The Falsity of Religion: Twelve Indisputable Arguments

[Isaac Newton]

The following is from http://www.thebirdman.org/

The Falsity of Religion: Twelve Indisputable Arguments

By John "Birdman" Bryant

Religion today hangs on the horns of a dilemma: On the one hand, it is false in the scientific sense, as we shall demonstrate below; but on the other hand, because religion in one form or another has been around as long as recorded history -- and in fact has played a central role in man's social and personal life -- it is almost certain that religion is useful in the sense that it has helped men to survive. The real dilemma of religion, however, is that it must be believed in order to be useful, yet this is impossible when people know that it is false.

The obvious solution to this dilemma -- if indeed there is a solution -- is to discover what is useful about religion, and to try to make use of this knowledge. This I have attempted to do in my book The Most Powerful Idea Ever Discovered. But we will be stymied in our attempt to accomplish this task -- or at least to bring it to fruition in the sense of teaching others -- if we do not first and finally sweep away the foolishness of religious belief by making a plain and clear statement as to religion's literal falsity. Accordingly, we cite below what we view as twelve compelling reasons why a rational person must regard religion as false.

Complete text at http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Relig/Relig-Atheist.html

Regards,

Judith

 

[Greco]

I dont see how you going to get around the "after life insurance policy". What are you going to offer someone to follow your steps? That's what my aunt(a JW) says to me when I tell her she's delussional. Make me a better offer she says. I cant promise her an afterlife and neither can I persuade her to be courageous and dump her beliefs for cold hearted reality.

Another benefit of religious faith is the belief that God is behind you, supporting you, giving you the strength to suceed in your endevors. There's a lot of people that have beat drug abuse and alcoholism by converting and believing in God.


There was a book written long time ago by Robert Ruark that dealt with africa. I cant remember much about the book except the concept that if you destroy somebodys value system you better have a humdinger to replace it.

 

[Siddhartha]

I can't really find the effort to read that site if the author can't find the effort to lay it out in at least a semi-aesthetic manner.

 

[AAF]

The following is from http://www.thebirdman.org/

The Falsity of Religion: Twelve Indisputable Arguments

By John "Birdman" Bryant

Religion today hangs on the horns of a dilemma: .................
....................................................
...........twelve compelling reasons why a rational person must regard religion as false.

Complete text at http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Relig/Relig-Atheist.html

Regards,

Judith

Very good.............
Unfortunely this statement ".......it is almost certain that religion is useful in the sense that it has helped men to survive..." is a fallacy.
Because it is quite possible that people have survived in spite of religion, not with its help. A person may live for years in spite of his illness. Does that mean illness has helped him to survive thus far? Absolutely not.....

 

[BigBlueHead]

That's what my aunt(a JW) says to me when I tell her she's delussional. Make me a better offer she says. I cant promise her an afterlife and neither can I persuade her to be courageous and dump her beliefs for cold hearted reality.

I can sure as hell offer a better delusion than the Jehovah's Witnesses have.

How about being able to "be" anything you want? Be a falcon, and dive through the skies at hundreds of kilometres an hour. Be a dolphin, to feel the rush of water over your skin and see the world through sound as well as sight. Be undying, master of your world, able to feel the pains and pleasures of other creatures as you feel your own. Walk the wonders of infinite dream...

Or, if you like, believe in God's eternal tea party, where you sit and stare at his perfection like it's some kind of narcotic. Sit up in heaven with the other 143999 JW's who made it in, or maybe be damned to destruction with the hundreds of thousands of JW's who didn't because there was no room. The choice between damnation/God junkie is a miserable dream. I can think of better ones with no effort at all.

In any case, any religious person who asks you to "make them a better offer" has lost the argument by opening their mouth. Doesn't this approach make them seem hypocritical to you?

 

[Greco]

"How about being able to "be" anything you want? Be a falcon, and dive through the skies at hundreds of kilometres an hour. Be a dolphin, to feel the rush of water over your skin and see the world through sound as well as sight. Be undying, master of your world, able to feel the pains and pleasures of other creatures as you feel your own. Walk the wonders of infinite dream..".

Greco: Man I want whatever your smoking



"Or, if you like, believe in God's eternal tea party, where you sit and stare at his perfection like it's some kind of narcotic. Sit up in heaven with the other 143999 JW's who made it in, or maybe be damned to destruction with the hundreds of thousands of JW's who didn't because there was no room. The choice between damnation/God junkie is a miserable dream. I can think of better ones with no effort at all."


Greco: Listen Bigbluehead, my aunt is a 78 year old woman she getting ready to kick the bucket the idea of no after life scares the shit out of her. I think it's kind of cruel to destroy her fantasy.

"In any case, any religious person who asks you to "make them a better offer" has lost the argument by opening their mouth. Doesn't this approach make them seem hypocritical to you?"

Greco: What my aunt was trying to say was that Jehovah was offering her after life if she followed JW dogma. If she was willing to listen to me she wanted to know what I had to offer. No after life, No listen.

 

[Raithere]

There are any number of problems with religion but "12 indisputable arguments" as to the falsity of all religion. I think not.

Reason 1: The nature of scientific vs religious belief
...science is actually a religion

That it maintains certain premises as axiomatic does not make science a religion.

On the other hand, people become converts to religion because they think they see that it works, but are mistaken:

This simply begs the question. Error is presumed here, not proven.

