The 600 BCE Awakening...

one_raven

one_raven

God is a Chinese Whisper
Valued Senior Member
600 BCE...

I mentioned this in teh Adam and Eve thread, but it was way off topic, and I would like to explore it further, so I gave it a thread of its own.

Around 600 BCE there was an awakening of man during which mankind started to collectively accept the notion of self determination, and reject the idea of being puppets to the "Gods" of nature.
Zarathustra (627-585 BCE) promulgated the Dualism of Good and Evil,
Lao-Tzu (604-531 BCE) wrote the Tao de Ching,
Confucius (580?-479 BCE) “flaunted his agnosticism”,
Buddha (565-483 BCE) taught a “godless wisdom”,
Xenophanes (550 BCE) criticized Greek polytheism,
Pythagoras (550 BCE) taught sacred geometry and mathematically based science,
Isaiah (550 BCE) taught “the first true monotheism in history”,
Theagenes (525 BCE) “rationalized Homer”, and
Hecataeus (500 BCE) “mocked the Greek myths”.

The Encyclopaedia Britannica says, “The prophets were first and foremost teachers of religion, not of ethics. Their supreme concern was the will of God, rather than the rule of righteousness.” However, in the 6th century, B.C.E. Jeremiah and Ezekiel began to emphasize “individual responsibility and sought to restore to the people a sense of personal relationship with God, which they had lost under the impact of pagan influence.” “This was a time of general national disintegration, when religious and social organizations were rapidly breaking up.”

It only progresses from there...
Thucydides (400), Trial of Socrates (399), Plato’s Academy (387), Aristotle (335), Indian Artha-sastra (politically rationalistic), Zhuangzi (mystical idealism), Shang Yang (legalism), Euclid (geometry)...

In Chinese History, 1000 B.C.E. marks the beginning of the Zhou Dynasty, which emphasized very strongly the Emperor’s “mandate of heaven” and “obedience to Gods”. But beginning in 772 B.C.E. in Southern China (and extending until 481 B.C.E.), the so-called “Springs and Autumns Period” began. This consisted of eight lesser periods, when life and limb were cheap, barbaric, and toward the end, “philosophy became more important than war.” This is when Lao Tzu and Confucius had arrived on the scene.

The pure materialist Carvaka atheists also came onto the scene at this time.

The list goes on and on.

At around 600 BCE mankind had an awakening - people started to preach personal repsonsibility and and start taking an active role in determining their own fate.

What do you think brought this awakening about (if you agree that there was one)?

As a bit of a side note and interesting light to shine in this direction...

I once read that humans starting using fire, all over the world at about the same time.
This was a time, obviously, that there was no mass communication and a small population.
Different tribes around the world did not discuss with each other.
 
your last point reminds of me of Rupert Sheldrake's ideas. He has found animal examples where populations of certain species separated (on islands) learned to use certain tools at the same time. I believe his main example is certain monkeys using rocks on shell food.
 
one_raven said:
600 BCE...
Around 600 BCE there was an awakening of man during which mankind started to collectively accept the notion of self determination, and reject the idea of being puppets to the "Gods" of nature.

At around 600 BCE mankind had an awakening - people started to preach personal repsonsibility and and start taking an active role in determining their own fate.

What do you think brought this awakening about (if you agree that there was one)?
.
Click to expand...

There was certainly a change around this time and it was a move away from nature orientated gods and shamanic type religion . I think in the main it was because of two reasons;

Firstly the development of modern writing techniques was a major factor, which happened around this period, depending on where you were in the world, (a few hundred years before it in China). ‘the written word’ was undoubtedly a catalyst that enabled these types of philosophical and religious thought to be properly expressed, discussed and communicated to others.

Secondly was the fact that more and more people around this time, were moving out of the country and experiencing city living. The rural life, governed by the seasons and forces of nature (whilst still in strong existence) was now balanced with a more stable town life. Whatever the truth of divine or spiritual existence, man’s ability to define it is certainly shaped by his environment.

one_raven said:
As a bit of a side note and interesting light to shine in this direction...

I once read that humans starting using fire, all over the world at about the same time.
This was a time, obviously, that there was no mass communication and a small population.
Different tribes around the world did not discuss with each other.
Click to expand...

But when you shine this light, it leads me to a possible third reason, which is reincarnation.

