The Impeachment of President Trump

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There are a couple things about this assessment worth noting:

The entirety of the surprisingly short White House argument is online … and I think it's fair to say it is not an impressive document. Paul Waldman joked, "[It] reads as though it was written by a ninth-grader who saw an episode of Law & Order and learned just enough legal terms to throw them around incorrectly."

But while it's true that most of the missive was familiar palaver, there was one element worth dwelling on.

At the top of the document's second full page, the president's lawyers argued that the first article of impeachment approved by the House "fails on its face to state an impeachable offense." It's a curious argument: the first article of impeachment charges Trump with abusing the powers of his office. By the White House's latest reasoning, that's not something a president can or should be impeached for having done.


(Benen↱)

The latter point is striking, and for those accustomed to the ways of superficial political back-and-forthing it becomes difficult to chain this one to an anchor, not for any lack of line or even boat, but because there is such a plethora of anchors littering the sound like detritus, we can choose, "Oh, let's go with that one," and someone else can say—

「Which one? I can't tell which one you mean? Sure, you say you're pointing to it on the map but I'm looking all around and I just can't see what you're pointing at. You say it's the fourth one from the left, but which fourth and what is left?」

—pretty much whatever comes to mind. For instance, it's one thing to recall decades of GOP and conservative complaint how Democrats and socialists and liberals and radicals were all corrupt, and our point that Republicans are describing themselves. No, really, here are a few examples. These days, all a conservative need do is pretend ignorance.

But think back on Republican complaints that government just doesn't work, or that Democrats and liberals and socialists and radicals are all just corrupt. Turns out those conservaties were describing themselves. On corruption and dysfunction, what can anyone say when the argument requires that abuse of office is not an impeachable offense?

And wait for conservatives to pretend they don't recall those days, or Reaganesque sentimment about nine words they used to quote like scripture.

But it's true, the logical consequences of Donald Trump's argument include that abusing public office is not grounds for removal, and is not even impeachable.

So … what was all that about Obama's Watergate, over the years? And and the chatter about impeaching Obama? Think of it this way: What is impeachable? Say what we will about Bill Clinton's predatory behavior, but that was not a sincere impeachment, because very few actually wanted to set the standard of removing a president for (¡ahem!) lying about an extramarital affair; the point was to exploit the alleged victims anew in order to embarrass political opponents, and then just get on with the extramarital affairs and sexual harrassment and sexual assaults. That's why they didn't remove him from office, and instead negotiated a censure, so they could put it on his political record forever.

For anyone not in the GOP who played along, there was always a pretense that this was necessary, but society didn't enforced it through the intervening period.

Nonetheless, illegal drug deals in order to arm terrorists one has an appearance of owing a favor for having manipulated their geopolitics in order to affect an American election isn't an impeachable offense. Lying about extramarital affairs is. Lying about national security in order to trigger a war isn't an impeachable offense. Impeachment arguments against Obama included a racist conspiracy theory, attending both science and law in his administration's regard for transgender, and incoherent wailing about Benghazi that never matched the facts. Toward that end, Minority Leader McCarthy's (R-CA23) remarks in the debate to transmit the Articles were a perfect example: As he denounced the House's efforts, his remark about impeaching Trump forever reminds of the Clinton censure, and his general denunciation of the House investigation sounded more like a description of the Issa/Gowdy investigations and McCarthy's own boast that the whole point was to harm political opponents. One Republican member of Congress even suggested Obama argued to be impeached simply because Republicans didn't like the president's political agenda. Senators Kyl (R-AZ) and Coburn (R-OK) suggested impeaching Obama about immigration policy, in 2012 and 2013 respectively, and the latter's plays into a stupid bit when Speaker Boehner demanded Congress have a role in executive matters regarding immigration, saw the REpublican bill fail because his own caucus turned on him, publicly told President Obama to use his executive power, and then sued to stop that executive action.

Compared to any of that, President Trump's defense argues that abuse of power is not itself an impeachable act:

The first Article fails on its face to state an impeachable offense. It alleges no crimes at all, let alone "high Crimes and Misdemeanors," as required by the Constitution. In fact, it alleges no violation of law whatsoever. House Democrats' "abuse of power" claim would do lasting damage to the separation of powers under the Constitution.

(Sekulow and Cipollone↱)

The next paragraph leads with the assertion, "The first Article also fails on the facts …", and the key word, there, is, "also". That is, the second paragraph argues that, "President Trump has not in any way 'abused the powers of the Presidency'". Given the evidence against Trump, we can easily see why the attorneys led with pretending the refusal to faithfully execute the laws in order to extort a bribe isn't an impeachable offense.

†​

The Waldman joke, though, that the Trump defense, "reads as though it was written by a ninth-grader who saw an episode of Law & Order and learned just enough legal terms to throw them around incorrectly", stands out for its own reasons.

