The Disclosure Project
- Thread starter y2k
- Start date
I know about it. The fellow who introduced Greer to former CIA director Woolsey was a guest in my home a few years ago. Greer's an unusual guy. The work he's done on the project is exceptional, highly credible, the best one could hope for, considering the constraints he's working under. I don't necessarily agree with all of his conjecture about the nature of the phenomenon, but do agree that, yes, there absolutely is something strange going on.
I've seen it.
Great work.
Better than anyone on this site could do on this subject or any other for that matter.
Great work.
Better than anyone on this site could do on this subject or any other for that matter.
What is the disclosure project, in a nut-shell?
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
I shall take a risk here, since it's a Sunday, and answer without checking my facts. Live dangerously, eh. I say this because I could be confusing two organisations. If I'm not then this is the disclosure project.
The founder of the project interviewed over one hundred individuals who were government employees of one kind or another. This ranged, I think, from congressmen, to clerks, to air force colonels. They all had something to say, either about sightings they had made, or heard about, or concerning the alleged suppression of the evidence of those sightings.
These interviews are available on tape (I don't recall if it is sound or video) for a price. There is a website somewhere with tantalising (
) extracts from the interviews.
I have nor purchased the tape [I trust none of you thought I was that foolish.] I have examined what is on offer. I found it trite, simplistic and wholly unconvincing. You should try googling for the site and form your own conclusion.
The founder of the project interviewed over one hundred individuals who were government employees of one kind or another. This ranged, I think, from congressmen, to clerks, to air force colonels. They all had something to say, either about sightings they had made, or heard about, or concerning the alleged suppression of the evidence of those sightings.
These interviews are available on tape (I don't recall if it is sound or video) for a price. There is a website somewhere with tantalising (
) extracts from the interviews. I have nor purchased the tape [I trust none of you thought I was that foolish.] I have examined what is on offer. I found it trite, simplistic and wholly unconvincing. You should try googling for the site and form your own conclusion.
They're currently having a "sale." You can get the disclosure witness DVD for a mere $15 down from the $30 it used to sell at. At these prices, Greer's sales might put Walmart under. Then again, perhaps not.
The claim is that they are able to "reduce prices" because of increased donorship. I'm betting its overstock and the shit simply wasn't moving so they followed basic economic principles that any businessman would when stuck with high volumes of high priced product: cut prices and re-brand it.
Its a scam. Greer is a con-artist.
The claim is that they are able to "reduce prices" because of increased donorship. I'm betting its overstock and the shit simply wasn't moving so they followed basic economic principles that any businessman would when stuck with high volumes of high priced product: cut prices and re-brand it.
Its a scam. Greer is a con-artist.
heliocentric
Registered Senior Member
Its a fine body of work, the interviews are completely genuine and well put together.
I actually got a pdf of the material free from a guy who runs a ufo website. Otherwise you have to pay for the information, this does seem to be the one thing that counts against greer and leaves a sour taste in people's mouths. It offen leads people to label him a con-man (see above post) which he isnt, probably just greedy at best. Even so the information should be made freely and publicly available, it really doesnt help his cause when hes gathering important information and then using it to make money.
I actually got a pdf of the material free from a guy who runs a ufo website. Otherwise you have to pay for the information, this does seem to be the one thing that counts against greer and leaves a sour taste in people's mouths. It offen leads people to label him a con-man (see above post) which he isnt, probably just greedy at best. Even so the information should be made freely and publicly available, it really doesnt help his cause when hes gathering important information and then using it to make money.
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
This is truly a dumb post on two quite diverse counts. Therefore I applaud your diversity. Most people on these forums seem to be capable of only a singular foolishness. You are foolish in stereo.heliocentric said:
Lunacy 1: You describe it as a fine body of work. I take it you have had no scientific training, no classes in technical writing, no experience of assessing evidence.
Lunacy 2:I have zero objection to him charging money. Do you really think he should gather this information at his expense as some form of charity? How presumptuous can one get? You are in danger of setting new standards.
Please do not take any of the above as a personal attack. I am simply attacking your rather quaint idea with a few well honed rhetorical devices. If you really want to put me in my place then prove the high quality of the work, or justify why it should be made available for free.
heliocentric said:
Its a fine body of work? I suppose if you "want to believe," to quote Fox Mulder's poster.
However, when looked at with an objective and critical eye, the entire project fails miserably. It contains NO EVIDENCE. It relies only on the testimony of believers. The entire body of work appeals to authority and seeks to assert that quantity can make up for quality.
Testimonials are not evidence. They are merely testiments of one's belief. Take these testimonials for instance. Are they evidence of a god's influence or just what people believe?
Here are more testimonials for a program that claims to be the "Healing Touch for Animals® (HTA)[:] a bio-field energy-medicine modality combining philosophies, techniques and applications to promote energy balance and healing of our animals."
What about the testimonials of Trinity Table ™ & Magnetic Sound Chamber ™? Notice they are trademarked.
