The GOP Convention - NYC 2004

Well it has to be signed by the President, that’s an anti-climax. Also since 2000 when the GOP only strengthened their control over the houses, the budget deficit is in excess of $450 billion, the GOP has basically squandered $10 trillion.

Which just goes to show that the surplusses of the 1990s had everything to do with the economy and nothing to do with the Clinton administration.


I don’t see your point, what did you mean by Socialism? Because to my knowledge the Democrats started with Keynesianism economics under FDR and wasn’t given up until Reagan, Nixon screwed it up pretty badly along with supply problems. What do you consider “socialism”…

Oh I think I see you now. Okay, to answer your question for our purposes here: Government control over the economy. Was your point that Keynsian economics was a Democratic thing? If so I agree, and it seems to fit my point that this is something the Republicans were protecting us from. Of course, later on the Republicans seemed to embrace Keynsian policies with Volkr and Greenspan, but surely you'd have to agree that what's done today is a vastly different approach from what Keynes had in mind.

IMO that byplay, that facing off between the two sides, as perhaps best exemplified by Greenspans earlier rejection of Keynsian economics and vehement argument against it, only to accept and in fact ultimately *run the Fed*, is a perfect example of how the middle ground, how open-mindedness, leads to the best long-term results.

But then I guess that's something we generally agree on. (shrug)


No you didn’t follow the criteria, I only mentioned presidents you went on the tangents. That’s not reasonable or fair.

Actually your original assertion along these lines was this:

The Democrats have their problems no doubt, but their problems are miniscule compared to the problems that will be present with a second Bush administration. It’s a level of severity that transcends subjectivism.

You want to change the questions as you go along, fine, but you'll be talking to thin air. I'm not here to play smug little superiority games like declaring victory or making sure you always get the last word. Just not my thing, sorry.
 
Which just goes to show that the surplusses of the 1990s had everything to do with the economy and nothing to do with the Clinton administration.

Actually no, the economy surely did play a large role but the most important aspect was the peace dividend which cut spending on the over bloated military-industrial complex in the US. Secondly was the raise in taxes which had little overall impact on the US economy it actually made the US economy get better fundamentals. Today should a depression happen the US government would be fiscally unable to do anything about it.

Was your point that Keynsian economics was a Democratic thing? If so I agree, and it seems to fit my point that this is something the Republicans were protecting us from.

My point is that Keynsian economics was initiated by the democrats (thank god) during the great depression, and every president from FDR to Reagan used the Keynes way of economics. The GOP tolerated higher unemployment and lower inflation, the democrats the opposite. But both prescribed very strongly to Keynesianism. Along the Phillips curve, I believe it was called.

surely you'd have to agree that what's done today is a vastly different approach from what Keynes had in mind.

That was Reagan’s doing, the destruction of the Keynesian and Fordist economy, putting capital over labor. We now live in an era of “neo-liberalism”, which has its major downsides for those of us who aren’t rich.

leads to the best long-term results.

We haven’t seen the long term results of neo-liberalism yet, it took 30 years to realize the shortcomings of Keynes economics.

You want to change the questions as you go along, fine, but you'll be talking to thin air. I'm not here to play smug little superiority games like declaring victory or making sure you always get the last word. Just not my thing, sorry.

How did I justify my rhetoric’s ask yourself that question and come back to me.
 
Actually no, the economy surely did play a large role but the most important aspect was the peace dividend which cut spending on the over bloated military-industrial complex in the US.

(This sounds familiar, did we talk about this before?) Sure, military cuts were likely a factor as well. But that's also a factor that's heavily dependent on congressional cooperation. Ditto the tax hike, perhaps that was a factor as well. But I think the dot-com boom alone eclipses all of that.


it took 30 years to realize the shortcomings of Keynes economics

Well that was more or less my point. Had we not had a dampening influence from opposition politics in place, things might have gotten out of hand, with the result being European-style semi-socialism with 70%+ taxation and the government determining absolutely everything.

I'm just speaking in broad strokes here, of course. Obviously there were other influences that prevented that.
 
But I think the dot-com boom alone eclipses all of that.