Reason 2: The nature of religious theories vs scientific ones:

Religion does not present theories in a scientific sense (or it would be science), it makes assertions. Whether these assertions can be validated by religious philosophy or science is another matter.

In contrast, religious theories are accepted on the basis of the babblings of religious hermits who beat themselves bloody, refuse to wash, and -- small wonder -- haven't had sex for at least six weeks (OK, make that 40 days).

Fallacy: ad hominem, and irrelevant.

Reason 3: Religion's logical contradictions

Only a single Biblical contradiction is presented. Not even all Christians follow a literal interpretation and this says nothing regarding other religions.

Reason 4: Religion's incredible shrinking knowledge:

See answer to #3.

Reason 5: Religion's immoral leaders:

Ad Hominem.

Reason 6: Religion's questionable moral codes:
... these codes are usually deficient and often highly ambiguous. For example, there is no consensus on many controversial moral issues

"Deficient" and "ambiguous" are presumed, no argument is given that presents such a conclusion. Lack of consensus points to a fragmentation, a disparity of ethical values and says nothing about the quality of those values individually.

Reason 7: Religion's historical origins: The origin of most religions does not encourage belief.

Once again the only argument is against a Christian literalist interpretation. This doesn't even cover most Christians much less most religious people.

Reason 8: Religion's appeal to the human ego:

This is only an error if the appeal is being used as an argument for religion, which is not generally true. Whether any postulate is appealing or unappealing to the ego is irrelevant to the veracity of the postulate.

Reason 9: Religion's 'explanatory' appeal: The importance of religion for many people is that it explains how the world came into existence ("Because God created it") and the purpose of their life ("To worship God and do his bidding").

Again, the scope is too narrow. Not all religions assert this.

Reason 10: Religion's psychological origins: Many years ago, the famous Harvard psychologist B.F. Skinner did an experiment

While fascinating, Skinner's experiment proved the development of what might be termed "superstition". To make the leap from superstitious pigeons to a full fledged human religious philosophy is a gap too large to cross without further development.

Reason 11: The argument from the multiplicity of religions: There are dozens, and perhaps even hundreds or thousands of religions, all of which claim to be 'absolutely true', and all of which contradict one another in fundamental ways. The only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn from this is that all of them are absolutely false.

Quite wrong. First of all, not all religions lay claim to absolute truth. In fact some assert that no such thing exists. Also, by way of analogy; if I make the following assertions does that mean all of them are false? 1+1=20, 1+1=140, 1+1=.33, 1+1=2

Reason 12: The argument from impudence: The following is a quote from my book The Mortal Words of J.B.R. Yant: It is the simplest of simple things to prove that God does not exist. Just look toward the sky, raise your middle finger, and say, "Hey, you son- of-a-bitch mother-fucker up there, if you're so God-damned all-powerful, then let's see if you can strike down little old me, you big over-praised, over-blown ass-hole." When nothing happens, the proposition is proved, Q.E.D.

Funny but it presumes that God cares if you flip him off and that he did not just cause one of your brain-cells to mutate into a malignant neoplasm.

~Raithere

 

[BigBlueHead]

Greco: What my aunt was trying to say was that Jehovah was offering her after life if she followed JW dogma. If she was willing to listen to me she wanted to know what I had to offer. No after life, No listen.

Now think about treating... I dunno... your marriage this way. "I stay with my spouse because right now they are offering me the best deal. If anything better comes along I would ditch them in a second."

Now, that's no way to treat your spouse... but it's okay to think of your god that way? Forgive me, but I didn't think the concept of faith included "until something better comes along."

In any case, your aunt is still betting on someone's story, and thinks it is more credible because there are more people nodding their heads to that one... since proof is pretty scarce in religion, faith is all you get, and your aunt makes faith look a lot like mortal terror. That's not a good enough reason to believe something for which there is no real evidence.

 

[Greco]

BBH: "until something better comes along."

Don't scientists do the same, believe in Newton till "something better" Einstein comes along. We all live in this expanding knowledge bubble that's our reality. But what happens tomorrow when "something better" is unfolded and we buy into it, discarding old notions?

Yes we even do it to our partners, men leave their wives,wives leave their husbands for "something better". Is it right? Don't know, maybe, who is the judge?

BBH: In any case, your aunt is still betting on someone's story...

Yes I agree it's the old Pascal wager, for an avout atheist it's almost heretical to bet on it, but for my aunt it's different. She can sleep at night knowing she has made the correct bets.

 

[BigBlueHead]

Greco:

There is no evidence of an afterlife. There wasn't any before, there likely won't be any in the future. If your aunt believes in the afterlife she is buying a dream from a used dream salesman. "Scientists" should not leap from one theory to another without evidence, depending only on which one makes them more comfortable... nor should they cling to one without any evidence, but rather admit their ignorance.

If there is no afterlife, then what is the point of fearing death? Do you make plans for after your death? (Don't.) Do you think being dead will hurt? Not existing isn't painful. The process by which you cease to exist may be a fearful thing, but the death process is going to happen whether or not you have an afterlife...

The only thing to fear about death is losing your free will/agency to do things that you want. Your aunt is already lying to herself so that she doesn't have to live in fear, and will only open her ears to hear a more attractive or convincing lie, so it's difficult to see how she's worried about her free will, since she's wrapped about with chains of her own forging. She could also sleep at night with drugs...