, if one fundamental idea was to never believe anything is absolute and to continually question ones own assertions, wouldn’t that be OK? I for one realize I really don’t know much of anything. But I like to learn so that’s OK!

Also, I apologize if I sounded a bit belligerent - I meant to sound thought provoking! plus I make no bones about being a anti-monotheist. I just don’t like the concept. But I wouldn’t ever say it is misguided of someone to be a monotheist, it’s just not my cup of tea so to speak. For example, a friend of mine is in pretty bad shape. Sometimes I am surprised he is still here, especially this long after his kidney transplant. He’s a fundamental Baptist (Taliban of Xianity I like to say). His belief gives him a lot of hope and takes away a lot of his fear of death I am sure. I support him 100%


As ti Islam the only problem I have is I will have to wait until like after 7PM to have dinner with my friend Mo tonight! Ggggrrrrrr … Ramadan! … And I’m not even sure if he can drink?!?!?!?


Michael


PS: Are you finishing a dissertation or Master’s thesis?

I guess I'm using the term fundamentalist rather loosely.

e.g. in the Quran (sorry about the propaganda, but I'm better at explaining with an example), there are hundreds of verses which indicate the importance of reason and forgiveness in living a good life. How many of these do you hear? None. Why? Because they do not suit anyones interests. Religion is supposed to be a living philosophy to provide a guide for behavior and social intercourse, not a step-by-step instruction booklet.

The early Islamic scholars (in the Golden period) spent hundreds of years exploring the Quran from all angles and wrote a variety of discourses outlining the possible interpretations of the verses, from the most liberal to the most conservative.

When the Wahabis came to power, they discarded all these and enforced a system of Islam which they defined as "true Islam" based on the interpretations of the most conservative historian. Thats what I mean by fundamenatlists. They explain away all differences from the Prophets time (in treatment of women for example) as distortions of history.


What you define as fundamentals are right, yes if ALL the fundamentals are followed then the practice is sound, however , there are NO directives in the Quran, only ideas. So everyone has to ultimately look at some interpretation or other and of course, that selection is defined by motive.

btw, you might try fasting with Mo

Its a fundamentally difficult but ultimately rewarding experience.

Not just food and water, sex and aggression as well.

Just finished with my courses and some preliminary research. Working for my PhD.

Having slow times right now, between projects.

 

[S.A.M.]

Wow Zorostrians?!? I thought Zorostrians only married Zorostrians?

Thats right, but one of the guys uncles is also a Muslim convert (go figure)

I have another friend who is Catholic married to a guy who is Hindu-Zoroastrian.

Its not that common but not unknown either.

Anyway the guy (my BIL) speaks Gujarati, makes my dad happy since he's from Gujarat and none of us at home speak his language.

 

[S.A.M.]

Sam,


What is a 'philosophy of life', by the way?
And what criteria make one 'good' as opposed to 'bad'?

Realised I missed this.

This is what I would call an Eastern concept, since it seems to be rather random and undefined in the West.

Something along these lines, as applied to your own life:

Philosophy is a rational enquiry into the forms, contents and implications of experience. It is an attempt at a complete knowledge of being in all the phases of its manifestation in the various processes of consciousness. It is the art of the perfect life, the science of reality, the foundation of the practice of righteousness, the law of the attainment of freedom and bliss, and provides a key to the meaning and appreciation of beauty.

 

[TruthSeeker]

this comment proves that you are not objective.

Since when religion is objective?

 

[leopold]

Since when religion is objective?

when someone says their religion is the best they are not being objective.
i was raised christian, it's all i've ever known, but you will never hear me say it's the best religion, ever.

 

[S.A.M.]

no sam they are facts, you just don't want to see them as such


this comment proves that you are not objective.

i have yet to hear you say in this thread or others "in the interest of fairness" or "for the sake of fairness".

Facts? Religion is a philosophy.

And I don't discriminate between religions or insist that people should follow only one.

But since I follow one, it stands to reason I consider it better for me.

Anything else is just hypocrisy.

As I have made clear, I have people in my own family following other religions.

How many of you can say the same?

And I make my views very clear.

I do not need to underline or qualify them by using words.

I believe what I believe. Political correctness is just another form of hypocrisy.

 

[Zakariya04]

Good morning all

I suppose no one is completely objective as we all have views and biases, which is human nature... However some people can be less subjective then others.

