The Gospel of Self Mutilation and Castration

SetiAlpha6

SetiAlpha6

Come Let Us Reason Together
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The God of the Old Testament teaches us that self mutilation is wrong, in that, anyone who castrates himself will not be allowed into the congregation, at least, according to the Book of Deuteronomy.

Deuteronomy 23:1 (New American Standard Bible)
1"No one who is emasculated (castrated) or has his male organ cut off shall enter the assembly of the LORD

But then in the New Testament, according to both Matthew and Mark, Jesus clearly teaches and encourages salvation through self castration and self mutilation? What kind of an evil gospel is this?

Matthew 19:11-12 (New American Standard Bible)
11But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given.
12"For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."

Matthew 5 (New American Standard Bible)
27 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY';
28 but I (Jesus) say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29 "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
30 "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

Mark 9:43-48 (New American Standard Bible)
43 "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,
44 [where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.]
45"If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell,
46 [where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.]
47 "If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell,
48 where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Matthew 18:7-9 (New American Standard Bible)
7 "Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!
8 "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.
9 "If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

But then again, according to Paul, below, there is no value in the “severe treatment of the body” in the war against fleshly indulgence. So I guess Jesus was wrong then? No wait! Paul must be wrong? No wait! Both are right but in different ways! Ahhh... ...Self delusion at its finest!

Colossians 2:20-23 (New American Standard Bible)
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21"Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!"
22(which all refer to things destined to perish with use)--in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

Surely no one has ever really obeyed Jesus here and actually done this! Have they? Well unfortunately some actually have taken these “commandments and teachings of men” as the very “Word of God” and have actually gone through with this within the Christian faith.

In fact a cousin of my wife actually took these "words of Jesus" as the truth and tried to cut off one of his own hands to stop himself from sinning. Fortunately, his parents came home and called an ambulance in time to save him from bleeding to death. This is a true story! But this teaching of Jesus is false and evil!

Does anyone else know anything about the history of this evil practice in the Christian Church? How many others have actually been deceived by the Bible into doing this kind of thing?
 
Asceticism was all the rage in the Dark Ages and self-abuse remains practiced by a minority of Christians.
 
currently it appears that exploitation and greed are all the rage - ascetiscism, just like sense enjoyment, is only fruitful if performed in knowledge.
 
Preachers are openly saying God wants you to be rich, so I think I'd agree with you there.
 
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M*W: This is sick! Self-mutilation is a sickness. People who self-mutilate hate themselves. Self-mutilation can range from verbal abuse to using razors on their skin. Self-mutilation is found in people who pluck out their hair, cut themselves, and do other physical harm to their bodies. They have a death wish that is manifested in self-abuse of their bodies. There is still so much to learn about this. It's a form of self-destruction... hair by hair, cut by cut.

Why is it that someone detests themselves so adamantly that they would cut themselves to death, slowly, but surely? What causes the pain that they feel?

There is a psychological connection between pleasure and pain. What some feel as pleasure, others feel as pain. There is really not much difference between pleasure and pain. That's just human nature.
 
No, I actually agree with the above statements. This is no morbid depressed goth we are talking about, who dabbles in cutting themselves for attention, but people with determination. There is a similar story in Buddhism. It's a measure of how bad you want it. How determined are you to rise above your sins? To transcend those things holding you back? I think perhaps only the castration one is meant literally. I mean, if you are a rapist, it might not be a bad idea, just get some medical attention, you know?
 
It would appear that the Christian gospel then is completely powerless and unable to change a person’s mind, the cause of the problem, since one must physically cut off a hand or a foot or an eye or a male organ to stop sin. The claim of the Christian faith is that it really can change your heart and even your very desire to sin. That is partially what is meant by the term "born again". That claim is clearly false.
 
Twisting old testament around to fit bashing it

SetiAlpha6 said:
The God of the Old Testament teaches us that self mutilation is wrong, in that, anyone who castrates himself will not be allowed into the congregation, at least, according to the Book of Deuteronomy.

Deuteronomy 23:1 (New American Standard Bible)
1"No one who is emasculated (castrated) or has his male organ cut off shall enter the assembly of the LORD
Click to expand...
So? it is very much AGAINST mutilation! the complete opposoite, I don't get you.
 
Eunuchs

SetiAlpha6 said:
The God of the Old Testament teaches us that self mutilation is wrong, in that, anyone who castrates himself will not be allowed into the congregation, at least, according to the Book of Deuteronomy.


Matthew 19:11-12 (New American Standard Bible)
11But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given.
12"For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."[QOTE]

Self harm is is not being encouraged in the NT passage in Matthew.

The problem here is that the word being used is Strong's 2134 defined as follows:

2134. eunouchizo yoo-noo-khid'-zo from 2135; to castrate (figuratively, live unmarried):--make...eunuch.

Clearly here it is being used figuratively rather than literally. The translation in the Message version is much clearer:

11-12But Jesus said, "Not everyone is mature enough to live a married life. It requires a certain aptitude and grace. Marriage isn't for everyone. Some, from birth seemingly, never give marriage a thought. Others never get asked—or accepted. And some decide not to get married for kingdom reasons. But if you're capable of growing into the largeness of marriage, do it."

