The double solution theory, a new interpretation of Wave Mechanics

Interesting additions to that Wiki. Unfortunately, unwelcome thinking like yours, and to a lesser degree these days, like mine, brings out the negative hyper intuitiveness of people who get chummy with each and then start sharing their disdain in what I find to be an obnoxious display off topic banter.

You make some valid points, provide links, and when someone fails to make valid counterpoints, but instead unleashes their disdain, I don't blame you for reposting the links and ideas that they failed to dispel.

There are forums for people who insist on discussions that contain no alternative ideas, or speculation. This forum, at least in its current posture, allows that, and my suggestion to those who insist on hard science and no discussion of speculative ideas, go where they and their children will be safe from people who think like you and me.

In the mean time, the concept of an aether or a medium of space is great discussion topic in a science forum. People want to make it out as absurd, but it does fit into place where some of the generally accepted science thinking falls short. Quantum gravity for example is a popular topic, as are gravity waves and their means of transmission.

Here is a small portion of the following link with some comments that might help bring the discussion back on topic:
Scienceblogs
Or is really both. And it makes sense to me that the composition of particles would be both wave and particle like if they exert and respond to gravity. The wave nature could represent the gravity waves that they emit and "feel", and the particle nature could be what the wave-particle resolves to when observed directly.
Or you will find it in one place but you will not be able to see the wave associated with it directly, only in the interference pattern that appears in various experiments. But even if you observe only the particle state, maybe the wave state goes on unobserved.
That is certainly observable, and an apparatus can be rigged at home (I do it) that will demonstrate the pattern you get with two slits and with one slit. Interference is easy to see and understand as the wave associated with the particle, and that wave goes through both slits to produce it. The particle is always detected to have gone through one or the other slit.
True to the extent that quantum physics takes it. The possibility of continuous wave action in the medium of space though, would add a continuous background within which the discrete quantum nature of particles and light emerges. Along with the view that there is a foundational medium and continuous wave action is the concept that gravity waves are continuous waves emanating from a particle and being received by a particle. The particle though is particular, and can only add or remove energy in quantum increments.

The article and my comments go on, but this is enough to give people an opportunity to discuss science topics instead of just their mutual disdain :).

Read this again https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment#de_Broglie.27s_wave_mechanics. It's not speculative. It's beyond speculation. You have Nobel Laureates stating space is like a piece of window glass. You have the walking droplets section which is showing de Broglie's pilot wave at the macroscopic level. You have Aephraim Steinberg discussing the current state of quantum mechanics with terms like "brainwashing" where asking where the particle is in a double slit experiment is "immoral" and that physicists have lost their ability to use their "common sense" to understand what occurs in a double slit experiment.

A moving particle has an associated aether displacement wave. In a double slit experiment the particle travels through a single slit and the associated wave in the aether passes through both.

The above sentence is not speculative. The above sentence is the most correct explanation as to what occurs physically in nature in a double slit experiment to date.
 
Read this again https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment#de_Broglie.27s_wave_mechanics. It's not speculative. It's beyond speculation. You have Nobel Laureates stating space is like a piece of window glass. You have the walking droplets section which is showing de Broglie's pilot wave at the macroscopic level. You have Aephraim Steinberg discussing the current state of quantum mechanics with terms like "brainwashing" where asking where the particle is in a double slit experiment is "immoral" and that physicists have lost their ability to use their "common sense" to understand what occurs in a double slit experiment.

A moving particle has an associated aether displacement wave. In a double slit experiment the particle travels through a single slit and the associated wave in the aether passes through both.

The above sentence is not speculative. The above sentence is the most correct explanation as to what occurs physically in nature in a double slit experiment to date.
So you say. I think it is a good topic for discussion, and everyone can and will characterize it in the way they see it.
 
So you say. I think it is a good topic for discussion, and everyone can and will characterize it in the way they see it.

Particles are particles and waves are waves.

There is evidence of the aether every time a double slit experiment is performed; it's what waves.

What ripples when galaxy clusters collide is what waves in a double slit experiment; the aether.

