The Paul File

[Michael]

Because all they deliver is high value packages.
That's why it's called skimming.
People don't mind paying 10 or 20 dollars to get a high value package somewhere, but they won't pay it for a letter.
But FedEx doesn't have to deliver those low value letters.

So people should pay more to have a letter delivered.

Either you're going to pay for it directly when you pay for the letter to be sent, or, you'll pay for it in tax. One way or another, you will pay. When you subsidize the US Post you make it impossible for FedEx or other carriers to compete. So, of course they don't deliver letters. They would, if there was money in it. You already know this, why are you arguing about it?

Even from a resource POV, you want people to feel the price so that they make wise decisions. If it costs 100 gallons of oil and gas to send a letter to Hawaii, well, either it's very important letter and you'll pay it, OR, maybe you'll send an email instead.

See how this works? Pretty simple. If there was no US Post then other's would deliver letters, the price may go up a little, but, who knows, it may go down in the long run. Either way, the Earth is a limited resource and only the free-market will adequately allocate those resources. We've been divorced from reality for so long people have climbed into their own rectums where the sun shines all day every day in rose scented Bowldom. As KSA runs out of oil, or, we melt planet Earth, then it will become apparent why FREE markets are the best means of distributing goods. I will argue keeping them FREE (as in voluntarism) may require vigilance, but, that's the way it work.

As the Oil Wars end and energy goes higher, then we'll see what happens. Bloated inefficient bureaucratic agencies milking the public to provide service will probably go by the way side, hopefully along with the USD. OR people will get used to a much much much lower standard of living and finally realize... Geee I guess there really is no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[iceaura]

The point being. Most successful cheap efficient and productive human enterprise seems to NOT be performed by the government.

Every one of your examples depends completely on government provided resources, and several of them consist of almost nothing else (the internet dependent ones, the satellite dependent ones, the road dependent ones, the port dependent ones). The people who profit thereby have made use of government services and infrastructure, and now they owe money to that government.

So people should pay more to have a letter delivered.

Either you're going to pay for it directly when you pay for the letter to be sent, or, you'll pay for it in tax. One way or another, you will pay. When you subsidize the US Post you make it impossible for FedEx or other carriers to compete. So, of course they don't deliver letters. They would, if there was money in it.

The only reason the Post Office is losing money is the unusual and targeted pension fund requirements the lame duck 2006 Republican Congress stuck them with.

It's a fine example of that government interference you claim to despise. The goal in this case was to destroy the Post Office and open its market to Fed-Ex et al.

Why does it cost more? It's actually subsidized by the government.

No, it isn't. It is legally required to cover its costs without subsidy.

We should subsidize the Post Office to correct the market distortion caused by its generalized benefits (having a secure, felony-crime protected delivery system on hand for backup pays off to individuals at intervals, benefits the general society all the time, for example). But we don't.

 

[adoucette]

So people should pay more to have a letter delivered.

The people, via our representatives in the Government, disagree with you.

Either you're going to pay for it directly when you pay for the letter to be sent, or, you'll pay for it in tax. One way or another, you will pay.

You pay when you use the service and everyone pays the same average cost to deliver a piece of mail to anywhere in the country. No taxes are involved.

Oh, I guess we could set up an INCREDIBLY COMPLEX system where we kept track of the costs per route and each piece of mail could be individually priced based on the actual cost to deliver it, but guess what Michael, the COST and complexity of implementing that plan would be huge.

When you subsidize the US Post you make it impossible for FedEx or other carriers to compete. So, of course they don't deliver letters. They would, if there was money in it. You already know this, why are you arguing about it?

Because, as usual, you are wrong Michael.
As Ice pointed out, the USPS is not subsidized.
But our representatives in the govt decided some time ago, that the government needed to provide a basic, inexpensive postal system and that everyone, regardless of which State they live in, should pay the same price for a stamp.

 

[adoucette]

I'll make a prediction. Under the current monetary system the rich will get ever more richer and the poor will get ever more poorer.

