The phenomenon of personal attacks in these forums. I think they occur, because they work. That is, when we attack the person, insted of the argument they are making - this can be an effective stradegy for promoting our point of view. But is it right? And when is it right?
The phenomenon of personal attacks in these forums - is it right?
- Thread starter Tortise
- Start date
I think it's just a pathetic way to argue with some one when they don't see your way, and you have no idea how to prove them wrong.
Personal attacks need to be looked at from the source. What lead up to the "attack".
Usually it happens when some one can not clearly get their point understood the way they understand that point.
Then, there are two things that happen.
1. Anger
2. Need to distract the "assumed attacker" in order to better explain their position.
I think it's why so many people seem to point to other web sites as "proof" that some one else is viewing their point in a similar way. Like a "majority rule" kind of thing. "So and so says it is correct, the science says it is correct, there for you are wrong."
Majority kind of thing.
usually, you have to go in to disprove the "idea" what ever it is. But on top of that, you have to get more people and "studies" to help you disprove that.
A common mistake I see people make is using their own perspectives and experiences as facts. Then not having the ability to prove or disprove what has happened.
but then, there are just people out there who are very sadistic. And enjoy watching another trip all over them self.
Personal attacks need to be looked at from the source. What lead up to the "attack".
Usually it happens when some one can not clearly get their point understood the way they understand that point.
Then, there are two things that happen.
1. Anger
2. Need to distract the "assumed attacker" in order to better explain their position.
I think it's why so many people seem to point to other web sites as "proof" that some one else is viewing their point in a similar way. Like a "majority rule" kind of thing. "So and so says it is correct, the science says it is correct, there for you are wrong."
Majority kind of thing.
usually, you have to go in to disprove the "idea" what ever it is. But on top of that, you have to get more people and "studies" to help you disprove that.
A common mistake I see people make is using their own perspectives and experiences as facts. Then not having the ability to prove or disprove what has happened.
but then, there are just people out there who are very sadistic. And enjoy watching another trip all over them self.
There are a lot worse things on this forum than flaming. Hateful propaganda against Arabs, Islam or Jews for example
Mystech said:
yes you win,
peace.
Tortise said:
I don't think that it is an effective stategy for promoting a point of view at all. Instead, it is an effective stategy of making people forget what your point was in the first place.
Personal attack is a last resort; and because of the reaction it has on people it has very little positive effect. I think that the proper test for personal attacks would be a balancing test: Weighing the ability of a personal attack to stimulate positive discussion vs. the ability of a personal attack to foster resentment, bury the real issues, and completely end discussion.
My verdict: the scales clearly tip on the negative side. I think that if people are forced to use personal attacks then, they need to admit defeat on the issues.
Max
i agree max,
but its not always the same reason, i believe some people do it for no premeditated reason sometimes, i believe certain debate subjects and fields of debate etc touch peoples nerves, and they act in a self defensive mode wich is triggered,
sometimes maybe it is thought out beforehand to make people lose point, sometime speople just cant release and vent anger in a proper fashion in there own time, maybe some people just think others are asshols and tell them it straight up (not needed i know ofcourse).
there are many reasons,
but bottom line is that it dosent need to happen, it slows down debates, and its kinda just gay and pointless to be honest, joking about is fine but when flaming and insults get int he way of constructive debate and progress thats when its a problem,
for an "intelligent community" its not to smart,
peace.
but its not always the same reason, i believe some people do it for no premeditated reason sometimes, i believe certain debate subjects and fields of debate etc touch peoples nerves, and they act in a self defensive mode wich is triggered,
sometimes maybe it is thought out beforehand to make people lose point, sometime speople just cant release and vent anger in a proper fashion in there own time, maybe some people just think others are asshols and tell them it straight up (not needed i know ofcourse).
there are many reasons,
but bottom line is that it dosent need to happen, it slows down debates, and its kinda just gay and pointless to be honest, joking about is fine but when flaming and insults get int he way of constructive debate and progress thats when its a problem,
for an "intelligent community" its not to smart,
peace.
personal attacks mean nothing, if an account sees fit to abuse you, dont give it a second thought, do you really care what some pleb thinks of you or has to say about you?
simply do not dignify them, try not to respond, but if you must, be absolutely ruthless, take no prisoners and never stop.
its all or nothing.
i can give you a case study :- i was a member of a forum, and i made a few (no more than 4) threads about politics in the GENERAL area of said forum.
i was deemed to be 'trolling' and was subjected to a tirade of abuse from numerous sources. led by the admins and mods of said forum. i never swore or abused anyone else, in fact, other accounts made political posts in a similar fashion to mine, yet i was singled out for a 'group kicking' - one admin went so far as to alter my signature to make a rather nasty comment regarding myself.
in the short amount of time i had to respond and defend myself i mentioned i had broken NO RULES and that i thought the example the admin/mods were setting to the rest of the board left lot to be desired.