Even with the dot.com bubble collapse the US shouldn’t have gone into such a deep deficit. Granted now that the US is at war I can understand why she would be in a deficit, but not at these levels. The US would be out of deficit by 2009 if the taxes are rescinded, and spending is cut. But real estimates say that the US won’t be out of deficit by 2040, and by that time America won’t be the world power.

Well that was more or less my point. Had we not had a dampening influence from opposition politics in place, things might have gotten out of hand, with the result being European-style semi-socialism with 70%+ taxation and the government determining absolutely everything.


Very real possibility, that was one of Reagan’s pluses…
 
Even with the dot.com bubble collapse the US shouldn’t have gone into such a deep deficit. Granted now that the US is at war I can understand why she would be in a deficit, but not at these levels.

Emergency spending post-9/11 was also a factor. $20 billion on this bailout and $20 billion on that bailout and pretty soon you're talking about some real money. There were two of those for the airlines, and another bailout for laid-off 9/11 workers in the same ballpark as I recall. It's not like we've had a huge ramp-up in defense spending here. If anything the military's been cut back even further (more program cancellations), aside from war spending.


The US would be out of deficit by 2009 if the taxes are rescinded, and spending is cut. But real estimates say that the US won’t be out of deficit by 2040, and by that time America won’t be the world power.

True, but IMO it's more spending-cut than tax-rescind. Personally I'd be willing to give up the tax cut *if* spending were brought in line. But that ain't gonna happen, so give me my money back AND live within your means, you government hogs! (Remember, your man Kerry plans to *cut* taxes while balancing the budget.)
 
Emergency spending post-9/11 was also a factor. $20 billion on this bailout and $20 billion on that bailout and pretty soon you're talking about some real money.

Not even close enough to get rid of the Surplus, the Clinton surplus was in excess of $200 billion so he could bail out ten times then he would get rid of that surplus. If as you say the war was a big drag on the budget, why wouldn’t he rescind the tax cut? It makes no sense, when you are at war and when you are raising spending to accommodate that war, why cut taxes? It’s complete nonsense, and the only victims in the end will be you the average American.

It's not like we've had a huge ramp-up in defense spending here. If anything the military's been cut back even further (more program cancellations), aside from war spending.

There are two possibilities here, either you are being a spin master, or you are completely ignorant? Choose…because the US military budget has exploded from $276.7 billion (FY99 est.), to $466.0 billion (FY04) today, that’s and increase of 59.3% over the last 5 years, the economist predicts that the US military budget will reach $1 trillion by the end of this decade. How are you going to pay for that?

True, but IMO it's more spending-cut than tax-rescind.

The problem is that no one is wiling to cut, because everything apart from the military is already stretched. There really is only one option, tax hikes.

But that ain't gonna happen, so give me my money back AND live within your means, you government hogs!

The government is doing what the American electorate wants, to spend like mad and to cut taxes at the same time.

Remember, your man Kerry plans to *cut* taxes while balancing the budget.

As does Bush…at least Kerry is wiling to raise taxes on 2% of the population (which you aren’t part of) to get some money into the government coffers. China and Japan can only prop up the US economy so much.
 
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If as you say the war was a big drag on the budget, why wouldn’t he rescind the tax cut? It makes no sense, when you are at war and when you are raising spending to accommodate that war, why cut taxes? It’s complete nonsense, and the only victims in the end will be you the average American.

We can haggle on the details, but I think that's a valid position and I can't fault it.


There are two possibilities here, either you are being a spin master, or you are completely ignorant?

I really wish you wouldn't say things like that. I don't understand why you find that sort of insult necessary. We're just talking here.


the US military budget has exploded from $276.7 billion (FY99 est.), to $466.0 billion (FY04) today, that’s and increase of 59.3% over the last 5 years, the economist predicts that the US military budget will reach $1 trillion by the end of this decade. How are you going to pay for that?

Right. I said aside from war spending. Programs like Crusader still got cut (thank god, actually; what a stupid project that was), and a lot of worthy projects are seriously underfunded (like the F-22 Raptor). Listen, we're on the same page here -- I want to spend money on defense, but not on the war in Iraq. We're going to spend $200+ billion in the most wasteful method imaginable, when we just got through deciding not to buy the number of Raptors we're really going to need at something like half that amount. It's ridiculous. Even worse, that centrists.org article I posted the other day suggests that that $200 billion figure is a gross underestimate.

