The Most Destructive Attitude in Romance

[Lori_7]

Sarcasm, I assume?

I suppose you've never met a man that can pull this stuff off. They make up about 5% of the male population.

They are so few and far between because most men think that looks, money, and a big penis are all that matter. Plus, they don't care about the woman at all...

A man has to be present with himself, appreciate a woman for what she is, and have impecible integrity (which means being true to his beliefs and not bullshitting anyone. If something goes against his values, he doesn't settle to make peace. He might piss off his friends or get fired, but oh well. That doesn't mean be an asshole, though.).

no, i wasn't being sarcastic.

 

[Absane]

no, i wasn't being sarcastic.

Oh ok... I wasn't sure. Most women tend to agree with me, but a few think I am just plain wrong. In my opinion, it's because they never met a real man... or if they have, they turned him away for whatever reason that isn't rational.

 

[Lori_7]

Oh ok... I wasn't sure. Most women tend to agree with me, but a few think I am just plain wrong. In my opinion, it's because they never met a real man... or if they have, they turned him away for whatever reason that isn't rational.

i'm a big fan of honesty, and bravery.

 

[jpappl]

Yes fun. Until she shows her true colors of idioticy. Who would want to have sex with that?


OK so this is what seems to be coming out of many of the post here. It appears you can take 2 guys that are exact dupliates. Except one treats a girl like crap, and the other one cares about her lots. Most girls will claim that the one who treats her like crap is exciting and sexually attractive. While very few and rare girls would consider the one who treats her like crap to be repuslive crap and consider the one who cares to be exciting and sexually attractive.

And furthermore, the one who cares could even be way more fun, interesting, good looking, the whole package of everything any girl could ever want while the other guy is boring and ugly. But because the better guy is sensitive and caring, most girls would be repulsed by him, and more interested in the boring ugly guy who treats her like crap. Yes?

No, your mixing the long term and the short term, the difference between the initial attraction and a relationship.

Most women don't want an asshole or a guy who treats them like crap. But they don't want easy, because it makes them suspicious. Why is this guy being overly nice to me ? must be a weirdo ?

They see the guy who seems to not care about them or pay attention to them as a prize, someone who appears confident because THEY DON"T NEED THEM. The woman in this case wants to prove in a sense to him that she is the one and will want to pursue him. The nice guy is to easy of a catch. They know they have you anytime they want so they are after what they perceive as a bigger prize. Do you see where I am going.

So guy number two, may not be a jerk at all, just knows how to play the game is all, after he somewhat ignores her and women love attention, she can't stay away and if things work out for the good he can open up to her more and expose more of himself (literally) lol. But the point is that women don't like guys who are too easy it makes them seem desparate and lacking in confidence.

Absane is right, you have to show that you are your own man and don't need them, but if they would like, you could get together. You don't have to be something your not, don't recommend that at all, but it also doesn't mean that you have to be everything to them from the start.

Does that make more sense.

I understand your frustration, but you really need to separate the attraction part from the relationship.

You might find that they are what you want either. Are you going to stay with them just to be nice ?

 

[Lori_7]

J, are you talking about faking confidence? It sounds a bit manipulative.

What about true confidence? A big part of loving yourself is taking a good look in the mirror. Everyone has fear and doubt. To overcome them you have to be really honest, strong, and brave. Do it, and you'll have confidence. If you love yourself, you won't be afraid, you'll stand for what's best, and you'll get it.

 

[jpappl]

J, are you talking about faking confidence? It sounds a bit manipulative.

What about true confidence? A big part of loving yourself is taking a good look in the mirror. Everyone has fear and doubt. To overcome them you have to be really honest, strong, and brave. Do it, and you'll have confidence. If you love yourself, you won't be afraid, you'll stand for what's best, and you'll get it.

No, not at all.

And yes, these are good traits, otherwise he will just get led by his nose.

I'm just saying you can't act like you care too much about what she says or does, the acceptance or the rejection. We all know this is tough because people don't like to be rejected.

And I am precisely saying that regardless of the result, you are your own person and if they don't want to go out with you then it's their loss.

Take it like a man and move on.

I mean what is the alternative, make them ?

 

[lixluke]

the fatal flaw being that you label yourself as "the one who cares"

What?

you just want some pussy.

First of all, anybody that "just" wants some pussy can go out and get it from some random freak they don't give a shite about. I'm not discussing that. I'm saying that if you care about somebody, you would be willing to be there to make her pussy feel great.

 

[Anti-Flag]

i think that's an excellent idea, and one that is scarcely adopted in this day and age.

I agree.

I don't think that's the best way to go about doing it. I think you should show interest pretty early on in the relationship or you risk becoming just a friend. I'm an oblivious tomboy so I automatically assumed all guys that I talked to or hung around with just wanted to be friends, by time they got around to asking me out it was too late.