Einstein's gravitational wave is de Broglie's pilot-wave; both are waves in the aether.

Aether displaced by matter relates general relativity and quantum mechanics.
 
Read this again https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment#de_Broglie.27s_wave_mechanics. It's not speculative. It's beyond speculation. You have Nobel Laureates stating space is like a piece of window glass. You have the walking droplets section which is showing de Broglie's pilot wave at the macroscopic level. You have Aephraim Steinberg discussing the current state of quantum mechanics with terms like "brainwashing" where asking where the particle is in a double slit experiment is "immoral" and that physicists have lost their ability to use their "common sense" to understand what occurs in a double slit experiment.

A moving particle has an associated aether displacement wave. In a double slit experiment the particle travels through a single slit and the associated wave in the aether passes through both.

The above sentence is not speculative. The above sentence is the most correct explanation as to what occurs physically in nature in a double slit experiment to date.

Not only are your assertions completely speculative, they contain the same strawman logic and selective quoting of media conversations with laymen that creationists use to argue that Noah's Ark should be taught in biology class instead of evolution. Nothing more I can say to you at this point, because you've turned into a broken record that keeps repeating the same rubbish like a parrot but never learns or demonstrates anything new or useful in the process. I do like though how you're inadvertently showing Quantum Wave what makes mainstream science so successful compared to cranks who normally can't agree on anything except that they don't like the existing picture.
 
Not only are your assertions completely speculative, they contain the same strawman logic and selective quoting of media conversations with laymen that creationists use to argue that Noah's Ark should be taught in biology class instead of evolution. Nothing more I can say to you at this point, because you've turned into a broken record that keeps repeating the same rubbish like a parrot but never learns or demonstrates anything new or useful in the process. I do like though how you're inadvertently showing Quantum Wave what makes mainstream science so successful compared to cranks who normally can't agree on anything except that they don't like the existing picture.

You are so brainwashed you can't understand what "This physical picture is remakably similar to an early model of quantum dynamics proposed by Louis de Broglie..." means.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmC0ygr08tE
 
So you say.

You responded to my first point about how the hidden variables interpretations that Bell used were formulated by saying you don't think I understood your link. Do you want to respond to the point that all of the hidden variables interpretations falsified by Bell had to be formulated within the formal structure of QM. There were no intrepretaions based on the structure of QM being incomplete. And yet that is the point; QM may not yet be complete. But I'm not intending to convince anyone, I'm just conveying my position.

Again, your objections don't address the nature of Bell's theorem or its experimental tests, and that's why I think you clearly don't understand what it's about, regardless of how many layman sources you claim to have glanced at. Bell didn't falsify anything, per se. What he did is he showed mathematically that any local hidden variable theory whatsoever has to make a different statistical prediction than the one offered by the Copenhagen Interpretation, and that this difference can be tested. 15 years later, technology caught up to theory, experiments were performed and local hidden variables were statistically falsified beyond any reasonable doubt, but that wasn't Bell's work. Your argument that the results of these experiments depend on interpreting quantum mechanics a specific way holds no water, it only indicates to me that you simply don't understand the subject; the axes of spin measurements in Alain Aspect's original experiments were only decided after the photons were created and separated, so in a local hidden variable theory it's impossible for this choice to produce "spooky action at a distance", whereas action at a distance has been thoroughly demonstrated in these experiments via statistics, and it's a result independent of how QM is formulated or interpreted.
 
You are so brainwashed you can't understand what "This physical picture is remakably similar to an early model of quantum dynamics proposed by Louis de Broglie..." means.

And that pyramid-shaped hotel with the Sphinx in Vegas is remarkably similar to early constructions found in northeast Africa, so that means Las Vegas must have been founded by ancient Egyptians.
 
