The Most Destructive Attitude in Romance

Is the attitude described in the OP the most destructive attitude in romance?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 5 20.0%
  • No!

    Votes: 10 40.0%
  • Otter!

    Votes: 10 40.0%

  • Total voters
    25
But, look at Luke. Why won't she have sex with Luke? Ultimately, it's not because Luke is the nicest guy she knows. It's because at the start of their relationship, he has never hinted that he feels sexual attraction to her. Why? He's scared that she will reject him. Ok, so what? Rejection isn't the end of the world. But, why would he FEAR rejection? What's the motivating thing in the back of his mind driving this fear? His neediness.

A need is something that sustains life. If we are denied something we need, we risk death. And trust me, death is very scary.

We need food. If sense that food is going to be scarce, we will get scared. Why are we scared? Lack of food means we die.

We need shelter. If we are stranded out in the desert with plenty of food and water but we have no shelter, we'll freeze to death at night or experience a heat stroke. We get scared.

Fear that precedes an event is a strong motivating factor to hold back. For example, if I recognize that a bear might be hiding in the dark cave, then I get very scared if I try to walk into the cave. If I am scared enough, I won't do anything.

So, again, you think you need sex from this woman. Because it's a need in your mind, your brain acts in a manner that is consistent with possible death in the absence of success.

Stop being so needy. It's a huge turn off for women.

In addition, look at gay men. I'm talking about the flaming homosexual. Why are women magnetized to them? All men are inherently fun, but gay men aren't restrained by the need to have sex with them. As a result, women aren't creeped out by the flaming homosexual and can have loads of fun with them. Sometimes, the two will have sex just for fun in the same way a guy might visit the batting cages just for fun.

Weird, huh?
 
I spent 8 yrs in celibacy, between the ages of 33 and 42, the female prime, and could have chewed through my dining room table at times.

Ulimately though, seeking a relationship with a man that involved a level of intimacy that I had never achieved before, so I stood for that, residing the fact that it, for some reason, wouldn't be possible for me.

I was wrong about that, and I'm glad I stood for what I believe in.

People act ok? About a lot of things.
That's my point though, you went without, so to suggest that all people must have an "angle" and be after sex is a false statement as you yourself prove.:shrug:
Of course people can act, lots of people do and for various reasons, that doesn't mean that all people do, or all people in a certain situation do.



Not sexist.

Men and women alike should love themselves. Its only then that you can feel good about giving yourself to someone else.

After what I've been through I just don't have a lot of sympathy.
Good no sexism, so we can conclude both sexes are weak if they need anyone else to pick them up when they're down because they should love themselves. Does this apply to other things too? Does using medicinal drugs, or therapy make someone weak? Are those believing in god as a crutch weak?

I'm going to disagree with you, from what I can tell periods lacking in confidence are a normal cycle of life, and often triggered by outside events. It doesn't mean the person doesn't love themselves or won't pick themselves up in time, nor does it mean they want your pity and sympathy, just your understanding that an event has lead to a loss of confidence and not to kick them while they're down. Seeing as you're human I doubt you haven't been in that position yourself or that you've never needed somebody elses help so I'm perplexed by your statements.


The question is why does mr. Right want ms. Idiot?
They don't, as I'm sure you realise. We could roll out the cliches of how "love is blind" or "you can't help who you fall for" etc but they have a ring of truth. When people develop an affection for another they rarely see the bad things, and mr. right believes he's found ms. right (or vice versa if you'd prefer) and only realises he's made a mistake when it's too late. Which probably contributes to the high divorce rate. It's also like asking why women stay in abusive relationships, and is probably a self perpetuating problem. They probably need an outsider to stick by them and slowly show them how stupid they're being for sticking around, not pity.
Obviously it can be hard to tell if someone is genuinely down or stuck in a rut and needs help or if they're a faking, manipulative asshole, but I'd rather not tar everyone with the same negative brush just yet.


Keep your dick in your pants before you answer that question.
What my dick does is irrelevant and none of your business so I answered the question.
 
