The actual question - "Why don't you kill yourself?"

[draqon]

Don't be silly. If I do that how can I help others ?

that will be help itself.

 

[Myles]

I'll make you a priority case

 

[shorty_37]

STOP fighting I have enough bags for everyone...

 

[Myles]

If you think you can fob me off with Wallmart rubbish, ypu've another think coming.

I have a special consignment from Tiffany's

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

lol I do understand the implications but I am not all-knowing.
I think what mostly bothers you is that it doesn't bother me.

No. What bothers me is you do not notice the contradictions in what you do and believe and what you believe and believe. Further that even if determinism is correct to answer the way you did is AS IF you were outside yourself. But you are not.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

but you don't believe in that viewpoint...

You really couldn't see what I was pointing out?
Their beliefs and their reactions to me contradict each other. If they really believed what they claim to believe they would not bother reacting to me the way they did.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

And physical process are mediated by what, exactly ?

I was pointing out the absurdity of Enmos' determinism as revealed in this quote:

It is determined that you feel like you do now, but there is nothing stopping you from shutting up.

After both of you talked about how your genes prevented your suicides AND he is now talking about how 'what I know' is determined' he somehow thought I was free to 'stop talking' as if this act was not guided by genes, and environment and totally determined.

And before you say he was being ironic, when I pointed this out he said

You are defining determinism as you see fit.

Well, gosh. No.

But if anything bothers you about any of this, Myles, my genes made me do it and they are preventing me from being swayed by your arguments.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Maybe.. but there is still something called restraint.

So then I could restrain from eating and not survive, overriding my genes.

Why is my act of speaking restrainable and yet my acts of maintaining my life are not?

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Your genes determine how you react to your environment. Is that so difficult to understand ?

Is it so difficult to understand 1) Enmos' weak understanding of determinism - see his ideas about 'restraint'. 2) the silliness on your part of arguing with my genes.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

How can one avoid talking like a person if one is a person. You'll be telling me next that cows choose to moo. You just don't het it. No doubt you have a special definition of a person.

No, I don't het it.
Do you take every phrase absolutely literally, Myles?
Do you understand what the phrase 'talking like a person' means?
When you say I don't get it, is it some kind of parcel? is it a paycheck?
Ah, I see, you meant that colloquially.
How amazing that I understood that.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Yes, but the answers would have been wrong

Ah, so if I say that I do not commit suicide because I love life and my family and friends
or because I am so curious about what the day might bring

I would be wrong.
I am beginning to feel pity.

 

[Enmos]

No. What bothers me is you do not notice the contradictions in what you do and believe and what you believe and believe. Further that even if determinism is correct to answer the way you did is AS IF you were outside yourself. But you are not.

I do notice what you seem to think of as contradictions.. and just disagree.

 

[Enmos]

So then I could restrain from eating and not survive, overriding my genes.

Why is my act of speaking restrainable and yet my acts of maintaining my life are not?

I would think the urge to survive is somewhat stronger than the urge to talk, don't you ?

What do you think makes a fox chew it's own leg off when it's trapped in a snare ?
Is it because of survival instinct ?
Or because it I loves life and it's family and friends or because it is so curious about what the day might bring ?

You pick..

 

[Cortex_Colossus]

I would think the urge to survive is somewhat stronger than the urge to talk, don't you ?

What do you think makes a fox chew it's own leg off when it's trapped in a snare ?
Is it because of survival instinct ?
Or because it I loves life and it's family and friends or because it is so curious about what the day might bring ?

You pick..

Do you think that higher consciousness negates the primal urge to survive? I think that rubbing my dick is one. Youre an asshole by the way. Just thought you might like to know.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

I would think the urge to survive is somewhat stronger than the urge to talk, don't you ?

What do you think makes a fox chew it's own leg off when it's trapped in a snare ?
Is it because of survival instinct ?
Or because it I loves life and it's family and friends or because it is so curious about what the day might bring ?

You pick..

So I have free will in relation to some urges?
And the choices I make about what urges to suppress are not governed by my genes? For example, the fox overriding his usual urge not to cause himself pain, that act would be governed by his genes in your worldview yes?
So my urge to talk and my lack of an urge to restrain it are both genetic, yes?


Do you really not see how what you said does not fit with determinism or are you just being stubborn?

I mean let's go back to where this line started. You told me that what I think I know is governed by my genes, but I could restrain myself from talking about it.

Anyone would assume that you are saying I can't control the former, which is genetic, but I can control the latter, which is not. But the fact is my desire to restrain myself would be genetic also, in your worldview. The whole damn thing is genetic, right.

 

[Enmos]

Do you think that higher consciousness negates the primal urge to survive? I think that rubbing my dick is one. Youre an asshole by the way. Just thought you might like to know.

Now I'm the asshole ?
I take it you haven't read this thread ?
All I did was say that our genes provide us with survival instinct. Not much later Sowhat came in here guns blazing, and with his attitude.

Besides I'm not the one calling people names here, you are.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

I do notice what you seem to think of as contradictions.. and just disagree.

No, you don't. You do not get how 'restraint' and the choice to use it would also be controlled by genes. For example.

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Not much later Sowhat came in here guns blazing, and with his attitude.

An attitude that would be created by my genes. Right?
Just like your attitude, sense that you are right and your reactions to me are caused by your genes.

 

[Enmos]

So I have free will in relation to some urges?
And the choices I make about what urges to suppress are not governed by my genes? For example, the fox overriding his usual urge not to cause himself pain, that act would be governed by his genes in your worldview yes?

Yes I do. What do you think causes it ?
I want to discuss this in a civil way, or not at all.

So my urge to talk and my lack of an urge to restrain it are both genetic, yes?

At some level, yes I think so.

Do you really not see how what you said does not fit with determinism or are you just being stubborn?

You were the one calling my view deterministic. I adopted it.
Is determinism really that black and white ?

I mean let's go back to where this line started. You told me that what I think I know is governed by my genes, but I could restrain myself from talking about it.

I don't remember telling you that what you think you know is governed by your genes. Can you point out to me where I said that ?

Anyone would assume that you are saying I can't control the former, which is genetic, but I can control the latter, which is not. But the fact is my desire to restrain myself would be genetic also, in your worldview. The whole damn thing is genetic, right.

At some level yes.

 

[Enmos]

No, you don't. You do not get how 'restraint' and the choice to use it would also be controlled by genes. For example.

No, I don't know how exactly it works.