But here's the thing: We're already in deficit *before* that money is spent. Clinton's last budget was for just over $301 billion for defense. Bush raised that to $329 for 2002 and just shy of $400 for 2003. Agreed? (He wants a little more for 2005, but not the 466 you quoted, I believe that's for 2007, but that's not important at the moment; we're looking at how we got to this point.)

And here's the deficit: From $159 billion for 2002, to close to $400 billion by the end of 2004. Sound about right?

So the question would be: How does a defense spending increase of roughly $100 billion equate to a deficit increase of $240 billion over the same period? Answer: It doesn't. In fact it doesn't even account for *half* of the deficit.

Increases have been across the board, not just in defense. Social security up 4%. Medicare up 2.7%. Medicaid up a whopping 9.3%. Other non-defense programs up 4.7%.

(Source: http://www.centrists.org/pages/2004/02/15_guest_budget.html)
 
I really wish you wouldn't say things like that. I don't understand why you find that sort of insult necessary. We're just talking here.

Don’t get too emotional its just a statement of fact, either you are purposely lying, or you don’t know what you are talking about…

Right. I said aside from war spending.

That is the actual military budget; I don’t care about the programs because they aren’t a indicator of anything. The actual military budget has exploded; it’s that simple the budget doesn’t care about the F-22 it cares about total costs.

Listen, we're on the same page here -- I want to spend money on defense, but not on the war in Iraq.

Well I don’t think you have much of a right to complain about the defense expenditures that are being spent in Iraq. You supported the war, and as a result you only have yourself to blame for what is happening in Iraq. I would imagine that you must believe that Iraq is based on defense of America (lol)…so to you at least the money is being well spent.

when we just got through deciding not to buy the number of Raptors we're really going to need at something like half that amount. It's ridiculous.

The F-22 is a weapon for a different era; it should be cancelled altogether…

But here's the thing: We're already in deficit *before* that money is spent. Clinton's last budget was for just over $301 billion for defense. Bush raised that to $329 for 2002 and just shy of $400 for 2003. Agreed?

I don’t have the figures in front of me at this moment, so I need substantiation for those assertions.

(He wants a little more for 2005, but not the 466 you quoted, I believe that's for 2007, but that's not important at the moment; we're looking at how we got to this point.)

The actual military budget independent of war expenditures is $379 billion, but you are at war thus it is $466 billion this year spent on the military:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm

You cannot separate these expenditures they are one in the same, the defense department is used for war, and to separate the two is politics.

So the question would be: How does a defense spending increase of roughly $100 billion equate to a deficit increase of $240 billion over the same period? Answer: It doesn't. In fact it doesn't even account for *half* of the deficit.

I didn’t say it did, I know that the budget increase is not only due to military expenditure:

IN HIS first three years as president, George Bush has cut taxes three times and yet orchestrated a sharp rise in public spending—not just, or indeed mainly, on foreign wars and “homeland security”, but also on domestic matters. For instance, spending on education has jumped by three-fifths since 2000, and spending on transport has risen by nearly half. Lower taxes, higher spending: the outcome is that the federal government, despite a steep fall in the interest it pays on its debt, has swung sharply into deficit—$450 billion this fiscal year, by most accounts.
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What risks? After all, a year or two of sharply higher government spending in the early part of Mr Bush's presidency—when economic growth slowed sharply, a stockmarket bubble burst, and America faced unprecedented and confidence-sapping security threats—may well have been for the good. Yet, even as evidence grows that there is a reasonable chance of economic recovery, the long-term prospects for the budget look as bleak as ever.
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But by 2015 surplus will swing to deficit, and by 2030, on current policy, the cost of Social Security will have risen from 4.2% of GDP to 5.9%.
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The CBO calculates that, if future excess-cost growth of both Medicare and Medicaid was only 2.5%, then federal spending on these programmes would jump from 3.9% of GDP in 2003 to 21% in 2050
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Unless entitlement programmes are cut too, or taxes raised to unprecedented levels, or both, the country is on a financially unsustainable path over the next half-century. “An ever-growing burden of federal debt held by the public”, the CBO concludes, “would have a corrosive and potentially contractionary effect on the economy.”
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A report in the New York Times suggests that the administration will claim to be able to halve the deficit over five years by relying on future economic growth and on cruel cuts in such programmes as housing for the poor and job-training for the unemployed. Certainly, these vulnerable groups do not tend to vote Republican. Also certainly, such cuts will barely dent the budget deficit.
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Given such resistance, it is more likely that higher taxes will play the largest part in plugging the deficit. The question, then, is whether the process of plugging begins sooner or later. Either way, Americans will soon have to accept that federal spending is rising to a permanently higher level, one closer to European levels of government spending. Perhaps they can soften the shock by taking their holidays in Paris.
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The Economist print edition Jan 8th 2004

