The farce of Judgment

W

water

the sea
Registered Senior Member
The farce of Judgment



Some Christians say that God will judge, and they like to call upon this, as if they respect it.
But some of these Christians also say that they are already saved, and that God will forgive them their tresspasses.

This means that they believe Judgment will have no detrimental consequences for them.


So why then call upon Judgment at all -- when it will make no difference for the worse for them?!
 
water said:
The farce of Judgment

Some Christians say that God will judge, and they like to call upon this, as if they respect it.
But some of these Christians also say that they are already saved, and that God will forgive them their tresspasses.

This means that they believe Judgment will have no detrimental consequences for them.

So why then call upon Judgment at all -- when it will make no difference for the worse for them?!
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M*W: Good point. I think for the most part christians believe they are saved, and judgment is reserved for everybody else.
 
Being saved and being judged doesn't refer to different things, they refer to the same thing: God judges who is saved and who isn't. Christians may have an expectance of salvation because they believe God forgives sin, but that isn't what saves them (Matt. 7:23). No-one who really believes in the price of their forgiveness will continue sinning (1 John 3:6; Rom. 6) - that's what "repentance" means. Someone who calls himself a Christian, even acts in God's name, but lives as if sin isn't still subject to judgement (i.e. as if judgement is a farce) only denies the authority and mocks the mercy of the God who forgave him. You may be certain there are detrimental consequences to that! (see the parable of the forgiven debt in Matt. 18:23-35).
 
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water

water said:
The farce of Judgment


Some Christians say that God will judge, and they like to call upon this, as if they respect it.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by the expression "call upon" Judgement



But some of these Christians also say that they are already saved, and that God will forgive them their trespasses.
Click to expand...

That's true.



This means that they believe Judgment will have no detrimental consequences for them.
Click to expand...

No, it means that Our Judgement will not lead to the worst consequence, Eternity in the lake of fire. Being saved is about being saved from an eternity in the lake of fire,



So why then call upon Judgment at all -- when it will make no difference for the worse for them?!
Click to expand...

Once again water what do you mean by the expression "call upon Judgment" What is it that they do when they call upon judgement?



All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
I have seen people who consider themselves Christians to do wrong. Then, they have apologized for the wrongdoing, and in this called upon God's judgement -- how God will judge them for their wrongdoing. These same people, however, also stated to believe that they are already saved, that their salvation is sure, and that they shall not end up in Hell, in other words, they will endure no harm from God.
So where then is the effect of the judgment, why fear it or respect it, if it will make no detrimental difference for them??
 
I can't help but feel stupid whenever I talk about God in 2006, thats just me.
 
there in is the diffence between protestants and catholics, catholic doctrine states jesus has saved us through his resurection. for as we die in sin we rise with him, but each and every time we sin we are called to repent, and try again just as jesus fell on his way to calvary and kept going. just the catholic way to look at it but one is not fully "Saved" until they die and reside in heaven. in other words we have to meet jesus halfway.
 
water said:
The farce of Judgment



Some Christians say that God will judge, and they like to call upon this, as if they respect it.
But some of these Christians also say that they are already saved, and that God will forgive them their tresspasses.

This means that they believe Judgment will have no detrimental consequences for them.


So why then call upon Judgment at all -- when it will make no difference for the worse for them?!
Click to expand...
Seems to me they purport to know the thoughts of God.

Mmmmm. Hubris.
 
baumgarten said:
Seems to me they purport to know the thoughts of God.

Mmmmm. Hubris.
Click to expand...

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M*W: You bring up a good point. For over four years now, I have been an active member on this forum. The only christian member that I know of who purports to know the thoughts of God is Jenyar. Even die-hard christians like Adstar and Woody don't make claims as if they were in the mind of God, but Jenyar does. I was admonished once for my criticism of Jenyar saying that he was speaking in "met-a-phor." If God existed, why would anyone need to speak in "met-a-phor?" I realize that since no god does exist, one can only speak in "met-a-phor" about god.