And if the past is any guide you will again be wrong.

Both have gotten richer.

Both will continue to get richer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_poverty_rate_by_age._Timeline.gif

And remember, this is a poverty line based on CASH INCOME.

The federal poverty line is adjusted for inflation and excludes income other than cash income, especially welfare benefits including housing, WIC and food stamps.

It also excludes help from family, friends, bartering and off the book jobs.

So the actual poverty levels are lower than these numbers.

 

[adoucette]

As for Corzine. Let's make this clear. $1.2 BILLION dollars was stolen.

No Michael. $1.2 Billion was lost by MF Global by making bad investments.
We don't know yet if the use of personal account money was by accident or deliberate.
There is a difference.

It's well known where the money went.

Yes, it was invested in European Debt instruments.
The investments lost money.
That's not the issue.

Money is easily tracked. It doesn't just "disappear".

Again, that's not the issue.
They know where the money went.
They don't yet know how so much of the investor money got mixed with the Company's money, but apparently it is not entirely illegal to do so (the details/limits of this I'm still trying to determine).

Anyone else stealing THAT much money would be in prison for LIFE.

What we do know is it didn't go to Corzine, the CEO.
The money was lost in bad investments on European Bonds.
Indeed, in most cases like this the person I'd be interested in talking to about what happened is the Chief Financial Officer, the CFO.
CFOs actually have to have passed regulatory exams on the issues related to the handling of customer funds vs company funds.
CEOs have no such requirement.

So claiming, based on what we know so far, that the CEO stole the money is simply wrong.

 

[billvon]

Either you're going to pay for it directly when you pay for the letter to be sent, or, you'll pay for it in tax. One way or another, you will pay.

Correct. There is no free lunch.

When you subsidize the US Post you make it impossible for FedEx or other carriers to compete. So, of course they don't deliver letters. They would, if there was money in it. You already know this, why are you arguing about it?

The Post Office is not subsidized for their standard deliveries, Fedex does deliver letters; they are used for both important letters and overnight letters. So your premise is false on all fronts.

Even from a resource POV, you want people to feel the price so that they make wise decisions. If it costs 100 gallons of oil and gas to send a letter to Hawaii, well, either it's very important letter and you'll pay it, OR, maybe you'll send an email instead.

They are feeling the price. The USPS does not receive taxpayer dollars except for very specific purposes, like subsidizing ballot delivery for overseas military personnel.

See how this works? Pretty simple. If you prefer the Post Office, then use it. If you prefer Fedex, use it. Why do you want to ban free choice?

 

[eyeswideshut]

About MF Global, it was "legal theft" AFAIK, customers should have read the fine print, bank was allowed to gamble with other peoples money.
Customers with their money was last in the line, other banks and suchs creditors got theirs first, leaving regular Joes hanging dry... aint that wonderful.

And about the Postal Office, its living with borrowed money last time I checked, about 15 billion or so.
If taxpayers are getting the bill, aint that subsidizing ?

 

[adoucette]

The post office is allowed to borrow money, but they have to pay it back.

Which they do by raising rates.

So no, they aren't subsidized.

 

[eyeswideshut]

The post office is allowed to borrow money, but they have to pay it back.

Yes, and so they try to raise the debt ceiling to borrow some more

Which they do by raising rates.

Or cutting down the service ? Or both ?

On February 23, 2012, the United States Postal Service announced its plans for restructuring its mail processing operations across the country. The plan would close or merge some 223 of the 264 processing plants. The plan closes seven processing facilities in the state of Michigan, including both the Wheeler Station and Main Post Office in Saginaw. I represent City Letter Carriers in Saginaw, Frankenmuth, St. Charles, Chesaning and Gaylord. We disagree with closing plants and reducing service to the point of causing irreparable harm to the Postal Service. The USPS announced this plan in spite of its commitment to Congress to put a moratorium on plant closings until May 15.
http://www.mlive.com/opinion/saginaw/index.ssf/2012/03/another_view_us_postal_service.html

So no, they aren't subsidized.

