The Importance of Action

[Gently Passing]

For all the talk of Who's damned and Who's saved, who reaches enlightenment and how...

I'm amazed at how few people actually discuss action as a key component of any religion.

I would argue (and I'm sure you can find examples by Jesus, Muhammed, Buddha and the like) that the non-acting religious are the fakes, the phonies, the imposters, those turned away, reborn as horse flies, or sent to the furnace of Hell depending on your faith.

Why? Focusing on Salvation (Enlightenment, etc.) is selfish.

It doesn't matter if you are Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, Jain...whatever you are religious practice has to do with how you relate to people, how your religion affects your relationships.

So you have a personal relationship with Jesus. :shrug:

How do you treat others? With compassion or judgment?

And practitioners of any religion can be equally shallow.

Religion challenges us to face courageously a world in which behaving as your Self (God, Buddha-nature, whatever) reveals (through religious practice) that you behave...that you will appear strange, foolish, and may even be up against violence for believing what you believe.

So?

Most practitioners (if not all of us) struggle with that courage - of having the nuts to be Christlike, Buddha-like, whatever...

We're too afraid of what people with think of us, what might happen if we really do all of that crazy stuff, like treating others as you would have them treat you (you'll find a version in every major religion, I guarantee you.)

So what's more important? The Trinity, the Free Will Debate (theological masturbation), or simply reaching out to your neighbors, to people who may even despise you and your fancy faith?

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

When the disciples asked Jesus basically the same question, Jesus stood up and washed each of the disciple´s feet. Saying at last: "the last will be the first".
Also, you will find in almost every major religion the same thing, were the Master puts himself below the disciples, to explain the point that nobody is above anybody. A very good way of saying: that it doesn´t matter who you are, nobody is better or higher than anybody else.

 

[spidergoat]

Actions are a part of life. You can't not act. Right action comes from right mind. If your mind is confused, wrong action will result.

 

[Cris]

The Wicca religion has probably the best perspective on relationships -

While harming none, do what you will.

This is a version of the Golden rule that is a variation of the more popular version found in most religions. Christianity takes a different version of direct actions - do to others what you would have them do to you. The trouble with that version is that others might not agree with what you have unilaterally determined is good action. This is the unfortunate aspect of evangelistic religions that force themselves on others.

The live and let live approach or the do whatever you wish but don't harm others persepctive is far more passive and far less offensive. In this case there is no demand that you take action to help others whether they want help or not. Action is only demanded by some assertive religions because it is part of their rules for how you qualify for salvation (helping others for pure selfish reasons), e.g. Christianity. For most of us who aren't Christian this becomes offensive.

whatever you are religious practice has to do with how you relate to people, how your religion affects your relationships.

Why should it be that way?

 

[greenberg]

Why? Focusing on Salvation (Enlightenment, etc.) is selfish.

That's rather presumptuous. You seem to imply that focusing on enlightenment means one is neglecting or even harming others.

I don't see how focusing on enlightenment would in any way whatsoever mean that one neglects or even harms others.

 

[Photizo]

Action is only demanded...because it is part of their rules for how you qualify for salvation (helping others for pure selfish reasons), e.g. Christianity.

You were BORN QUALIFIED for salvation...and given that, there is nothing you can do to earn it. It has been given to you as a gift. Refusing this gift is your decision.

 

[Cris]

Photizo,

You were BORN QUALIFIED for salvation...and given that, there is nothing you can do to earn it.

Ahh yes an easy mistake. The most vile murderer must pledge allegiance to the Christian savior at least before he dies to gain access to heaven, while the most moral non-believer must die. I wonder why many find Christianity so confusing?

It has been given to you as a gift.

You mean like John 3:16? That God so loved the world that he gave his only son that we might live.

That would have been quite a gift if the son had actually been lost forever, what an incredible gift that would have been, that the creator of the universe would have sacrificed his immortal and only son for humanity.

But of course no such sacrifice took place. The son was apparently resurrected after a couple of days and such a short time is insignificant to one who is infinite. And of course such a god, being omniscient, would have known no real harm or loss would be incurred. So just exactly what gift and sacrifice has your god really donated that we must follow him? It would seem that since his son is not lost at all then no real sacrifice has taken place and this assertion of a wonderful gift is merely a farce and excuse for your god to kill and condemn billions of people who do not accept such a farce.