I suppose a talking computer could be objective but then again to work things out and to come to an opinion you need an element of emotion and humaness involved too.

 

[Zakariya04]

Dear All

going back to the title of the thread.....

perhaps the piope should have looked at the references to war and that in the bible before making the above statement... the words Kettle, black and pot spring to mind..

 

[(Q)]

Facts? Religion is a philosophy.

So, it's now a philosophy? Funny, the claim is that it is the absolute truth, word for word, no question. If philosophy, then clearly it's manmade and has nothing to do with gods.

And I don't discriminate between religions or insist that people should follow only one.

But since I follow one, it stands to reason I consider it better for me.

Then, you've merely chosen a manmade philosophy, steeped in superstition and myth, extracted that which suits you and discarded the rest, just like every other theist who would claim it is the word of a god.

Anything else is just hypocrisy.

Your choices and what you've chosen IS the hypocrisy.

As I have made clear, I have people in my own family following other religions.

Each of them claiming theirs is the one true word of a god.

How many of you can say the same?

Hundreds, thousands, millions.

And I make my views very clear.

Yet, to anyone listening, they are muddied and contradictive, filled with unanswered questions.

I do not need to underline or qualify them by using words.

I believe what I believe. Political correctness is just another form of hypocrisy.

As is the religion.

 

[Zakariya04]

As is the religion.

Good morning (Q)

i hope you are well..

what do you mean by this are you talking about all religions or just Islam?

########
zak

 

[S.A.M.]

So, it's now a philosophy? Funny, the claim is that it is the absolute truth, word for word, no question. If philosophy, then clearly it's manmade and has nothing to do with gods.



Then, you've merely chosen a manmade philosophy, steeped in superstition and myth, extracted that which suits you and discarded the rest, just like every other theist who would claim it is the word of a god.



Your choices and what you've chosen IS the hypocrisy.



Each of them claiming theirs is the one true word of a god.



Hundreds, thousands, millions.



Yet, to anyone listening, they are muddied and contradictive, filled with unanswered questions.



As is the religion.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=58232&page=1&pp=10

 

[TruthSeeker]

Dear All

going back to the title of the thread.....

perhaps the piope should have looked at the references to war and that in the bible before making the above statement... the words Kettle, black and pot spring to mind..

He was just quoting someone.

 

[Zakariya04]

He was just quoting someone.

dear truthSeeker

how are you and thank you for your post

yes he was, but perhaps he could have used a different reference to get his point across.

######
zak

 

[Baron Max]

yes he was, but perhaps he could have used a different reference to get his point across.

When a few words, even misspoken words, cause such hatred and violence in the region, something really bad is wrong! No simple words should cause such violence and hatred ...which leads me to believe that it's actually promoted by the leaders of those nations. And that's even worse!

Baron Max

 

[Zakariya04]

When a few words, even misspoken words, cause such hatred and violence in the region, something really bad is wrong! No simple words should cause such violence and hatred ...

Hi Baron

thank you for your post

you are completly right

the pope whether his words were spoken or mispoken should not have ended up with a violent reaction from the islamic world.....

Instead of resorting to angry condemnation the islamic (religous)leaders should have got out their books and discredited the popes speech

[/QUOTE]
which leads me to believe that it's actually promoted by the leaders of those nations. And that's even worse!

Baron Max[/QUOTE]


Yes i agree most of the leaders of the muslim world are dictators so it suits them that the pope says these words so they can stirr up the people to vent their anger against the pope rather than any real domsetic issues.

these dictators are masters at diverting attention away from their fuckups


#########
zak

 

[Kiwi123]

Hi Baron

thank you for your post

you are completly right

the pope whether his words were spoken or mispoken should not have ended up with a violent reaction from the islamic world.....

Instead of resorting to angry condemnation the islamic (religous)leaders should have got out their books and discredited the popes speech

which leads me to believe that it's actually promoted by the leaders of those nations. And that's even worse!

Baron Max

Yes i agree most of the leaders of the muslim world are dictators ..

This (oppression by Arab Muslim leaders on their own people) is one of the main reasons it is so convenient for them to shif their population's frustration (with it's Arab Muslim leaders) towards 'blaming zionists' for every Jihadi crime in the world, a favorite "ritual" in Arab street, the Arab Muslim world is so cutely <sick> united in this "beautiful" deed.