Yes, thats why used the word "IF", I guess its either that or cutting down the service

 

[Billy T]

I note that the post office is one thing Brazil does very well. About half I use are concessions that pay the government for privilege of providing service (and selling the stamps, of course). Only those are open Saturdays (till noon).

Heavy letters cost more, but go to any point in Brazil for same charge. The PO provides standard sizes boxes you can fill (with no weight charge normally, but probably one exists if packed with bricks).

If your letter is in PO by 10AM it will be delived in Sao Paulo,* no later than the next day and often to a central business later that same day. There are all sorts of modestly priced extras you can request like tracking where your registered letter is by the internet OR getting a signed receipt by person accepting delivery.

FED EX etc, does exist but is not much used as much more expensive. What is common is motor boy private delivery from one business to another of valuable papers in a couple of hours. I only know of one Fed Ex office for all of Sao Paulo but surely there must be several.

For a substantial fee (perhaps $10 extra - I have never used it) you can get 24 hour delivery to almost any city in Brazil with regular air service several times a day. Labor is cheap - they probably take your letter to the airport in only a few hours.

Note a few of my "facts" may be false, but everyone agrees the PO is very good in Brazil. Like banks and most others serving the puplic, there is a special line (window) for those over 65 or pregnant. Metro & regular city busses (not the luxury ones) are also free to the old. Buses between cities have a limited number of free seat for the old also. I think it should be free only during non-rush hour but it is all the time.

 

[iceaura]

And about the Postal Office, its living with borrowed money last time I checked, about 15 billion or so.

If taxpayers are getting the bill, aint that subsidizing ?

As most of that is to cover artificial costs imposed by Congress especially to bankrupt the Post Office, one could argue that the taxpayer who elected that Congress is at least honor bound to pitch in some money.

But they haven't yet.

Prediction: when the Post Office finishes cutting back, still can't pay those targeted pension fund requirements etc, and actually disappears,

the Congresssmen who did that - the Republicans of the 2006 Congress - will not brag about their success to their suddenly deprived constituents.

 

[Trippy]

Here's the thing I find funny about conversations such as this (a similar thing amuses me wrt healthcare).

In New Zealand, we have New Zealand Post which is a State Owned Enterprise, posted a profit in the December half year, and has to compete with DX Mail, Fastway Post, New Zealand Mail, and Pete's Post.

New Zealand Post Group also owns KiwiBank and CourierPost

 

[Billy T]

Here's the thing I find funny about conversations such as this (a similar thing amuses me wrt healthcare).

In New Zealand, we have New Zealand Post which is a State Owned Enterprise, posted a profit in the December half year, and has to compete with DX Mail, Fastway Post, New Zealand Mail, and Pete's Post.

New Zealand Post Group also owns KiwiBank and CourierPost

Yes many countries have better POs. Part of the problem, I think, is the long history of the PO in US being used to reward relative minor, but important, party workers and make jobs.

I don´t know if still true, but ~40 years ago in Paris, you could mail your grocery order early in the AM and get grocers delivered that same eve.

 

[eyeswideshut]

The Federal Reserve Has been CHECKMATED! QE to Infinity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKBU7Tw3cZc&feature=relmfu

 

[Michael]

We're going the way of Japan

Massive debt, increased taxes, more regulation and a lower standard of living. Soon you'll have children working along side their mothers to make ends meet. The rich will get richer and the cattle will continue to moo.

The difference is, we are not Japanese. Their cities are clean and safe. It's common in Japan to walk to school, alone, through a city, at the age of 6 with no worry in the world. In the USA you don't dare DRIVE through some areas of the cities. They have little crime, low drug abuse and a singular culture. We are nothing like the Japanese.