I think the article made it quite clear, America’s current path is unsustainable and a raise in taxes is inevitable. What I don’t understand from people like you who like their taxes low is that you don’t think of the consequences of your actions. The title of the article was Can’t last and the article only supported my claim that the US economy needs to get up into shape and deal with the deficit, and keeping your tax cuts isn’t going to do that. For a fiscal conservative like I am, I believe that the government should get the budget back in balance but that can’t be done simply by cutting some programs, it has to be done with tax hikes and not some voodoo economics here hoping and praying for massive economic growth to make up the tax burden, with recent economic news that isn’t happening. Inflation is on the raise in the US, and the situation in this decade will be one of potential stagflation all over again. http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=654688#post654688

I wouldn’t play games…

Increases have been across the board, not just in defense. Social security up 4%. Medicare up 2.7%. Medicaid up a whopping 9.3%. Other non-defense programs up 4.7%.

And only going to get higher due to an aging population, and slowing economic growth, globalization ,and a less competitive American economy.
 
(shrug) I guess we've pretty much run the gamut of this discussion then. Here are the references you were asking for.

But here's the thing: We're already in deficit *before* that money is spent. Clinton's last budget was for just over $301 billion for defense. Bush raised that to $329 for 2002 and just shy of $400 for 2003. Agreed?

I don’t have the figures in front of me at this moment, so I need substantiation for those assertions.

2001 (Clinton) Defense Budget @ $305.4 billion:
http://www.csbaonline.org/4Publicat...s_of_the_FY/R.20000300.Analysis_of_the_FY.htm

2002 Defense Budget @ $329 billion:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa062601b.htm

2003 Defense Budget @ $396.1 billion:
http://www.csbaonline.org/4Publicat...fense_Budge/U.20020204.2003_Defense_Budge.htm

2004 Defense Budget @ $399.1 billion:
http://www.cdi.org/budget/2004/world-military-spending.cfm

2005 Defense Budget @ $417.5 billion:
http://www.fox23news.com/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=9AEA6A24-C8F3-4BAF-84B2-22C47FBB767E
 
Diversity a Concern at 2004 GOP Convention
(1) Pitch to the swing leaves some evangelicals feeling rebuffed (AP/Picayune Item)
(2) Recent additions to convention speakers in response to criticism (a - Scripps Howard/Seattle P-I, b - RNC)
(3) Reflections on "Unity" (a - Boston Globe, b - Knight Ridder/FortWayne)

Despite the absence of popular Republican and Secretary of State Colin Powell, the GOP hopes to broaden its appeal among ethnic minorities and ideological identities traditionally wary of the Party.

Several prominent evangelical Christians have not been invited to participate in or attend the Republican National Convention. The Reverend Franklin Graham, who delivered the invocation at President Bush's inauguration, has not received a request to attend. Jerry Falwell, who offered a prayer in 2000 at the GOP convention, has not been asked to contribute this year. Falwell plans to attend quietly, and says nobody has asked him to keep a low profile, either. Pat Robertson, a former Republican presidential contender and founder of the Christian Coalition, believes the lack of invitations is an attempt to reduce the evangelical voice:

"In the last convention, the thought was to keep all the conservatives out of sight," said Robertson, who has attended every Republican convention since 1988, but said he won't go this year. "The general thrust will be to entice the so-called independent moderates and I am not sure that there would be much reason for a conservative to be there." (1)

Ralph Reed, former executive director of the Christian Coalition (1989-97) and present chair of the Georgia Republican Party, denies such a policy on the part of the GOP, and said conservative Christians will have a role at the convention.: "There is a specific program under way to invite social conservatives and religious leaders of a very broad or diverse representations and that is even under way as we speak."