One point is to remember that Jay Sekulow is an attorney who made his fame playing word games in advancement of Christian supremacism. So let us be clear about, say, the Gay Fray and other right-wing culture wars: They were always like that; there is always something fundamentally amiss about these arguments, and the desperation of just wanting to get their way has increased significantly over the years. But that manner of balbutive is part of Sekulow's notoriety.

Cipiollone, a longtime Republican who worked for Attorney General Barr in 1992-93, is not unfamiliar with such rhetoric, and recently sent a letter to Congress on behalf of President Trump in which he asserted the House has no authority to conduct an impeachment inquiry. As Benen notes of Cipollone:

One of the few things the legal defense team was willing to put in writing was a strange, eight-page screed in October—it was, oddly enough, longer than the document it submitted over the weekend—that even some conservatives described as "bananas" and a "barely-lawyered temper tantrum."

Yes really. In October, Benen↱ observed:

The full text of the eight-page letter is online here (pdf), and even by the standards of Trump World, this one's a doozy. I'm a little surprised a White House counsel agreed to put his name on it, since it's likely to do lasting harm to Cipollone's reputation as a legal professional.

Indeed, it's difficult to see the letter as even presenting a legal argument. In practice, it's as if the president threw a tantrum; the White House legal team jotted down some of his poorly articulated rage; and shameless Republican attorneys tried to put a legal-ish veneer on Trump's rant.

Gregg Nunziata, who served as legal counsel and a senior policy adviser to Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), described Cipollone's letter as "bananas" and a "barely-lawyered temper tantrum." Nunziata added that "no member of Congress," regardless of party or ideology, "should accept it" ....

.... Reactions from the legal community were brutal. George Conway wrote, "I cannot fathom how any self-respecting member of the bar could affix his name to this letter. It's pure hackery, and it disgraces the profession." Former acting U.S. Solicitor General Neal Katyal called the White House's letter "inane," adding, "You don't get to block impeachment just because you don't like it." Law professor Ryan Goodman, former special counsel at the Pentagon, described Cipollone's letter as "a professional embarrassment."

It is also worth pointing out the bit about a conference call with reporters, in which, "a senior administration official argued that before officials on Team Trump would agree to cooperate with the impeachment inquiry, the president and his aides would require a 'full halt' to the process." That is to say, "after Congress stops the impeachment inqui
If I had been sued as many times as our current President... For the reasons he has been... I would believe the gov doesn't work as it supposedly should.

And I have been strung up naked in a jail cell against my own will. After being struck in the head.
 
ok
question:
First, let us assume that the Bidens are innocent of any corruption in Ukraine.
then
If Trump requesting an investigation of the Bidens in Ukraine would give him an advantage in the coming election, does that not presuppose that the investigation would find something indicating corruption by Biden?
 
If Trump requesting an investigation of the Bidens in Ukraine would give him an advantage in the coming election, does that not presuppose that the investigation would find something indicating corruption by Biden?

No, it does not. For those paying attention, Trump didn't necessarily expect the investigation to find anything, which is why so much attention was given to the idea of announcing an investigation.

We actually saw that presentation, yesterday, including a Ukranian draft statement and State's suggested changes.

The idea that you're asking a question, today, that misses this point does not at all surprise me; it's a common rhetorical trope in conservative political argument that we've endured for years.

†​

Perhaps it works better to consider it this way: In asking Ukraine to "do us a favor, though", part of what Donald Trump wanted was that the president of an allied nation should betray himself to promote a debunked conspiracy theory to aid and comfort that nation's immediate and engaged enemy as a precondition to receiving Congressionally-approved security assistance in that very conflict.

The favor Donald Trump wanted including nothing less than the Ukranian President Zelensky to commit treason.

It's easy to think of him going after Hillary Clinton in the bit about the server, but the purpose of that was also to promote Russian prestige and pretense.
 
Yet the economy took off, with the longest period of economic growth in all of US history, record low unemployment, and historically low minority unemployment, just by Republicans taking over. You can spin things any way you like, but no one believes you when you ignore reality. Democrats made poor gains because Democrats have lousy economic polices.

The economic growth was higher in the 90's until it took a dive right before Obama was elected, then it took off again. So, under Clinton and Obama, both Democrats, is where you'll find economic growth. Sorry to burst your bubble.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188165/annual-gdp-growth-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

Here again, the unemployment rate was rising (under Republicans) right up until Obama was elected, and then it started falling. Again, sorry, bubble, burst.

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

Could go on from here bursting your bubble, but I think this is already a telling story regarding your claims.
 
If Trump requesting an investigation of the Bidens in Ukraine would give him an advantage in the coming election, does that not presuppose that the investigation would find something indicating corruption by Biden?
Nope. It presupposes that Trump wanted to win by any means possible, whether legal or not.
 
And, once again again, we have a presumption of corruption in the world's political elite?

Why is this considered the norm?
Opinion:
Trump was using the "where there is smoke there is fire" superstitions of his support base to further his political agenda.
He knows that all he has to do is generate the "smoke" and his supporters and all conspiracy theorist will imagine the fire.