Again, your objections don't address the nature of Bell's theorem or its experimental tests, and that's why I think you clearly don't understand what it's about, regardless of how many layman sources you claim to have glanced at. Bell didn't falsify anything, per se. What he did is he showed mathematically that any local hidden variable theory whatsoever has to make a different statistical prediction than the one offered by the Copenhagen Interpretation, and that this difference can be tested. 15 years later, technology caught up to theory, experiments were performed and local hidden variables were statistically falsified beyond any reasonable doubt, but that wasn't Bell's work. Your argument that the results of these experiments depend on interpreting quantum mechanics a specific way holds no water, it only indicates to me that you simply don't understand the subject; the axes of spin measurements in Alain Aspect's original experiments were only decided after the photons were created and separated, so in a local hidden variable theory it's impossible for this choice to produce "spooky action at a distance", whereas action at a distance has been thoroughly demonstrated in these experiments via statistics, and it's a result independent of how QM is formulated or interpreted.

If you were interested in learning something you could watch the following video starting at 2:10. It refers to de Broglie's wave mechanics as an "Exposed Variable Theory". Meaning, it is not a hidden variable theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmC0ygr08tE
 
And that pyramid-shaped hotel with the Sphinx in Vegas is remarkably similar to early constructions found in northeast Africa, so that means Las Vegas must have been founded by ancient Egyptians.

That's a quote by MIT physicists. Enjoy your ignorance.
 
That's a quote by MIT physicists. Enjoy your ignorance.

You take the quote far beyond its intended domain of applicability, and completely ignore the part that says none of their results contradict the Copenhagen view. Enjoy being wrong.
 
You take the quote far beyond its intended domain of applicability, and completely ignore the part that says none of their results contradict the Copenhagen view. Enjoy being wrong.

http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2013/when-fluid-dynamics-mimic-quantum-mechanics-0729

“If you have a system that is deterministic and is what we call in the business ‘chaotic,’ or sensitive to initial conditions, sensitive to perturbations, then it can behave probabilistically,” Milewski continues. “Experiments like this weren’t available to the giants of quantum mechanics. They also didn’t know anything about chaos. Suppose these guys — who were puzzled by why the world behaves in this strange probabilistic way — actually had access to experiments like this and had the knowledge of chaos, would they have come up with an equivalent, deterministic theory of quantum mechanics, which is not the current one? That’s what I find exciting from the quantum perspective.”

Meaning, the founders of QM, other than de Broglie, were incorrect.
 
Yes, that is the "crime" to which I was referring.

For everyone else: note how he makes no attempt to answer the questions asked. The subject displays no interest even in developing his own idea.

What questions? The questions about your inability to understand particles are particles and waves are waves?

Q. Do you know why the particle is always detected entering, traveling through and exiting a single slit in a double slit experiment?
A. The particle always travels through a single slit. It is the associated wave in the aether which passes through both.
 
http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2013/when-fluid-dynamics-mimic-quantum-mechanics-0729

“If you have a system that is deterministic and is what we call in the business ‘chaotic,’ or sensitive to initial conditions, sensitive to perturbations, then it can behave probabilistically,” Milewski continues. “Experiments like this weren’t available to the giants of quantum mechanics. They also didn’t know anything about chaos. Suppose these guys — who were puzzled by why the world behaves in this strange probabilistic way — actually had access to experiments like this and had the knowledge of chaos, would they have come up with an equivalent, deterministic theory of quantum mechanics, which is not the current one? That’s what I find exciting from the quantum perspective.”

Meaning, the founders of QM, other than de Broglie, were incorrect.

No, it just means you have reading comprehension issues. I see talk about how complex deterministic behaviours can mimic random behaviours, nothing more. Scientists have known that since the 1960's and probably speculated on it long before then. I see nothing in your quote about addressing nature's proven nonlocality with any alternative to the randomness of the Copenhagen view.

Please explain, in your own words, why the scientists you quote openly accept that their results are perfectly consistent with a theory which makes no assumptions about particles having definite positions and momenta? If you can account for all the observations in nature without making assumptions about well-defined positions and momenta, then that means you have no way of experimentally proving that such things really exist.
 
What questions?
The ones in the post you were responding to.

To all: note how the subject pretends not to have even seen the questions I asked - when he could just go back and check, if he had truly just missed them. Clearly, discussion is not really desired here; just parroting. I think this is evidence that the subject is trolling: he is aware of the fact that his idea lacks depth and would fail if developed further, so he avoids developing it.
 