As this controversy sees the light of day, one analysis points to recently-added speakers as a response to criticism:

Social conservatives were not thrilled with the initial list of speakers released by the Republican National Committee, noting that the likes of Arizona Sen. John McCain, former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger hailed from the party's moderate wing.

Paul Weyrich, chairman of the Free Congress Research and Education Foundation, told newsletter subscribers: "If the president is embarrassed to be seen with conservatives at the convention, maybe conservatives will be embarrassed to be seen with the president on Election Day."

But organizers recently added some conservative voices to the lineup, including Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum, who led the fight for a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage, Kansas Sen. Sam Brownback and House Speaker Dennis Hastert of Illinois.
(2a)

Editorial Note: Strangely, the above citation, while it comes from an article dated today (August 12, 2004) refers to additional speakers announced on July 20, 2004; also dated today is a release from the Republican National Convention (see 2b) for the latest additions.

In addition to whether or not the convention is alienating the evangelical portion of its base is the ever-present discussion of ethnic identity issues. Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby points critically to the recent "Unity: Journalists of Color" convention, and accuses both Senator Kerry and President Bush of pandering to the audience:

It would be nice to report that Bush and Kerry used their time at the Unity podium to condemn the organization's obsession with skin color, and to remind the journalists in the room that true diversity, the only diversity worth fighting for, is intellectual diversity: the diversity of minds.

But there was no "Sister Souljah moment" last week. Instead, Bush and Kerry pandered shamelessly, telling Unity's racialists exactly what they wanted to hear.

"I will do my part to bring more diversity into the media," Kerry assured them. "As president, I will expand opportunities for people of color in the media by appointing FCC commissioners committed to enforcing equal employment and ensuring that small minority-owned broadcasters are not consolidated into extinction."

Bush spoke the next day. "You believe that there ought to be diversity in the newsroom," he said. "I understand that. You believe that there ought to be diversity on the editorial pages of America. I agree. You believe that there ought to be diversity behind that managing editor's desk. I agree with that too."

Neither candidate rose to the occasion.
(3a)

Meanwhile, Lewis Diuguid sounded off on the same convention, pointing to the differences in how the candidates played:

Sen. John Kerry, the Democratic nominee for president, had done his homework, and it was reflected in the enthusiastic audience response Thursday from more than 5,000 people. Before delivering his address Friday, President Bush should have talked with Secretary of State Colin Powell, whose speech Thursday on foreign policy and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq rang hollow to this tough, questioning audience.

Kerry had a prepared text; Bush didn't, relying on jokes, banter, flat applause lines and bluster. Bush must have confused the minority journalists for what normally is a handpicked crowd of his "true believers" or his often compliant press corps.

He underestimated this group, and it showed in how ill-prepared he was and the merely polite response he got. Bush should have sharpened his skills by speaking to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. But he snubbed the NAACP, becoming the first president to do so since Herbert Hoover.
(3b)

Comment:

I picked up the bit about evangelicals scrolling by in a ticker headline; it would be unfortunate if this issue somehow comes to overshadow more important concerns about diversity. The GOP is viewed as traditionally aloof from minorities and their needs, though the party is celebrating its most diverse convention ever, as delegations report their minority portions to prove the point.

While it may not be immediately clear what Powell has to do with evangelical Christians in terms of diversity, his potential benefits to ethnic minority appeal should be apparent. In addition to Maryland Lt. Gov. Michael Steele and Secretary of Education Rod Paige, the convention is calling on Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao to provide a bridge to Asian-American and also female voters. Additionally, the convention hopes to draw the attention of female voters with Reps. Heather Wilson (R-NM) and Anne Northup (R-KY).

We should not pretend, however, that the appeal of such speakers is limited to their ethnicity or gender. And this is where the loss of Powell begins to have impact. Where Chao can appeal to Asian Americans and Paige, like Steele, can appeal to the African-American voters, Powell possesses a dimension that both of them lack.