But, look at Luke. Why won't she have sex with Luke? Ultimately, it's not because Luke is the nicest guy she knows. It's because at the start of their relationship, he has never hinted that he feels sexual attraction to her. Why? He's scared that she will reject him. Ok, so what? Rejection isn't the end of the world. But, why would he FEAR rejection? What's the motivating thing in the back of his mind driving this fear? His neediness.
This doesn't apply to luke (who has already made it clear he just wants to get laid) but what about men who want to get to know a person properly before showing sexual interest or getting involved with them? Admittedly though this concept tends to apply to women more than men but even so. :shrug:
 
This doesn't apply to luke (who has already made it clear he just wants to get laid) but what about men who want to get to know a person properly before showing sexual interest or getting involved with them? Admittedly though this concept tends to apply to women more than men but even so. :shrug:

Well, it's about opening the door. If you meet a woman and within a couple of minutes hint at the possibility of having sex one day, she can either accept the possibility or flat out reject it. It has to be done from the get-go or she'll likely forever regard you as "just a friend." It is possible to escape the "friendzone," but it greatly depends on the woman and the rest of it depends on whether you have what she's looking for as a LONG TERM partner.

It doesn't even need to be verbalized.. playful touching, flirting, etc.

Generally, you should show sexual interest WHILE trying to get to know her. You also need to be genuinely interested in her... women can sense when a man is faking it. It's intuition they developed thought human evolution to protect themselves from potentially dangerous situations before there is an immediate threat. Men generally don't have this because they are stronger and more powerful in dangerous situations.

If you show only interest in her, she won't feel sexual attraction.

Show only sexual interest, she'll likely get creeped out.. unless she is really horny or a slut.
 
it sounds like the OP writer wants people to pick their romantic powers using reason alone.

Is that how any of us choose our favorite ice cream flavor or the music we listen to.....?

Romance is also a matter of taste.
 
Didn't you get the point of the experiment? Just suck it up, and ride him. Then see how you feel after that. Call him up. See if he wants to come over and get laid silly. Then come back here and talk the talk. Until you walk the walk, don't say crap. Just do it OK. It will be the most amazing experience of your life. You said it yourself he was perfect in every way. Well you owe it to yourself to give it one more shot, and try something you should have thought of trying in the first place. It's very easy. Just say "Hello. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind coming over and pounding me like crazy." Goodspeed!

I think you might be crazy. That would be a terrible thing to do to someone, just use them like that. I couldn't stand to be kissed, I couldn't take being hugged, and it took so much willpower just to hold hands for a lengthened period of time. I'm not a masochist so sorry if I don't want to torture myself. Besides the fact that I'm already engaged to someone else, someone who I have "chemistry" with in all facets that matter to me. Why would I downgrade?
 
So if a guy is "nice", women OWE it to him to go out with him and have sex with him and look after him, even if he's ugly, boring, not very smart, has completely different interests to them, or smells?

Screw that. I'd rather vomit, fall in it and choke.
 
Originally Posted by lixluke
Didn't you get the point of the experiment? Just suck it up, and ride him. Then see how you feel after that. Call him up. See if he wants to come over and get laid silly. Then come back here and talk the talk. Until you walk the walk, don't say crap. Just do it OK. It will be the most amazing experience of your life. You said it yourself he was perfect in every way. Well you owe it to yourself to give it one more shot, and try something you should have thought of trying in the first place. It's very easy. Just say "Hello. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind coming over and pounding me like crazy." Goodspeed!

Why the hell should she if she doesn't like the idea?

It's her own body, she doesn't owe him anything.
 
So if a guy is "nice", women OWE it to him to go out with him and have sex with him and look after him, even if he's ugly, boring, not very smart, has completely different interests to them, or smells?

Screw that. I'd rather vomit, fall in it and choke.

good on ya.

To me it is like presenting logical arguments to someone to get them to eat something they don't want to.

"But liver pate tastes really good."

"Great, you eat it if you like it, but I don't want to eat it. I don't mind seeing it on the table or nkowing that other people are going to it eat, but I really don't want to eat it myself and certainly not every single day.'

"But you should like it. It is high in protein.......blah, blah, blah"

Substitute a healthier food if you like or any food that you hate.
 
Why the hell should she if she doesn't like the idea?

It's her own body, she doesn't owe him anything.

Yes, I would guess he would not be willing to try getting a blow job from a man because a very nice, giving gay man offers.

Or change the sexual act and person offering to whatever just isn't his thing.
 