If you are willing to subscribe to this theory it could certainly helps explain how fire could arise in the world in this way, it can also explain how modern writing appears in different parts of the world at the same time. It can also be a factor in the changes that occurred at around 600 BC. If there is some type of rebirth occurring whereby some degree of knowledge from previous lives is subconsciously retained, then people working together on certain ideas can have rebirth or reincarnation in different parts of the world therefore slowly helping to disseminate these ideas.

There is also the phenomenon that sometimes occurs whereby people in different parts of the world write nearly the same book or make a very similar film at the same time with no obvious plagiarism, which must have similar causes (whatever they may be) to your fire example.



Lastly I would just like to make a quick point about Pythagoras, which is that he was as equally involved in spiritual / religious work as mathematics (although now famed only for the mathematics);

“Pythagoreanism (from encyclopedia Britannica) :
It originated as a religious brotherhood or an association for the moral reformation of society; brothers were sworn to strict loyalty and secrecy. The brotherhood had much in common with the Orphic communities which sought by rites and abstinence to purify the believer's soul and enable it to escape from the “wheel of birth.” Pythagoreanism held that reality, at its deepest level, is mathematical, that philosophy can be used for spiritual purification, that the soul can rise to union with the divine, and that certain symbols have mystical significance. It was the first important Western system of thought to advocate vegetarianism. The school became extinct in the mid-4th century.”

He seems to have been possibly influenced by Hinduism?
 
I don´t think you can put a date of "awakening", what about the pyramids? Or the ancient bible reference to Enoch, the only person in Genesis, that did not die.

Genesis (5,24):
24 And Enoch walked [in habitual fellowship] with God; and he was not, for God took him [home with Him]."

Also, what about Thot, the egyptian? Also know as Hermes Trismegistus for its greek translation. his time is dated from before 4000 BC, as he was the one that created egyptian writting.

Or what about Isis and Osiris? The beggining of times for the Egyptians, Osiris was obviously a Son of God as well.

We have just been moving in circles.
 
Recently I have begun thinking along more biological/climatological lines, that is to say many of the "coincidental" occurences of human history - such as flood myths - can be attributed to major climate changes, extreme shifts caused most probably by interaction with astronomical objects such as comets or their remnants.

The rise and fall of chinese dynasties follows cometary cycles with peculiar precision.

Fire, for instance, may have been independently discovered out of necessity due to a change in the climate. Once-warm areas were now cold and humans were forced to find alternate means of creating warmth in order to survive. Ecological pressure, the same force which causes distant species to "suddenly" adapt in strikingly similar ways.

My dog has webbed feet, ducks have webbed feet. Both are decent swimmers.

Different kind of webbing, different sort of tissue, same function. Evolution is though of as a gradual process occuring over eons, but in truth this is only one form of evolution. Another form happens in sudden steps, with one generation being strikingly dissimilar to the previous.

Example: AIDS has only been a human virus for twenty years, yet there are already people in parts of Europe and Africa who are resistant to it. Whether they carry it or not I'm not sure, but it doesn't affect them as far as I know.

This is all biology, cosmology and ecology. Much more likely influences than something metaphysical such as reincarnation. Of course reincarnation is often described in terms that sound a lot like the carbon cycle or the water cycle, etc. More ecology. This atom that is a part of my nose was once a part of a tree, and once a part of a dinosaur and so on. Reincarnation, only biologically plausible.

A more divergent hypothesis I've been thinking about is the possibility that perhaps population trends are wired into our DNA, that "junk" DNA may code for adaptations like wiggling your ears, and if that becomes beneficial than a population or community can seemingly evolve much more quickly that would traditionally be possible.

Example: human sexual maturity. In ancient times, around the time of Jesus, it was common for a Jew to be married by age twelve. That is working in a trade, having sex and producing offspring. The Bar Mitzvah was a coming of age, and at the time I imagine it had a lot more crucial role to play in society, more than simply a traditional role, but actually a survival role. See, it was rare to live to see forty, so it made sense for the population (and the individuals within it) to reproduce as early and often as possible.

Today, as life expectancies approach the 90's and professional and economic stability is pushed further and further into the twenties, even into the mid-thirties for many, reproductive viability becomes a survival issue.