Though none can be reduced merely to their ethnicity to explain their presence at the GOP convention, Powell can also appeal to ideologies traditionally off the Republican spectrum. What Powell would bring is exactly what prominent faces of evangelical Christianity could chase away. Powell's comparative political moderation would serve the party well; neither Steele nor Chao are particularly well-known, and Paige's comments about the National Education Association might quell enthusiasm among a portion of potential swing voters.

Recent reports bubbling across the wire also whisper about GOP difficulties connecting with the youth vote--yet another challenge of diversity, but we can look at those later. (This post was written in two separate sittings, and will consequently miss intervening headlines.)

My version of conventional wisdom recommends that the GOP duck away from pushing the ethnic diversity of the convention itself and reaching toward the ideological diversity they wish to attract. Certes, the evangelical Christian right is a vital part of the GOP electoral base, and while the party won't have Powell, they're certainly moving to contain the voices that are viewed as poorly representative of that evangelical base. Bush, undoubtedly, would like to keep at least the "crusade" and "God is on our side" remarks in the past, and surely would like to duck the bit about God ordering the invasion of Iraq. With good fortune for the party, the evangelical wing won't push representation issues, else those haunting sound-bites might well up to perch beside the current effort to undermine the U.S. Constitution for religious tradition

The big challenge is to not push the superficial identity politics of ethnicity, but rather to tap an image of ideological diversity and flexibility. A tall order for the GOP, in my opinion, but one well within the reach of Karl Rove and the rest of the Bush crew.
____________________


(1) Zoll, Rachel. "Top evangelical Christians awaiting invitation to Republican Convention." Picayune-Item (AP), August 12, 2004. See http://www.picayuneitem.com/articles/2004/08/12/news/17gop.txt
(2a) Straub, Bill. "GOP convention adds speakers." Seattle Post-Intelligencer (Scripps), August 12, 2004. See http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/185941_gop12.html
(2b) Republican National Convention. "Additional Program Speakers Announced for the 2004 Republican National Convention." August 12, 2004. See http://gopconvention.com/contents/newsroom/releases/081204_2.shtml
(3a) Jacoby, Jeff. "When diversity is only skin-deep." Boston Globe, August 12, 2004. See http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ed.../2004/08/12/when_diversity_is_only_skin_deep/
(3b) Diuguid, Lewis W. "Journalists response to Bush, Kerry reflected their preparedness." FortWayne.com (KRT), August 12, 2004. See http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/news/editorial/9381000.htm
 
Part of this is just the GOP trying to do the same thing the Dems did at the DNC; appeal to the middle. But I think there's a valid argument to be made that there's more dissention in Republican ranks than is typical.

There's an interesting article to that effect at this blog site:
http://www.themoderaterepublican.us/

But you have to scroll about halfway down the page to spot it. It's the 8/15 entry, titled "GOP Smackdown in New York". He has some interesting points, including:

There seems to be more and more signs of a fight taking place in the GOP between social moderates and social conservatives. Case in point: according to the Los Angeles Times socially moderate groups like Log Cabin Republicans, Republican Youth Majority and Republicans for Choice are working together to challenge the party platform on gay marriage and abortion rights. The three groups are hosting a press conference this week to outline their strategy for unity plank that would say that Republicans of good faith can disagree on "family issues."
 
(Insert Title Here)

Source: Washington Post
Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32788-2004Aug25.html
Title: "GOP Adds Anti-Gay Marriage Plank to Platform"
Date: August 25, 2004

Republican activists sharpened their party's opposition to gay marriage Wednesday only hours after Vice President Cheney defended such unions. The action was among several steps that conservatives took to firmly place their stamp on the GOP platform ahead of next week's convention, where the long list of moderate speakers has irked some on the party's right.

At the outset of the two-day platform hearings, Republican delegates reaffirmed long-standing planks that have stalled in Congress, such as allowing prayer in public schools and amending the Constitution to ban abortion. But they added a second proposed constitutional amendment -- to bar same-sex marriage -- which President Bush embraced this year. At the urging of conservative groups such as the Family Research Council, the platform subcommittee on family issues went further in tone and detail than did the original draft, assembled by GOP staffers.


Source: Washington Post

Again the spectre of diversity haunts the GOP only days in advance of its New York City convention.

