The light is in our eyes...

Seattle said:
Sight is a mental construct. What else would it be? That has no bearing on the existence of what is out there however. The tree is there whether you see it or not.
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Exactly .

Further how does sight , as a mental construct , see past the Bark , of the tree ? QQ
 
Eyes do not see. They are tools the brain uses. The brain sees.
The brain constantly constructs visuals from present & past info & the brain's basic programming. It is not 100% accurate.
When the eyes close, the brain continues to try to see. Dreams are constructed by the brain with extremely little or no current input.

It is not only light theory but mainly how the brain functions.

<>
 
StrangerInAStrangeLa said:
Eyes do not see. They are tools the brain uses. The brain sees.
The brain constantly constructs visuals from present & past info & the brain's basic programming. It is not 100% accurate.
When the eyes close, the brain continues to try to see. Dreams are constructed by the brain with extremely little or no current input.

It is not only light theory but mainly how the brain functions.

<>
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this is a necessary outcome compelled by the currently held scientific understanding of theories on light propagation.

Personally I don't believe for a moment that 8 billion brains can somehow compute the enormous amount of data to render a consistent and collectively shared world view.

It is impossible for the human brain no matter how big to perform that sort of reconstruction in real time so quickly given that it has other functions to perform simultaneously.

The sort of processing involved as you move your gaze from one side to the other is utterly staggering and then to suggest that 8 billion people can do the same thing in a way that is highly consistent is supremely absurd. IMO

BUT .. that appears to be what Science currently holds to... and I can accept that they do...
 
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Quantum Quack said:
Personally I don't believe for a moment that 8 billion brains can somehow compute the enormous amount of data to render a consistent and collectively shared world view.
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I agree, there are 8 billion perspectives of the available data, ranging from the scientific to the insane.

There was a discussion once by a person who proposed that we see the sun before its light is observed by the eye (about 8 minutes) Riddle me that one.
 
Quantum Quack said:
this is a necessary outcome compelled by the currently held scientific understanding of theories on light propagation.

Personally I don't believe for a moment that 8 billion brains can somehow compute the enormous amount of data to render a consistent and collectively shared world view.
Click to expand...


Water is water QQ. AIR is Air , Fire is Fire , Soil is Soil .


It is impossible for the human brain no matter how big to perform that sort of reconstruction in real time so quickly given that it has other functions to perform simultaneously.

The sort of processing involved as you move your gaze from one side to the other is utterly staggering and then to suggest that 8 billion people can do the same thing in a way that is highly consistent is supremely absurd. IMO

BUT .. that appears to be what Science currently holds to... and I can accept that they do...
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You are wrong QQ.
 
Nacho said:
I wouldn't agree it is an illusion unless your (my) senses are in collusion with each other. Look at an object, and then go feel that object. Does what you see of the object conform to what you felt of it?
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Usually your touch matches your vision.

But there is a lot of science devoted to exploring that our perceptions are VERY far from an accurate depiction of the real world. Some studies suggest that as much as 90% of the visual information we think we see is actually delivered to us by our own brains to fill in the gaps.

The entire field of optical illusions is based on the disconnect between what is actually out there and what our brains make us think is out there.

Surely you've done the blind spot test? This is an easy one to prove that your brain lies to you about what you're seeing, every minute of every day.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Usually your touch matches your vision.

But there is a lot of science devoted to exploring that our perceptions are VERY far from an accurate depiction of the real world. Some studies suggest that as much as 90% of the visual information we think we see is actually delivered to us by our own brains to fill in the gaps.

The entire field of optical illusions is based on the disconnect between what is actually out there and what our brains make us think is out there.

Surely you've done the blind spot test? This is an easy one to prove that your brain lies to you about what you're seeing, every minute of every day.
Click to expand...

Hmmm....can you swim ?
 
Quantum Quack said:
this is a necessary outcome compelled by the currently held scientific understanding of theories on light propagation.

Personally I don't believe for a moment that 8 billion brains can somehow compute the enormous amount of data to render a consistent and collectively shared world view.

It is impossible for the human brain no matter how big to perform that sort of reconstruction in real time so quickly given that it has other functions to perform simultaneously.

The sort of processing involved as you move your gaze from one side to the other is utterly staggering and then to suggest that 8 billion people can do the same thing in a way that is highly consistent is supremely absurd. IMO

BUT .. that appears to be what Science currently holds to... and I can accept that they do...
Click to expand...
.

It does not matter how many brains there are. Whatever 1 brain can do, it is reasonable that 8 billion brains might be able to do.


With nearly the same basic program & nearly the same input, the results should be extremely consistent.

It is not quite in real time but close enough for this discussion.

At the time, it seems impossible to have a computer do such processing. It is a wonderful intriguing thing. But it seems no more impossible than hundreds of other natural things. We do not yet completely understand it.

<>
 
Write4U said:
I agree, there are 8 billion perspectives of the available data, ranging from the scientific to the insane.

There was a discussion once by a person who proposed that we see the sun before its light is observed by the eye (about 8 minutes) Riddle me that one.
Click to expand...
.

Yes. In order to see, the brain must have input. Without light, what is the input?

<>
 
DaveC426913 said:
Usually your touch matches your vision.

But there is a lot of science devoted to exploring that our perceptions are VERY far from an accurate depiction of the real world. Some studies suggest that as much as 90% of the visual information we think we see is actually delivered to us by our own brains to fill in the gaps.

The entire field of optical illusions is based on the disconnect between what is actually out there and what our brains make us think is out there.

Surely you've done the blind spot test? This is an easy one to prove that your brain lies to you about what you're seeing, every minute of every day.
Click to expand...
I'm sure there are ways to fool your other senses too, some of the time. But it's not an illusion all the time, as the post I was replying to inferred:

QQ --> "So can we agree that mainstream scientific thought is that the visual universe is essentially a mental construction based on data entering our eyes. That the perception of "out there" is an illusion premised on that data and constructed subjectively from that data by our brain?"
 
Nacho said:
I'm sure there are ways to fool your other senses too, some of the time. But it's not an illusion all the time, as the post I was replying to inferred:
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Right. The problem is, if parts of your vision are an illusion all the time, that means it can never be said that what you see is fully accurate.
It is never fully accurate.

Everything you look at, for as long as your eyes are open, is at least in part (and by some reckonings, a large part) not accurate.

The screen you are looking at right now, is partly made up by your brain. Parts of it are simply not there, and your brain subs them in, so you don't freak out.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Usually your touch matches your vision.

But there is a lot of science devoted to exploring that our perceptions are VERY far from an accurate depiction of the real world. Some studies suggest that as much as 90% of the visual information we think we see is actually delivered to us by our own brains to fill in the gaps.

The entire field of optical illusions is based on the disconnect between what is actually out there and what our brains make us think is out there.

Surely you've done the blind spot test? This is an easy one to prove that your brain lies to you about what you're seeing, every minute of every day.
Click to expand...
It is an interesting subject. Seeing is mainly done in the brain. We think we have great sight but our visual acuity is really limited to a small portion of the center of our field of vision. The brain fills in most of what we are "seeing".
 
There is one example that comes to mind ( w\quickly as I have to sign off for a few hours)
In the days when people believed the Earth was flat.
Did their visual systems build a flat Earth? or did they simply fail to discern that there was curvature in their view?
If the visual world was a construct then wouldn't the world be seen as flat as well as discerned as flat?
 
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