It is a simple trick of a fraudster used to guile people into a belief system that is required to further a nefarious end.
By coercing the Ukrainian president in to announcing a corruption inquiry he would achieve his ambition to create that "smoke".

Notes: None of what I have posted above is to be considered as fact or a claim as it is merely a personal assessment based on observation.
For those who continuously seek to distort my posts, I repeat, none of the above is to be considered as fact or a claim and is merely a a personal assessment based on personal observation.
 
If I had been sued as many times as our current President... For the reasons he has been... I would believe the gov doesn't work as it supposedly should.
Justice is, actually, a function of our government. And given the massive sums Trump has paid to settle lawsuits - and to keep his illicit activities quiet - and to pay fines for judgments against him - there's no doubt that government is working as it should when it comes to enforcing our laws.
 
The economic growth was higher in the 90's until it took a dive right before Obama was elected, then it took off again. So, under Clinton and Obama, both Democrats, is where you'll find economic growth. Sorry to burst your bubble.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188165/annual-gdp-growth-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

Here again, the unemployment rate was rising (under Republicans) right up until Obama was elected, and then it started falling. Again, sorry, bubble, burst.

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

Could go on from here bursting your bubble, but I think this is already a telling story regarding your claims.
These 90's?
The U.S. is officially in its longest expansion, breaking the record of 120 months of economic growth from March 1991 to March 2001, according to the National Bureau of Economic Research.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/02/this-is-now-the-longest-us-economic-expansion-in-history.html
"Started falling" is not the lowest since 1969:
The unemployment rate fell to 3.6 percent, the Labor Department said Friday, the lowest since 1969.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...april-unemployment-fell-percent-lowest-since/

Seems it's your bubble. You have addressed neither, although I'm sure you think your arm-waving about short-term trends did.
 
These 90's?
The U.S. is officially in its longest expansion, breaking the record of 120 months of economic growth from March 1991 to March 2001, according to the National Bureau of Economic Research.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/02/this-is-now-the-longest-us-economic-expansion-in-history.html
"Started falling" is not the lowest since 1969:
The unemployment rate fell to 3.6 percent, the Labor Department said Friday, the lowest since 1969.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...april-unemployment-fell-percent-lowest-since/

Seems it's your bubble. You have addressed neither, although I'm sure you think your arm-waving about short-term trends did.

My sources are from THE official sources which you probably didn't even bother looking at, your sources are from the media. Nice try arm waving there, but no cigar.
 
My sources are from THE official sources which you probably didn't even bother looking at, your sources are from the media. Nice try arm waving there, but no cigar.
LOL! You still don't see how your response fails to address what I wrote. Hint, you tried to refute long-term claims with relatively short-term data. That's as irrelevant as trying to refute climate change with weather.
 
LOL! You still don't see how your response fails to address what I wrote. Hint, you tried to refute long-term claims with relatively short-term data. That's as irrelevant as trying to refute climate change with weather.

The data I provided refutes what you wrote. Hint, you tried to lie about Trump's accomplishments, but failed miserably when the data was put in front of you and are now trying to wriggle out of it, just like Trump tries to do. Doesn't work that way, sorry.
 
The data I provided refutes what you wrote. Hint, you tried to lie about Trump's accomplishments, but failed miserably when the data was put in front of you and are now trying to wriggle out of it, just like Trump tries to do. Doesn't work that way, sorry.
No, it sadly doesn't. You tried to refute "longer" with "higher", which obviously are not the same thing. So you completely failed to address that claim, and still don't seem to realize it.
And expanding the graph range of your own source verifies that unemployment is the lowest it's been since 1969. That's your own source verifying my claim.
 
Soooooooo...

In a nutshell -this by itself- could be the only info needed in deciding "Yeah" or "Nay" on impeachment and the only reason it's not around yet is because the dude wanted a better public spectacle for promoting his book?

"This is the reason John Bolton has offered to testify in the Senate. He's got a book coming out in March. He also does not want to be in a position of withholding this information until his book comes out ... Now, that's not an excuse, frankly, for his failure to testify in the house. He should have come to the house. He should not have threatened to sue us if we subpoenaed him."

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-impeachment-trial-01-27-20/index.html

:D:leaf:
 
No, it sadly doesn't. You tried to refute "longer" with "higher", which obviously are not the same thing. So you completely failed to address that claim, and still don't seem to realize it.

We can easily put up your claim which you conveniently forgot...

"Yet the economy took off, with the longest period of economic growth in all of US history, record low unemployment, and historically low minority unemployment, just by Republicans taking over."

You were responding to the era of Bush/Clinton/Obama, so I put up the data for that period of time which clearly showed the economic growth falling and unemployment rising, "just by Republicans taking over." So yes, the data does refute your claim.

And expanding the graph range of your own source verifies that unemployment is the lowest it's been since 1969. That's your own source verifying my claim.

Yes, as a result of Democrats in power, not Republicans. Sorry you feel the need to lie through your teeth and ignore the facts, but that's what Trump and his supporters do.
 
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