It starts with Vice-President Cheney at an Iowa campaign stop. Asked about same-sex unions, Cheney invoked his own daughter in his response:

"Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue our family is very familiar with," Cheney told an audience that included his daughter. "With the respect to the question of relationships, my general view is freedom means freedom for everyone .... People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to.

"The question that comes up with the issue of marriage is what kind of official sanction or approval is going to be granted by government? Historically, that's been a relationship that has been handled by the states. The states have made that fundamental decision of what constitutes a marriage."


Source: Associated Press

Cheney went so far as to distance himself from President Bush's position in support of a constitutional amendment outlawing same-sex marriage:

"I think his perception was that the courts, in effect, were beginning to change, without allowing the people to be involved . . . .The courts were making the judgment for the entire country.

"At this point, say, my own preference is as I've stated, but the president makes policy for the administration. He's made it clear that he does, in fact, support a constitutional amendment on this issue."


Source: Associated Press

The GOP's social conservatives, already feeling slighted by the convention's slate largely composed of moderate Republican speakers, lashed back. Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, said:

"I find it hard to believe the vice president would stray from the administration's position on defense policy or tax policy. For many pro-family voters, protecting traditional marriage ranks ahead of the economy and job creation as a campaign issue.

Source: Associated Press

Meanwhile, in preparation for the convention, GOP social conservatives have mustered the support to add to the party platform a plank against same-sex marriage:

Unless rewritten by the full 110-member platform committee tonight or Thursday, the marriage section will condemn "a few judges and local authorities" who presume to change "the most fundamental institution of civilization." It will say same-sex couples should not receive legal benefits set aside for married couples, and it calls on the Senate to join the House in voting to strip federal courts of the authority to overturn state laws banning gay marriage.

Source: Washington Post

Comment:

To put it abstractly, diversity is a thematic problem with the GOP because diversity is bad for conservatism. The conservative politic aims for simplicity, as major portions of its voter-base (e.g. social conservatives) operate from a well of myth and superstition. The press seems to be treating the Vice President more kindly than they did Newt Gingrich in the 1990s, but the sense of intolerance ascribed to the GOP by many of its critics shows through.

The sound bite is to point to the President's position, wonder whether he was somehow unaware of the status of his VP's daughter, and say, "Well, that's what family is worth to the GOP."

The situation seems to highlight one of the most politically-damaging faces of the GOP:

Conservative groups, already working closely with platform delegates here, pounced on Cheney's comments. Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, told reporters that the vice president's remark "makes it seem the administration is split on the issue" of banning same-sex marriages. Gary L. Bauer, president of the group American Values, said in an interview that Cheney's statement "runs the risk of demoralizing the very people the president and vice president desperately need [in order] to be reelected." Perkins and Bauer hailed the platform language on gay marriage, which they said their groups had helped write.

Some moderate Republicans were fuming, however, saying the party was turning its back on potential swing voters from the political center. Christopher Barron, spokesman for the gay and lesbian group Log Cabin Republicans, called the subcommittee's action "mean-spirited" and "a slap in the face to fair-minded Republicans."


Source: Washington Post

Let's face it: as a numbers game, who will the GOP side with? The several-thousand members of the Log Cabin Republicans, who are considered "crossovers", or the several millions among the party's social-conservative movement, much of which qualifies as the core voter-base for the GOP's presidential runs?

Both Perkins of Family Research Council, and Bauer, a former GOP presidential candidate currently with the group American Values, are willing to at least make ridiculous waves. Perkins relies on voters who would put same-sex marriage ahead of economic and security concerns as an electoral priority. Bauer warns that Cheney may "demoralize the very people the president and vice president desperately need to be reelected".

Now, let's just take a minute here: Are these guys joking?

One suggests that same-sex unions is a more important issue than whether Al Qaeda blows up part of another city? Really? And the other ... well, Mr. Bauer, let's be realistic--Where are the GOP's social conservatives going to go that they might expect to have so strong a political voice?

Perkins and Bauer face the same dilemma faced by their contemporaries on the left edge of the mainstream. They have no place to go. Kerry? Most certainly not. Is there a candidate right of Bush on social issues that stands a snowball's chance in Hell, even with the support of what would be the GOP's former evangelical base?