As it stands, i have my ip address banned by this board, but i care little, although i know at least a few of the members there are members here.
PS. i consider the term trolling to be abusive and derogatory, to call someone a troll isnt nice, and ironically tars the name caller the subject of the insult.
simply do not dignify them, try not to respond, but if you must, be absolutely ruthless, take no prisoners and never stop.
its all or nothing.
i can give you a case study :- i was a member of a forum, and i made a few (no more than 4) threads about politics in the GENERAL area of said forum.
i was deemed to be 'trolling' and was subjected to a tirade of abuse from numerous sources. led by the admins and mods of said forum. i never swore or abused anyone else, in fact, other accounts made political posts in a similar fashion to mine, yet i was singled out for a 'group kicking' - one admin went so far as to alter my signature to make a rather nasty comment regarding myself.
in the short amount of time i had to respond and defend myself i mentioned i had broken NO RULES and that i thought the example the admin/mods were setting to the rest of the board left lot to be desired.
As it stands, i have my ip address banned by this board, but i care little, although i know at least a few of the members there are members here.
PS. i consider the term trolling to be abusive and derogatory, to call someone a troll isnt nice, and ironically tars the name caller the subject of the insult.
Well quagmire, you do tend to make an inordinate amount of new threads. This is generally frowned upon. You have only 20 posts yet you must have posted over 5 threads on this particular forum.
well if new threads are frowned upon, how does the forum survive? surely new topics, or new takes on old topics are the life blood of any forum.
Or is this a case of 'certain individuals can make any number of posts or threads as long as they conform to the views of the masses'???
forums cannot be centred around conformity - in fact they ought to be centred around difference of opinion, and the exchange of different ideas.
Or am i posting something that might earn some frowns?
Or is this a case of 'certain individuals can make any number of posts or threads as long as they conform to the views of the masses'???
forums cannot be centred around conformity - in fact they ought to be centred around difference of opinion, and the exchange of different ideas.
Or am i posting something that might earn some frowns?
No, new threads are not frowned upon. Making 6 in one day is.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
This is a community, we all know each other to a certain extent. People sometimes get angry and personally attack people they know. It's normal as long as it doesn't get out of hand.
A community that communicates in writing instead of orally has a tremendous advantage: If you don't like what somebody says about you, you can stop reading it.
And remember, every community has a few assholes. One of the functions of a community is to let the assholes know that they are assholes so they can decide whether they want to heal themselves or slowly become ignored by everybody.
A community that communicates in writing instead of orally has a tremendous advantage: If you don't like what somebody says about you, you can stop reading it.
And remember, every community has a few assholes. One of the functions of a community is to let the assholes know that they are assholes so they can decide whether they want to heal themselves or slowly become ignored by everybody.
usually this is a sign that the attacker has lost the debate, so they resort to personal attacks. that the logic of the victim has prevailed. is it right? this is only for the site administrator or mods to decide. one can debate the morality of it if they like, but inevitably, this is of no consequence. there are different debate techniques online as irl. some are in control of their emotions and can debate logic. some are out of control and resort to personal attacks.
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
I know of no other forum that tolerates the rudeness, off-topic posting, personal attacks, gibberish, unfounded claims, and general trash that is tolerated on this forum.
I feel this absolves me of any necessity to be tolerant of intolerance, polite to the willfully ignorant, supportive of the congenitally thick, or committed to meaningful, educated, erudite, informative posts.
On other forums, under this and other names, I am polite, amusing, thoughtfull, considerate and diplomatic. Here I just like to pick on assholes like Quagmire.
I feel this absolves me of any necessity to be tolerant of intolerance, polite to the willfully ignorant, supportive of the congenitally thick, or committed to meaningful, educated, erudite, informative posts.
On other forums, under this and other names, I am polite, amusing, thoughtfull, considerate and diplomatic. Here I just like to pick on assholes like Quagmire.