I expect shit to hit the fan as China stops propping up our economy by buying our debt and starts selling to their own emerging middle class. See, this is the crazy thing, these idiot Technocrats base all of their economic models on the Asians buy our debt.... forever. Yes, you heard it correct. That's who imbecilic these dick-faces are. AND, get this, you know what they're selling? YOU! You freaken cow. It's you and your kids labor that's sold off to the Chinese so some psychopathic politician can promise you something today.

 

[adoucette]

My kids walked to Elementary school.

And the poor are not getting poorer in the US.

Take a look at the pictures of homes and tenements in the 60s and compare them to today.

No way is the nation poorer.

 

[Michael]

My kids walked to Elementary school.

And the poor are not getting poorer in the US.

Take a look at the pictures of homes and tenements in the 60s and compare them to today.

No way is the nation poorer.

What, those over-sized McMansions? With both parents working 40-60 hours a week. In the 1960s one person could work and make enough to raise a family of 4. Now it takes both people working and they can barely manage to produce maybe one kid which they send off to day-supervision to allow some stranger to raise their child.

You call that prosperity? You have to be kidding me.

Maybe the city you live in, is indeed safe. But, most American cities have an area that is dangerous. This just doesn't exist anywhere in Japan. Which, used to be the case in most of the USA. Not any longer.

The standard of living is and will continue to decrease in the US. You really can't tap much more work out of the population. Unless the move into their work places and live in dorms working day and night. Other than that, it's hit the wall.... Ooooo unless we put our children to work. Just wait till some Technocrat figures out how best to optimize the play-time of a 12 year old.

 

[Michael]

AND, Japan is screwed too. Their politicians are equally corrupt. It's just a matter of they have a homogenous society that has made life in Japan relatively OK. But, don't be fooled, that has nothing to do with their government. The Japanese government is a bunch of incompetent sellouts just like everywhere else where Statism has taken over.

It's a testament to the Japanese people that their society hasn't collapsed in on itself.

Some of that probably has to do with the fact that they just don't let many foreigners live in Japan. Which, is exactly the opposite of what the IMF told them to do. They were supposed to open the doors and bring in millions of cheap workers. That's how bass-assed backwards and short-sighted Technocrats think. They're so full of shit they can't see it's THEM that's the problem. Statism IS the problem.


It's like I'm a Slave telling the other Slaves that Slavery as an institution is the problem and all I get in return is Mooooooooo..... It's very infuriating!

 

[adoucette]

What, those over-sized McMansions? With both parents working 40-60 hours a week. In the 1960s one person could work and make enough to raise a family of 4. Now it takes both people working and they can barely manage to produce maybe one kid which they send off to day-supervision to allow some stranger to raise their child.

You call that prosperity? You have to be kidding me.

Nope, more people own their own homes and still many parents still take time off to raise their kids.

Maybe the city you live in, is indeed safe. But, most American cities have an area that is dangerous. This just doesn't exist anywhere in Japan. Which, used to be the case in most of the USA. Not any longer.

Untrue.
Kids aren't typically hassled in their own neighborhood, that's just BS.

The standard of living is and will continue to decrease in the US.

Cite some damn proof Michael, your pontificating just doesn't cut it as you have yet to be right about any of your assertions.

 

[spidergoat]

AND, Japan is screwed too. Their politicians are equally corrupt. It's just a matter of they have a homogenous society that has made life in Japan relatively OK. But, don't be fooled, that has nothing to do with their government. The Japanese government is a bunch of incompetent sellouts just like everywhere else where Statism has taken over.

It's a testament to the Japanese people that their society hasn't collapsed in on itself.

Some of that probably has to do with the fact that they just don't let many foreigners live in Japan. Which, is exactly the opposite of what the IMF told them to do. They were supposed to open the doors and bring in millions of cheap workers. That's how bass-assed backwards and short-sighted Technocrats think. They're so full of shit they can't see it's THEM that's the problem. Statism IS the problem.


It's like I'm a Slave telling the other Slaves that Slavery as an institution is the problem and all I get in return is Mooooooooo..... It's very infuriating!

Was it any less corrupt under the Emperor? I don't think so.