I guess everybody is different. Some people need to get to know somebodies personality before they're interested.

i didn't mean to imply that everyone has an angle. i do think though, that you would have to admit, that most people do put up a bit of a front, or are not 100% honest, or "themselves", when they're trying to get someone else interested in them. my point is, that you should be able to be 100% honest, and yourself, when presenting yourself to someone else. anything less than that would indicated you don't love yourself.

I realise that, I'm just picking at the obviousness of your mistaken wording You should be able to be yourself of course, but nobody is perfect, and generally people are rather judgemental, which often results in people holding back to some degree. You're hardly going to tell someone your bad qualities or problems and follow it up with "but don't worry, I have plenty of good things too", even if it is the truth.

and jpappl, some people do use the nice guy routine as an angle, or as a lie, that they tell women, or maybe even tell themselves. i knew a guy who said that the reason women won't date him is because he's too nice. and after i got to know him i told him that wasn't true. women didn't want to date him because he was a raging alcoholic and a liar who smelled really bad and lived in a shack in the woods. and after that, i of course found out that he wasn't even nice, he was just putting on an act to try to get laid, and it didn't work.

That's just a guy being delusional.

see, when the nice guy routine doesn't work, the guy gets pissed off, and he all of a sudden isn't so nice anymore.

Depends on the guy, and it depends if it was just a "routine" that hasn't worked, or if they were really nice to someone and another person took advantage of that. There's no denying that happens a lot.

women generally (unless they're fucked up) want a man who is strong, brave, capable, stable, and confident. they want to feel safe, comforted, and protected. you can be nice, and be none of those things, or you can be nice and be all of those things. you can be nice and be a raging alcoholic. you can be nice and be a liar. you can be nice and be lazy and stupid, and some emotional mess. nice by itself just doesn't cut it when it comes to sex.

Whilst there is some truth in stereotypes, everybody is different, and nobody is perfect. I think a lot of women look for a hollywood dream guy who isn't realistic and doesn't exist. As far as hollywood goes I prefer Shrek.

and i think that it's safe to say that most people do want sex. they may not have it though for a whole host of reasons.

One of which can be that they aren't a slut and don't go after it of course.

if you don't love yourself, then you should fix that, and not allow your sense of self-esteem to reside on someone else's acceptance of you, or attraction to you. nobody's perfect and circumstances sure aren't many times, but you know as well as i do that some people can just suck the life right out of you. and if it's someone you want to help fine, but that doesn't mean they'd make a good sexual partner. having a bunch of problems and being needy and not being able to cope with life isn't generally attractive. except maybe to some insecure control freak.

Is there a difference between loving yourself, and loving life? I think there is.

no, of course that is true. that's what life is all about. but luke is having a temper tantrum because not every girl in the world wants to fuck him. and i say, well get over it. i don't think that if he liked himself, that he would give a shit about a girl who didn't.

I'm trying to think more generally than luke. It's painfully obvious what his problem is.

people are so damn co-dependent. i swear to god, they can't even finish one horrible train wreck of a relationship before they start another one.

People are social creatures with a desire to mate, how else did you think things would turn out?

that wasn't just directed at you...it's general advice. ladies keep your pants on too.

It's good advice for those that want to keep their pants on, but many people don't want to. Like luke.

Well, it's about opening the door. If you meet a woman and within a couple of minutes hint at the possibility of having sex one day, she can either accept the possibility or flat out reject it. It has to be done from the get-go or she'll likely forever regard you as "just a friend." It is possible to escape the "friendzone," but it greatly depends on the woman and the rest of it depends on whether you have what she's looking for as a LONG TERM partner.

It doesn't even need to be verbalized.. playful touching, flirting, etc.

Generally, you should show sexual interest WHILE trying to get to know her. You also need to be genuinely interested in her... women can sense when a man is faking it. It's intuition they developed thought human evolution to protect themselves from potentially dangerous situations before there is an immediate threat. Men generally don't have this because they are stronger and more powerful in dangerous situations.

If you show only interest in her, she won't feel sexual attraction.

Show only sexual interest, she'll likely get creeped out.. unless she is really horny or a slut.

I think we're generally in agreement here, and luke really needs to take the above advice! I can't believe the poor guy hasn't found someone to fuck him, it's one of the easiest things to accomplish, even when one isn't trying.

There’s nothing wrong with just wanting to get laid. But notice who the hos are attracted to and who they are repulsed by? Attracted to the ugly losers. Repulsed by the nice person.