No, it just means you have reading comprehension issues. I see talk about how complex deterministic behaviours can mimic random behaviours, nothing more. Scientists have known that since the 1960's and probably speculated on it long before then. I see nothing in your quote about addressing nature's proven nonlocality with any alternative to the randomness of the Copenhagen view.

Please explain, in your own words, why the scientists you quote openly accept that their results are perfectly consistent with a theory which makes no assumptions about particles having definite positions and momenta? If you can account for all the observations in nature without making assumptions about well-defined positions and momenta, then that means you have no way of experimentally proving that such things really exist.

From 2:10 in the video, "Whatever the case may be in quantum mechanics, the statistics are an incomplete description of our fluid system and emerge from an underlying pilot-wave dynamics"

'Interpretation of quantum mechanics by the double solution theory Louis de BROGLIE'
http://aflb.ensmp.fr/AFLB-classiques/aflb124p001.pdf

"XII. Conclusion
Such is, in its main lines, the present state of the Wave mechanics interpretation by the double-solution theory, and its thermodynamical extension. I think that when this interpretation is further elaborated, extended, and eventually modified in some of its aspects, it will lead to a better understanding of the true coexistence of waves and particles about which actual Quantum mechanics only gives statistical information, often correct, but in my opinion incomplete."


The Copenhagen interpretation is statistical and incomplete.
 
The ones in the post you were responding to.

To all: note how the subject pretends not to have even seen the questions I asked - when he could just go back and check, if he had truly just missed them. Clearly, discussion is not really desired here; just parroting. I think this is evidence that the subject is trolling: he is aware of the fact that his idea lacks depth and would fail if developed further, so he avoids developing it.

You could ask them again. You could also understand particles are particles and waves are waves; however, there is zero chance of that happening.
 
Again, your objections don't address the nature of Bell's theorem or its experimental tests, and that's why I think you clearly don't understand what it's about, regardless of how many layman sources you claim to have glanced at. Bell didn't falsify anything, per se. What he did is he showed mathematically that any local hidden variable theory whatsoever has to make a different statistical prediction than the one offered by the Copenhagen Interpretation, and that this difference can be tested. 15 years later, technology caught up to theory, experiments were performed and local hidden variables were statistically falsified beyond any reasonable doubt, but that wasn't Bell's work. Your argument that the results of these experiments depend on interpreting quantum mechanics a specific way holds no water, it only indicates to me that you simply don't understand the subject; the axes of spin measurements in Alain Aspect's original experiments were only decided after the photons were created and separated, so in a local hidden variable theory it's impossible for this choice to produce "spooky action at a distance", whereas action at a distance has been thoroughly demonstrated in these experiments via statistics, and it's a result independent of how QM is formulated or interpreted.
I think we have reached a point beyond which you are not willing to go. You can't acknowledge that hidden variables interpretations necessarily posit that existing QM is incomplete. The experiements you say have put the issue to rest have not put the issue to rest, and that is because of what you can't seem to acknowledge. If QM is incomplete, you are wrong. If it is complete, I am wrong. So you say it is complete, fine. If you say there is room for future developments, but still want to turn your responses to my personal lack of understanding, fine too.
 
You could ask them again.
Certainly. And you could copy-paste/parrot a response again. So why would I waste my time when you won't even show the tiniest bit of effort required to read what is already written?

To all: now the subject attempts to continue the loop by asking to move past the previous post and needlesly restate the questions. Clearly this is just a ploy to waste more time through needless repetion as a substitute for actual discussion.
 
Certainly. And you could copy-paste/parrot a response again. So why would I waste my time when you won't even show the tiniest bit of effort required to read what is already written?

To all: now the subject attempts to continue the loop by asking to move past the previous post and needlesly restate the questions. Clearly this is just a ploy to waste more time through needless repetion as a substitute for actual discussion.

Instead of me looking through hundreds of posts trying to find what it is you asked that you don't think I answered, I'm just asking you to post the questions again. Of course that's probably asking too much of someone who can't understand particles are particles and waves are waves.
 
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