Perhaps not coincidentally we are finding that many of our youth are reaching sexual maturity at a later age, perhaps 13, 14, even 18 (rare, but some do...) Others of course reach it at age 9 or 10, but it would be compelling to see a breakdown of that bell curve and how it has changed over the centuries.

Now it is much more beneficial for us to wait because we can't survive as a society with everyone having children at 15. It takes far too long to establish residence, to get trained in our increasingly complex trades and professions. I predict that menopause will probably drift further into the fifties or even into the early sixties eventually - in a thousand years perhaps.

This microevolution will probably occur as a result of everything I have mentioned above, but instead of ecological pressure we're dealing with economic pressure and social pressure. 30 is the new 20 they say, and 20 may be the new 10 before we know it.

Today we are not considered truly adult until we're almost 30. A 22 year-old has the potential and the intelligence, even the education of his elders but lacks experience. They are more apt to be addicted to drugs, embark on risky business ventures and so on - that's bad for a family.

But who do you know who is married with children at 13?

Speciation (like a saber tooth turning into a Bengal tiger) is a long, slow process, but genetic changes occur at a constant rate, and we can only assume these occur at a much greater rate when a high degree of pressure is placed on a population.

And as I said earlier, perhaps "junk" DNA (the Introns) codes for social behavior and even assists with the timing of gene expression, so growing a beard may occur at a more advanced age than it previously did. I'm proposing a regulatory mechanism that operates on and is influenced by the population.
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
I don´t think you can put a date of "awakening", what about the pyramids?

Also, what about Thot, the egyptian? Also know as Hermes Trismegistus for its greek translation. his time is dated from before 4000 BC, as he was the one that created egyptian writting.

Or what about Isis and Osiris? The beggining of times for the Egyptians, Osiris was obviously a Son of God as well.

We have just been moving in circles.
Click to expand...

There have obviously been numerous phases in history when great advances have been made or great and influential people have lived. But what is under discussion is one particular phase at around 600BC that marked a change from shamanic type religion centered around nature to more philosophical, monotheistic or pantheistic type religions that are most common today. Isis, Horus etc - the Egyptian gods were still very much polytheistic nature type gods i.e. Isis water god, Horus Sun god.

I think one of the most important links in this transition has not yet been mentioned, which is the Upanishads. Where we find an array of gods (some linked with nature, others not), but the constant theme is that all these gods, and indeed all beings, have the all pervasive Brahman as their inner self – one god. These date in written from between 700BC to 1000BC but could be older by oral tradition. Again the ability to have written materials an important factor.

The Bhagavad Gita was also believed to be written 500-600BC


I too share your doubt that it should be called an awakening, as you say, humanities awakening has been much more gradual than that and is still ongoing today.



Wisdom_Seeker said:
Or the ancient bible reference to Enoch, the only person in Genesis, that did not die. .
Genesis (5,24):
24 And Enoch walked [in habitual fellowship] with God; and he was not, for God took him [home with Him]." .
Click to expand...

There was also Elijah (although not in Genesis)

“As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.” 2 Kings 2:11
 
On what do you base your assumption that fire began to be widely used only 600BCE? My guess is that fire had been used for thousands of years before that.
 
tablariddim said:
On what do you base your assumption that fire began to be widely used only 600BCE? My guess is that fire had been used for thousands of years before that.
Click to expand...

Wot........ noone said that or even slightly hinted at it.......... read the thread again :bugeye:
 
Grantywanty said:
your last point reminds of me of Rupert Sheldrake's ideas. He has found animal examples where populations of certain species separated (on islands) learned to use certain tools at the same time. I believe his main example is certain monkeys using rocks on shell food.
Click to expand...

Sheldrake was the first thing that popped into my mind when I heard this as well.
I disagree with his interpretation of his research (morphogenic fields, and all that) but I am endlessly fascinated by what he is finding.
 
Ok, assuming that the awakening of humanity did occured as you said, it could be due to a huge amount of possible scenarios.

I understand that when a person becomes "Enlightened", fire emmanates from him. This is not a normal fire, as we know it, it is a sacred fire, a sacred light.

Once a person is "on fire", he can create a "forrest fire" with manking, a massive awakening, due to 1 and only source, 1 little flame, that enlightened the whole forrest.

Like any enlightened person that have walked through this Earth, they teach others to do so, and it becomes a chain reaction.

I wonder who was the first enlightened person.... Zarathustra??

That is my perspective from this.
 
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