Dude, if you just want sex then take what you can get, don't go for a "nice" girl because they can see you coming a mile off and won't touch you knowing you just want to get laid. So stop bitching that they don't want you 'cause you're a "nice" guy.
Also consider the possibility the girls you want to fuck are too hot for you and you may need to lower your standards.
Ho's for fucking, nice girls for settling down with. People are one or the other so figure out which you want and target them.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

...if you care about somebody, you would be willing to be there to make her pussy feel great.

To bad all the womans dont realize what a nice guy you are... but mayb youd have beter luck makin you'r case wit a captive audience such as a nursin home.???

 

[CutsieMarie89]

To bad all the womans dont realize what a nice guy you are... but mayb youd have beter luck makin you'r case wit a captive audience such as a nursin home.???

He can't be that nice of a guy, with that potty mouth of his. I can't say being called a ho is the first thing that makes women hot and bothered.

 

[parmalee]

The sheer nonsensicality of this thread is simply too irrisistable for me...


@ lixluke:

Consider this scenario (props to CutsieMarie for the original text which I've modified):

You go out with a girl who would be the perfect girlfriend in every way except physically there is nothing there for you. No matter what you tell yourself to try and get over it, you can't. It's like your body overrules your mind. You automatically stiffen up whenever she touches you, you await her kisses with anxiety. Even talking about any type of sexual contact makes your stomach curl up in knots.

What would you do? Or can you not respond, as the sentiments expressed in this hypothetical scenario are unfathomable?

 

[Anti-Flag]

and Bells got me to wondering. Do straight guys ever have a bad sexual experience with a woman?

Define "bad sexual experience"? Does fucking a fat chick count?

 

[Anti-Flag]

You go out with a girl who would be the perfect girlfriend in every way except physically there is nothing there for you. No matter what you tell yourself to try and get over it, you can't. It's like your body overrules your mind. You automatically stiffen up whenever she touches you, you await her kisses with anxiety. Even talking about any type of sexual contact makes your stomach curl up in knots.

What would you do? Or can you not respond, as the sentiments expressed in this hypothetical scenario are unfathomable?

Basically you mean can he date a moose, even if she's an amazing person? Most people can't. But having dated a few I can't say I've ever felt this whole "stomach in knots when they touch you" thing, that's pretty extreme.

 

[Lori_7]

Define "bad sexual experience"? Does fucking a fat chick count?

Not necessarily.

 

[Anti-Flag]

Not necessarily.

What about a women who wants to shove ants up your asshole?
I'll admit, that wasn't so bad, it was when she brought in the aardvark that things got a bit much.




I dumped her. Still seeing the aardvark though.

 

[parmalee]

Basically you mean can he date a moose, even if she's an amazing person? Most people can't. But having dated a few I can't say I've ever felt this whole "stomach in knots when they touch you" thing, that's pretty extreme.

But this is precisely what 'luke is failing to comprehend: that the "hos" who reject him think him a moose!

Those were CutsieMarie's words from a post on the first page, I simply adapted them. I think I know the feeling she is getting at though.

 

[Lori_7]

What about a women who wants to shove ants up your asshole?
I'll admit, that wasn't so bad, it was when she brought in the aardvark that things got a bit much.




I dumped her. Still seeing the aardvark though.

See? Whatever turns you on.

 

[Anti-Flag]

But this is precisely what 'luke is failing to comprehend: that the "hos" who reject him think him a moose!

Those were CutsieMarie's words from a post on the first page, I simply adapted them. I think I know the feeling she is getting at though.

Oh I get the point you two are making. And it may not even be that he's physically a moose, just an emotional moose.
I've felt what you two describe to a point on an emotional level, someone who's personality is so repulsive you don't want a thing to do with them.
Although physically I've never felt it. Having said that I seem to find people more attractive if I'm emotionally attracted to them. At the time I thought my moose ex-girlfriends were kinda cute. Jeez it's a shock to see them now!

 

[Anti-Flag]

See? Whatever turns you on.

Admit it, that was really funny.

 

[jibbleton]

If you want to be in a relationship with a girl you should approach her for a relationship. None of this covert sneaky become her best friend and hang around for years hoping to get noticed stuff.

I've had grief from guys on a number of occasions because I've asked a girl out and they've been doing this whole nice guy schtick for years so they're all angry at me just for walking up to a girl I hardly know and asking her if she wants to get a coffee.

I don't buy this "girls always go for jerks" thing either, it's perpetuated by the second placers who didn't get the girl and *newsflash* the guy sleeping with the girl you want to sleep with always seems like an asshole, doesn't mean he is one.

Further, what is described as "finally noticing the nice guy who was there all along" can better be described as "settling". She didn't suddenly, after some years, notice you were great. Rather her hope of finding someone better was slowly worn down over time, possibly because you undermined her relationships and destroyed any chance she had of finding Mr Right.

So there's my take on this rubbish.