Likewise the quotes about 'plucking out eyes' etc. are hyperbole, a common style of scriptural writing. They are not meant to be taken literally.

There have been (and probably still are) those who self harm for some misplaced idea of spiritual improvement but that is to misunderstand NT scripture and, as you have pointed out, to ignore OT scripture on the subject.



Regards,


Gordon.
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Samd Ghost said:
So? it is very much AGAINST mutilation! the complete opposoite, I don't get you.
Click to expand...
The Bible teaches completely opposite points of view on many, many topics. This is only one of them. The contradictions are "literally" everywhere in the Bible and "figuratively", you can make up whatever you desire regardless of what the text clearly teaches. That is what ALL of the churches do to their own people. It is the art of deception, plain and simple.
 
Deuteronomy 25:11-13 (New American Standard Bible)
11 "If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals,
12 then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.

Here is a clear “literal” command to cut off a wife’s hand if she tries to help her husband in a fight. According to the Bible, a wife has no right to stop another man from severely beating or even killing her own husband in this manner. I’m sure she had sinful, lustful, carnal, sexual desires for the other man in her mind the whole time and just really wanted to touch his glistening private parts as they bounced in the sun, don’t you think? Or was she merely trying to love, honor, and protect her own husband in self defense? Hmmm? Can’t have that either… …off with her hand!

How many well-meaning women do you suppose had their hands cut off under this “loving” law?

Notice the clear command of God here that “you shall not show pity.” This is exactly what the God of the Bible burns into the hearts of the children of Israel over and over and over again. Thou shalt not show pity! That must be the eleventh or twelfth commandment. It is almost like He wants to use the Law to strip love, pity, and mercy right out of them. Guess what? It worked!

Now, of course, the Bible also clearly teaches exactly the opposite of all of this as well. He says, nervously bracing for incoming verses…

The Bible says in other places that you are not supposed to judge the actions of others (so much for all those laws) and you are to show mercy to all.

So take your pick! Show mercy or do not show mercy. Both are commanded and demanded of God. But any way you choose to “slice” it, the God of the Bible will most likely condemn you.

Kinda sucks, doesn’t it?
 
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The message is not to pull out your eye but not to sin, or that your better off pulling out your eye then doing that, it is not good to pull out your eye!
 
The Bible plainly teaches:

"If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out"
"If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off"
"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off"
"If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off"
"If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out"

This is plain and simple language. And this teaching and way of thinking is rooted in the Old Testament in Deuteronomy 25:11-13 where it is commanded!

Christians are called to suffer for Christ. I will look up the reverences for you if you want me to. But most certainly you already know this!

There have historically been some, within the church, who have actually done this to stop sinning. They are usually regarded as more righteous than those who cannot bring themselves to do this, not less so. This perhaps shows just how thoroughly people can be deceived into thinking that the amazing body God gave them is their own worst enemy. They are taught that “the flesh” or their own body is evil intrinsically, are they not?

Regards

(P.S. Please DO NOT do this yourself)
 
"If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out"
"If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off"
"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off"
"If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off"
"If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out"

I would not take this literally . It may be a metaphor like : If something is not working fix it or don't do it.

If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals,
12 then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.

As a man would you rather lose a hand or your genitals, Just imagine trying to fight with a women pulling on your stuff:D I would not lose to a man because he has a women helping him by seizing my genitals, the first thing to imagine is struggling with someone and winning then his wife comes from behind or whatever and seizes your genitals pulling a twisting, what do you do now that he is gaining control and you cant think of anything but your stuff.
 
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Kendall said:
"If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out"
"If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off"
"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off"
"If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off"
"If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out"

I would not take this literally . It may be a metaphor like : If something is not working fix it or don't do it.
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Then I will not take the "hell" that is described in the same passage literally either, my friend.

Kendall said:
"If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals,
12 then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.

As a man would you rather lose a hand or your genitals, Just imagine trying to fight with a women pulling on your stuff:D I would not lose to a man because he has a women helping him by seizing my genitals, the first thing to imagine is struggling with someone and winning then his wife comes from behind or whatever and seizes your genitals pulling a twisting, what do you do now that he is gaining control and you cant think of anything but your stuff.
Click to expand...

So the solution here is to get out your knife and cut off her hand? I strongly disagree with this! How do two wrongs make a right?

According to the text she is trying "to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him." That is her motivation. There is nothing wrong with protecting your husband from possibly being killed.

Self defense classes today for women rightly teach something very similar to this.

In my opinion, what was actually made illegal by the Bible, was the mere possibility that any woman might have even the smallest power, edge, advantage, or authority over any man, regardless of the circumstances, and even when the woman's actions are warranted. I submit that such an idea should be disgusting to any real man.

Regards
 
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How do you know that the womens husband is not the one trying to kill the other man?
 
Kendall said:
How do you know that the womens husband is not the one trying to kill the other man?
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Because of these two words, "to deliver".

She is not grabbing the other guy so her husband can kill him. She is trying "to deliver" or rescue her own husband from being killed or injured. What is wrong with that?
 
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