Speaking of "healing," here are some testimonials for Reiki, a method of healing that involves the "manipulation of ki."
If you don't want to be critical of the healing fantasies of others, perhaps you will consider the testimonials of colonic cleansers, who claim their weight loss is a result of cleaning the fecal matter out of their colons. Not burning more calories than they take in -the only proven method of weight loss- but by cleaning their asses.
The thing that all these different types of testimonials have in common is volume. Quantity. There's no quality involved. No empirical evidence. Nothing that can be tested or reproduced.
It is the same with Greer's scam. His push is for the hyperbole not the evidence. His renting of the ballroom of the National Press Club demonstrated that believers spend money to make it. Look at any BFC (Big Fuckin' Church) in most any suburban community and this point is proven again. Filling the ballroom with 100+ old white guys with gray hair talking about aerial anomalies proved, unequiviqably, that there are people who believe in UFOs. Little else was demonstrated.
As a "testimonial" of sorts about Greer himself, read this short article about Greer's delusions. If that isn't enough, read or listen to the campfire tale that SGT Clifford Stone tells in the disclosure document. Delusional.
I simply must wonder why the aliens seem to present themselves so prominently to one demographic over others. Barney Hill notwithstanding, there are so few African Americans, Hispanics, or Native Americans who come forward about their alien visitation experiences. There are relatively few accounts from women as well, though there are some notable cases.
The anthropologist in me recognizes that these are cultural divides and thus looks for cultural explanations where empirical ones that support the believer hypothesis are absent.
The anthropologist in me recognizes that these are cultural divides and thus looks for cultural explanations where empirical ones that support the believer hypothesis are absent.
heliocentric
Registered Senior Member
Ophiolite said:
Well honed rhetorical devices? i think youre setting new standards in self-delusion. You could have made a far better better post by discussing the body of work itself and your opinions on it rather than wasting your own time on thinly-veiled inflammatory remarks.
Im pretty sure at this point youre just trolling, if you believe debating is a two way battle in which people put each other 'in their place' then i think our ideas of debating probably arnt compatible. But i'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now, if you want to prove that youre genuinley interested in conversing about this then...
Critically assess the disclourse project, what are it merits? where are the pitfalls? Simply attacking someones perceived lack of formal education just doesnt cut it if you want a serious debate, you need to tell me what you think about the work itself!
And to address the one real remark in your post, no it is quite reasonable for Greer to charge for access to his work, my point was i can well understand how people percieve him as being disingenuous in his cause when hes charging people money for information which he believes should be public.
It doesnt mean hes a con-man as i pointed out, but it doesnt make him look good either, and the fact that his body of work comes at a price is the one consistant point i see him being attacked on. I think the way forward would be to make the core information in his disclosure project publicly available while turning his attention towards giving talks/seminars as a means of income and prehaps even securing private funding.
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I don't subscribe to your so-called "anti-materialist" mumbo-jumbo. You've not demonstrated that there is any conspiracy or danger to society in general. All you've done to date is bitch and moan about others who have "things" and rely on them from a perspective from someone who apparently hasn't any "things" beyond his primitive webtv.
The "anti-materialist" nonsense is clearly a cop-out argument by a believer who is pissed that there are those that dare question his/her beliefs. If a skeptic says, "show me the empirical evidence," the cop-out argument responds with, "you're a materialist and ignore other ways of 'knowing'." Never does the so-called "anti-materialist" suggest what these "other ways of knowing" are with any success.
I'm reminded very strongly of the anti-science argument of "scientism" presented by religious nutters who are offended that science dare question how H. sapiens developed as a species. They claim that there are "science extremists" who secretely subscribe to naturalistic views of world that leave no room for the supernatural. The fallacy of that argument is that it is science that rejects the supernatural since it cannot be tested and is therefore invalid as a hypothesis however possible it might be.
But thank you for ranking me as "number 1." From your bent, drug induced perspective on the universe, I take that as a sincere compliment.
The "anti-materialist" nonsense is clearly a cop-out argument by a believer who is pissed that there are those that dare question his/her beliefs. If a skeptic says, "show me the empirical evidence," the cop-out argument responds with, "you're a materialist and ignore other ways of 'knowing'." Never does the so-called "anti-materialist" suggest what these "other ways of knowing" are with any success.
I'm reminded very strongly of the anti-science argument of "scientism" presented by religious nutters who are offended that science dare question how H. sapiens developed as a species. They claim that there are "science extremists" who secretely subscribe to naturalistic views of world that leave no room for the supernatural. The fallacy of that argument is that it is science that rejects the supernatural since it cannot be tested and is therefore invalid as a hypothesis however possible it might be.
But thank you for ranking me as "number 1." From your bent, drug induced perspective on the universe, I take that as a sincere compliment.
As usual, I'm not going to be arsed to read whatever duendy can't properly quote. If he can't accomplish such a simple task on his webtv, he should not bother with the internet at all. But yes, I'm a happy person.