This doesn't apply to luke (who has already made it clear he just wants to get laid) but what about men who want to get to know a person properly before showing sexual interest or getting involved with them? Admittedly though this concept tends to apply to women more than men but even so. :shrug:

i think that's an excellent idea, and one that is scarcely adopted in this day and age.
 
This doesn't apply to luke (who has already made it clear he just wants to get laid) but what about men who want to get to know a person properly before showing sexual interest or getting involved with them? Admittedly though this concept tends to apply to women more than men but even so. :shrug:

I don't think that's the best way to go about doing it. I think you should show interest pretty early on in the relationship or you risk becoming just a friend. I'm an oblivious tomboy so I automatically assumed all guys that I talked to or hung around with just wanted to be friends, by time they got around to asking me out it was too late.
 
That's my point though, you went without, so to suggest that all people must have an "angle" and be after sex is a false statement as you yourself prove.:shrug:
Of course people can act, lots of people do and for various reasons, that doesn't mean that all people do, or all people in a certain situation do.

i didn't mean to imply that everyone has an angle. i do think though, that you would have to admit, that most people do put up a bit of a front, or are not 100% honest, or "themselves", when they're trying to get someone else interested in them. my point is, that you should be able to be 100% honest, and yourself, when presenting yourself to someone else. anything less than that would indicated you don't love yourself.

and jpappl, some people do use the nice guy routine as an angle, or as a lie, that they tell women, or maybe even tell themselves. i knew a guy who said that the reason women won't date him is because he's too nice. and after i got to know him i told him that wasn't true. women didn't want to date him because he was a raging alcoholic and a liar who smelled really bad and lived in a shack in the woods. and after that, i of course found out that he wasn't even nice, he was just putting on an act to try to get laid, and it didn't work.

see, when the nice guy routine doesn't work, the guy gets pissed off, and he all of a sudden isn't so nice anymore.

women generally (unless they're fucked up) want a man who is strong, brave, capable, stable, and confident. they want to feel safe, comforted, and protected. you can be nice, and be none of those things, or you can be nice and be all of those things. you can be nice and be a raging alcoholic. you can be nice and be a liar. you can be nice and be lazy and stupid, and some emotional mess. nice by itself just doesn't cut it when it comes to sex.

and i think that it's safe to say that most people do want sex. they may not have it though for a whole host of reasons.




Good no sexism, so we can conclude both sexes are weak if they need anyone else to pick them up when they're down because they should love themselves. Does this apply to other things too? Does using medicinal drugs, or therapy make someone weak? Are those believing in god as a crutch weak?

if you don't love yourself, then you should fix that, and not allow your sense of self-esteem to reside on someone else's acceptance of you, or attraction to you. nobody's perfect and circumstances sure aren't many times, but you know as well as i do that some people can just suck the life right out of you. and if it's someone you want to help fine, but that doesn't mean they'd make a good sexual partner. having a bunch of problems and being needy and not being able to cope with life isn't generally attractive. except maybe to some insecure control freak.

I'm going to disagree with you, from what I can tell periods lacking in confidence are a normal cycle of life, and often triggered by outside events. It doesn't mean the person doesn't love themselves or won't pick themselves up in time, nor does it mean they want your pity and sympathy, just your understanding that an event has lead to a loss of confidence and not to kick them while they're down. Seeing as you're human I doubt you haven't been in that position yourself or that you've never needed somebody elses help so I'm perplexed by your statements.

no, of course that is true. that's what life is all about. but luke is having a temper tantrum because not every girl in the world wants to fuck him. and i say, well get over it. i don't think that if he liked himself, that he would give a shit about a girl who didn't.



They don't, as I'm sure you realise. We could roll out the cliches of how "love is blind" or "you can't help who you fall for" etc but they have a ring of truth. When people develop an affection for another they rarely see the bad things, and mr. right believes he's found ms. right (or vice versa if you'd prefer) and only realises he's made a mistake when it's too late. Which probably contributes to the high divorce rate. It's also like asking why women stay in abusive relationships, and is probably a self perpetuating problem. They probably need an outsider to stick by them and slowly show them how stupid they're being for sticking around, not pity.
Obviously it can be hard to tell if someone is genuinely down or stuck in a rut and needs help or if they're a faking, manipulative asshole, but I'd rather not tar everyone with the same negative brush just yet.

people are so damn co-dependent. i swear to god, they can't even finish one horrible train wreck of a relationship before they start another one.