Refusing this gift is your decision.

Well, there’s the real issue, what gift?

 

[Photizo]

Ahh yes an easy mistake. The most vile murderer must pledge allegiance to the Christian savior at least before he dies to gain access to heaven, while the most moral non-believer must die. I wonder why many find Christianity so confusing?

The Word of God states "there is none righteous, no, not one"...so...anyone who is honest with themself will realize this to be true. Looking into the 'mirror' of The Law (for purposes here, the ten commandments) one sees, not their 'beauty' but how utterly disfigured they are...so, whether one is a vile murderer, or an immoral unbeliever (God is no respecter of persons) all have equal access to Salvation.

But of course no such sacrifice took place.

Patently false.

The son was apparently resurrected after a couple of days and such a short time is insignificant to one who is infinite.

lol. You, being finite, have absolutely no way of knowing if or not such is/was the case. The facts are He died, rose again, commisioned the apostles to announce forgiveness on the basis of this same sacrifice and to teach others to tell and teach others also...and so the message is with us even now.

 

[Cris]

Photizo,

But of course no such sacrifice took place. ”

Patently false.

Then what is the sacrifice, what has been lost?

The son was apparently resurrected after a couple of days and such a short time is insignificant to one who is infinite. ”

lol. You, being finite, have absolutely no way of knowing if or not such is/was the case.

You mean the bible is lying when it states he was resurrected on the third day? And your god is not omniscient (all knowing) then?

The facts are He died, rose again,

So the sacrifice didn’t take, he bounced back like lightning, and God in his omniscience would know this was going to happen right? He knows everything right?

commisioned the apostles to announce forgiveness on the basis of this same sacrifice

What sacrifice? Nothing has been lost, and nothing has been given up, there was no gift.

and to teach others to tell and teach others also...and so the message is with us even now.

Yes very nice, but it depends on an actual sacrifice for this to make sense. Please show what has been lost to a sacrifice of any significant nature.

 

[Photizo]

Photizo,

Then what is the sacrifice, what has been lost?

You mean the bible is lying when it states he was resurrected on the third day? And your god is not omniscient (all knowing) then?

So the sacrifice didn’t take, he bounced back like lightning, and God in his omniscience would know this was going to happen right? He knows everything right?

What sacrifice? Nothing has been lost, and nothing has been given up, there was no gift.

Yes very nice, but it depends on an actual sacrifice for this to make sense. Please show what has been lost to a sacrifice of any significant nature.

:zzz:

 

[Cris]

Photizo,

So by your attempt to feign boredom I see that you are totally stumped by my insights and are unable to offer a reasoned response.

Finally you realize that the whole of Christianity is based on a deceitful farce.

 

[Photizo]

Photizo,

So by your attempt to feign boredom I see that you are totally stumped by my insights and are unable to offer a reasoned response.

Finally you realize that the whole of Christianity is based on a deceitful farce.

You just can't keep from lying to yourself...it must be in your DNA, hmm? If the lies don't quite convince, you then elicit the help of your imagination by compounding/re-enforcing your self deception with fantasy stories.

 

[Cris]

Photizo,

You just can't keep from lying to yourself...it must be in your DNA, hmm? If the lies don't quite convince, you then elicit the help of your imagination by compounding/re-enforcing your self deception with fantasy stories.

I note you are still unable to answer the question of where was the sacrifice. It is the basis of your beliefs and shouldn't be difficult for you.

Are you avoiding an answer because you truly are totally stumped?

 

[Photizo]

Photizo,

I note you are still unable to answer the question of where was the sacrifice. It is the basis of your beliefs and shouldn't be difficult for you.

Are you avoiding an answer because you truly are totally stumped?

I'm sorry, but until you can get your story/facts straight any further discussion along these lines is pointless.

 

[Cris]

Photizo,

I'm sorry, but until you can get your story/facts straight any further discussion along these lines is pointless.

What is non-factual about my observations?

The issue is very simple - the claim is he died and was reassurected - there was hence no loss and hence no sacrifice to warrant a religion or adulation.

If you cannot defend this basis of your belief I suspect very strongly that you have never thought this through and have only accepted the Christian principle through indoctrination and mindlessness. I also suspect you cannot find any scriptures that help you out of this paradox.

You must face this irrefutable conclusion that your religion is based on a farce.