Why, then, is the mind of "god" only spoken of through "met-a-phor?" One need only take a look back at Jenyar's posts to understand the dufusology he uses. He's not just a christian. He's a phony christian. Only a phony christian would speak in "met-a-phor."

"Met-a-phor" is used when reality is absent.
 
Oops. MedWom, you almost upset baumgarten with your harshness. Be careful. Baum already knows my cookie has razorwire chips with a yummy rat poison coating. Man, why am I so enamored of tormenting this baumgarten person? Maybe I should reflect on that...
 
But superluminal, my bike hasn't got a kickstand.

EDIT: It's probably the Myspace avatar. It serves me well.
 
water said:
I have seen people who consider themselves Christians to do wrong. Then, they have apologized for the wrongdoing, and in this called upon God's judgement -- how God will judge them for their wrongdoing.
Click to expand...

So when a Christian apologizes for a wrong doing they are "calling upon Judgement" ? That’s an odd way to describe an apology. I though you might have meant calling upon judgement as people calling for God to punish wrongdoers. I still do not get the point you are trying to make.



These same people, however, also stated to believe that they are already saved, that their salvation is sure, and that they shall not end up in Hell, in other words, they will endure no harm from God.
So where then is the effect of the judgment, why fear it or respect it, if it will make no detrimental difference for them??
Click to expand...

Just because we will not face the ultimate penalty for a crime does not mean we should feel no shame for our crimes or that we should not be bothered to apologise or try to offset the bad affects of our wrong doing. Salvation has never been a licence to commit evil with impunity. Those who have the right spirit regret their wrong doings, The fact that they are saved does not make wrong doing ok.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Chatha said:
I can't help but feel stupid whenever I talk about God in 2006, thats just me.
Click to expand...


Nope, that was prophisized in the Bible, that more and more people would eventually start to turn away from God. And guess what? It's happening.
 
Nope, that's was prophesized in the Bible, that more and more people would eventually start to turn away from God. And guess what? It's happening.
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But how can you turn away from something you have never seen or encountered? By the way which God are we insinuating? Osiri, Zeus, or are we now talking about- Appollo? Of cause it was the Egyptian king that unified all gods into one God for the sake of spiritual power- back then spiritual power was political leverage at worst. Of cause Christianity only became popular because it was the official religion of the dominant people and culture of that time- Romans, who by the way also worshipped all sorts of deities on the side. The holy Roman Catholic Church went on to become wealthy by selling salvation to people, created an army, waged camouflaged war on people that offended them by calling it religious war, and generally created false hysteria. I mean I don’t want to sound like a too-modern-man but don’t you think if something is out there and really loves you it would someday say “hello”. I don’t know about you but my messiah isn’t going to be a man in white cloth, seems too ordinary to me, but appearances can be deceiving if you consider Jean Grey of the X –men. All in all I feel deep down in my guts...I mean deep down I feel like I am being taking for a ride, I better GITTIUP!
 
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Yes, I do feel silly when reading holy texts such as the bible and the quran with their seeming magic, mysticism, tales of different beasts, and the way it metaphors many things. Especially the few times I went to church, it was embarrassing thinking those people may think I believe in that stuff. Most christians and muslims don't speak of it whether they feel it or not because they will think it is sacrilege. Some don't want to cross that line to help others understand that they feel that way also, some would rather ignore that and leave others in the dark or just insult them for feeling that way. It's common. Once you come to understand that no one is perfect and especially back then, mysticism was seemingly a science of the times but the main message is how you treat your fellow humans. You read the morals behind the books and judge for yourself, is this how I should treat another? Not, 'uh, serpents don't exist'. God is in us, not in a book. But the word can lead us to God. But once I read the bible some, I got the basic jist of it, who God was but never quite believed because of inconsistencies in the bible. That is until I found Him through science. Anyhow, I feel I know who He is and what He wants so I don't think I need a bible. I can function morally just as good as any christian with a bible or any muslim with the quran. The link to God has already been established.
 
Nice! I think I get your message- "it is the idea that matters". Too bad some people molded it into a belief, that is where the hypocracy and hysterics start.
 
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