What my dick does is irrelevant and none of your business so I answered the question.

that wasn't just directed at you...it's general advice. ladies keep your pants on too. :)
 
A gentle reminder to the author of the OP to address the very real matter of chemistry, which he so casually dismissed ("Chemistry is nothing but rationalization. It's a set presumed characteristics imposed upon an individual to justify interest/disinterest.") in the opening post.

What of it, eh?
 
You think that because women don't find YOU attractive
WTF? Who?


Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why women (or humans, in general) do what they do... even when their decisions seem to make no sense? It's quite amazing how humans do some of the most seemingly illogical things, yet we've managed to climb to the top of the food chain and harness some of the most power forces in nature and in the universe. I think we're doing quite well for ourselves.

For example... why does a person lie even when the liar knows for a FACT that he has been caught? Hell, why does a liar allow his body language to display the truth?

Why do people play the lottery? From a purely rational perspective, the lottery is a tax on those that can't do math. Even if a millionaire bought every combination of ticket to guarantee a win, he'd lose money even before taxes are taken from the winnings.

Why do you collection welfare when you know that you can make more money building a doghouse for the elderly woman down the street?

There is an explanation that makes total sense... provided you look hard enough to find the reasons.

Look at women. Why would Alice feel a deep friendship with Luke but never dare have a sexual relationship with him? But then she meets Rob, has sex with Rob, and then later perhaps dump Rob because she thinks he's a total asshole?

First off, Alice may unconsciously feel attraction for assholes like Rob for whatever reason... maybe she's convinced herself that she can only have people like Rob. Whatever. There are decent guys out there that she could have a sexual relationship from, but she's unconsciously closed off from them.

But, look at Luke. Why won't she have sex with Luke? Ultimately, it's not because Luke is the nicest guy she knows. It's because at the start of their relationship, he has never hinted that he feels sexual attraction to her. Why? He's scared that she will reject him. Ok, so what? Rejection isn't the end of the world. But, why would he FEAR rejection? What's the motivating thing in the back of his mind driving this fear? His neediness.

A need is something that sustains life. If we are denied something we need, we risk death. And trust me, death is very scary.

We need food. If sense that food is going to be scarce, we will get scared. Why are we scared? Lack of food means we die.

We need shelter. If we are stranded out in the desert with plenty of food and water but we have no shelter, we'll freeze to death at night or experience a heat stroke. We get scared.

Fear that precedes an event is a strong motivating factor to hold back. For example, if I recognize that a bear might be hiding in the dark cave, then I get very scared if I try to walk into the cave. If I am scared enough, I won't do anything.

So, again, you think you need sex from this woman. Because it's a need in your mind, your brain acts in a manner that is consistent with possible death in the absence of success.

Stop being so needy. It's a huge turn off for women.

Ask yourself one question: if, starting TODAY, no woman would ever find you sexually attractive ever again, could you still be completely in love with your life, even then?

Really think about this. You might first say "yes," but the impression I get from your posts in this thread say "no." After all, if your answer were "yes" then you wouldn't feel a need to complain about not getting what you desire from a woman.
People play lottery so they can win big money. Here's how it works. You buy one ticket, and win lots and lots of money.

What kind of guy would live a happy life if girls didn't find them sexy?

As for the rest of your post, what the hell are you talking about? Food and shelter is great. Also growth and learning. But what about the need for intimacy and hot intimate sex?


In addition, look at gay men. I'm talking about the flaming homosexual. Why are women magnetized to them? All men are inherently fun, but gay men aren't restrained by the need to have sex with them. As a result, women aren't creeped out by the flaming homosexual and can have loads of fun with them. Sometimes, the two will have sex just for fun in the same way a guy might visit the batting cages just for fun.

Weird, huh?
I find it commendable when sex isn't taken so seriously and seen as a fun activity like hitting balls in a cage. And I'm sure the gay guys are just as nice. But what if a person had all the great characteristics of the gay guy? Fun, friendly, interesting, caring, sensitive, kind, good-looking etc. But was completely straight and actually loves vagina? This is what is called Mr. Right. He is a great fun interesting caring person. Not manipulative. But girls never get to see it. All because “There’s just no chemistry. IOW I’m just not sexually attracted to you.” All because straight people who are nice and interesting are framed evil, boring, manipulative, and unattractive. While the hos throw themselves at the manipulative boring ones. No?


who has already made it clear he just wants to get laid
There’s nothing wrong with just wanting to get laid. But notice who the hos are attracted to and who they are repulsed by? Attracted to the ugly losers. Repulsed by the nice person.