Of course not. If there's anything they ought to realize, it's that Bush is a very single-minded man in certain things. God told him to invade Iraq, for instance. No matter how poorly Bush prepared for war, no matter how much of the grand American tradition all presidents call on in times of trial Bush has spat upon, no matter how the Iraqi Bush Adventure actually turns out, Bush will never decide that he made the wrong decision.

Similarly, Bush has been largely unwavering on social issues. His economic heresy has certainly cost him some points among supporters, but the only votes he's losing weren't necessarily his in the first place. Again, where will the GOP's economic faithful go? Bauer and Perkins are merely blustering needlessly: Bush has pandered to them throughout his first term, and the needs of the convention--broad appeal to capture vital swing votes--suggest that social conservatives may wish to consider being satisfied with what they have so far, and with what the future seems secure in bringing. If the focus of the convention is elsewhere, it is only to preserve a presidency that includes the hard line Bush has established on social and cultural considerations.

The GOP has a curious habit of standing off against the Constitution in the strangest ways; free speech for corporations but not individuals, individual determination for all but women, and now another round with the Fourteenth Amendment as well as the securely-established power of the courts to hold government accountable to the Constitution.

While quibbling with the Vice President over the degree of determination invested in states' rights is best left in this instance for other topics, it is worth noting that in trying to maintain an alliance on the issue with his boss, Cheney has suggested that the states have the power to render the U.S. Constitution worthless.

None of this bodes well for the GOP, whose success in general depends on attracting independent voters and crossover Democrats. This year's convention must necessarily appeal to a broader audience than the traditional mainstays of the Republican party. Surely the folks at FRC and AV understand what's at stake, and we can be certain they understand what history suggests of the future. They might serve their own cause better by serving the party, and accepting the compromise brought by the necessity of preserving a controversial and flagging presidency.
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• Babington, Charles. "GOP Adds Anti-Gay Marriage Plank to Platform." Washington Post, August 25, 2004. See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32788-2004Aug25.html

See Also -

• Dvorak, Todd. "Cheney's gay marriage comments criticized." Associated Press/Seattle Post-Intelligencer, August 25, 2004. See http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apelection_story.asp?category=1131&slug=Cheney Gays
 
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Bush won't win his bid for re-election. Why? The reason is simple. The american people are tired of having a STUPID president with a STUPID administration (Cheney, Rice & Powell), making STUPID decisions (example; going to war in IRAQ over WMD?)............So Bush won't win because the american people aren't that STUPID to re-elect Bush for a second time.

Yob Atta
 
check the polls, have the of ~half american people are "stupid" enough to re-elect him.
 
I'm impressed. I'll say that much of the convention so far. It's hard to make any serious analysis of the speakers; parsing Schwarzeneggar's speech, for instance, is an exercise in hilarity. Giuliani was quite effective I admit. I suppose I should just get used to the mileage the GOP can get out of cotton candy. If only they could do the same with our energy concerns.
 
If Bush wins his bid for re-election then the american people want more of the same for the next four years.........Bush, if re-elected will not hesistate to find a reason to attack Iran. He wants to and he'll do it if he thinks he can get away with it. If he's re-elected wait & see!

Yob Atta :)
 
Wow, feel the hatred. (chuckle) This is a great example of how ideologically-left this board is.

Democracy without opposition is not democracy at all.
 
Pangloss said:

Wow, feel the hatred. (chuckle) This is a great example of how ideologically-left this board is.

Is there anything legitimate about politics anymore? Does the fact that a person really doesn't like being lied to somehow make them automatically a leftist?

When the forest is on fire, we fight the fire. We do not stop and talk about all the real estate that will be available if we let the forest burn.

I think people who can only perceive anti-Bushism as hatred are lacking spiritual integrity. Certainly there are groups out there that openly hate the President, but many of those were inspired by the actions of his presidency, and those who hated him before his inauguration seem to be vindicated by the course of history since.

Should I look at you and say, "Wow, feel the hatred--this is a great example of how ignorance fears the left"?

By the way, the United States is not a democracy. When you vote for President, you will be voting as a resident of your state, and not as a citizen of the United States. At no time do Americans vote as Americans; their highest vote is as a citizen of their state.
 
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