I think you might be crazy. That would be a terrible thing to do to someone, just use them like that. I couldn't stand to be kissed, I couldn't take being hugged, and it took so much willpower just to hold hands for a lengthened period of time. I'm not a masochist so sorry if I don't want to torture myself.
As I have stated, there is nothing more absurd than using the rationalization that you are doing bad to somebody when it is completely up to them to decide whether it is good or not. The only terrible thing would be is if he said no about the experiment, and you went ahead and raped him anyway just to get data for us. But if he says “Hell yes! This is a great endeavor and the best experiment ever.” there is nothing terrible about it at all. You’re not torturing yourself. This is not an experiment is masochism. WTF? You are completely digressing from the whole point of the experiment. This is a science forum. Not love speculation shack. We need objective data to gain insight into our claims. If you had went all the way with him in the first place, then posted comments the same comments on how everything went wrong, we would have something to actually work with. Because according to my countless hours bookstore research, it’s always sparks and happiness for all when the girl wakes up to what has always been right in front of her, and has the most mind-blowing sex with him.


So if a guy is "nice", women OWE it to him to go out with him and have sex with him and look after him, even if he's ugly, boring, not very smart, has completely different interests to them, or smells?
No. Gross. WTF?


see, when the nice guy routine doesn't work, the guy gets pissed off, and he all of a sudden isn't so nice anymore.
No. Genuinely nice people get all pissed off after they are treated like shit and completely disrespected by the crusty ugly hos that they have been nothing but kind and caring to.
 
luke,

you think that "just trying to get laid" by girls that you then turn around and call "crusty ugly hos" is NICE?

you're not nice. and even if you were, who cares? "nice" is no reason to screw somebody.

BE A MAN!
 
Lori,

see, when the nice guy routine doesn't work, the guy gets pissed off, and he all of a sudden isn't so nice anymore.

You mean like Lix here. LOL.

women generally (unless they're fucked up) want a man who is strong, brave, capable, stable, and confident. they want to feel safe, comforted, and protected. you can be nice, and be none of those things, or you can be nice and be all of those things. you can be nice and be a raging alcoholic. you can be nice and be a liar. you can be nice and be lazy and stupid, and some emotional mess. nice by itself just doesn't cut it when it comes to sex.

and i think that it's safe to say that most people do want sex. they may not have it though for a whole host of reasons.

From what I have come to learn over the years this is true.
 
Lix,

I asked before if you are a virgin and after reading your diatribe against women I know the answer.

Listen, get into a relationship and have sex, protected. Stop ranting about all women that don't somehow know what a nice guy you are and what a great mate you could be for them, being hos and skanks. They aren't.

There are some ho's, real ones, you could get one for a few bucks.

Most women are way smarter than that. They aren't looking for sex for money. They are looking to get a lot more from you than that. They want the whole damn bank account not because they are hos, but because they want security and think long term, they are the ones that will be pregnant and want their sh*t in order before that. The smart ones anyway.

My wife's grandmother told her to stop giving away the milk for free when he could by the cow, LOL.

So chill out on the all women are whores because you are just being way to idealistic of how relationships and attraction works.

It's the same for women, how do you think a really nice, decent and smart but average looking girl feels when the good looking guy she likes keeps going for the pretty ones.

Are all men scum because this guy wants the pretty ones. No, it's just how we are wired.

So understand what women want and give it to them, otherwise don't be suprised when they turn you into their friend or reject you as their lover.

If you are a virgin, which I think you are and there is nothing wrong with that, we all were at some point.

Go find a girl and get laid, it will change you entire perspective.
 
luke,

you think that "just trying to get laid" by girls that you then turn around and call "crusty ugly hos" is NICE?

you're not nice. and even if you were, who cares? "nice" is no reason to screw somebody.

BE A MAN!

Yes, the irony huh.

He sounds to me like he is just sexually frustrated and his energy is being mis-directed.
 
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