Texas/Arizona Minutemen?

[Neildo]

I think one of the best ideas that I've ever heard is that we have an open hunting season on illegal immigrants, say, within five miles of the border. My guess is that there'd be a lot, A LOT, less illegal border crossings .....except at very damned well guarded LEGAL crossing points.

Well, since you love to go by LAW, let's be like the Brits. There's still a law where on Sundays, you can still legally kill a Scotsman with a longbow (or something to that effect). I wonder if there's any laws that exist in the southern states back in the wild west days that permitted the killing of Mexicans or Indians on certain days.

- N

 

[spidergoat]

Republicans created the illegal immigration problem by their compaign to destroy labor unions, and labor laws here. If workers were organized, then illegals could never work here, and they wouldn't come over the border.

There would still be the problem of bad guys coming over, though.

So the congress just believes anything that the President tells them?

They had access to the same intelligence as the administration.

No one has access to the same intelligence as the administration. The congress did not hear of the CIA's doubts on the cherry-picked information the administration chose to share. For instance, that the Niger documents showing Iraq's alleged attempt to buy uranium were forgeries. Or, that the administration depended on one unreliable source for most of their info., a guy codenamed "curveball", who the Germans considered a nutcase.

The members of congress trust, to some extent, the office of the president to be truthfull in matters pertaining to war, since they have no way of verifiying the information.

President Bush can't even get a new judge to the Supreme Court without a major, major fight ...if at all.

The latest info is that Roberts will be confirmed easily.

 

[Cottontop3000]

Yes, believe it or not, Spidergoat is 100% correct about why illegals are still ALLOWED and possibly even ENCOURAGED to cross the borders. Cheap labor for BIG BUSINESS, which is backed mainly by REPUBLICANS but also by some Democrats. Repubs aren't big government in some senses, but they are definitely pro-big business. That's where the money is, and thus the power. Therefore, they want and need these illegals to come in and replace well-paid American workers, in order to make more money and get more power. Same reason millions and millions of jobs are being "out-sourced" to India and China, as well as other places like Mexico. Cheap labor, almost slave-labor, no unions, etc. So, the problem is not really the illegals coming across the border, it is our corrupt politicians, who could not "not" tell a lie even if they wanted to. Just watch any interview with any of our politicians and OBSERVE the questions asked and the answers given. Maybe not always lies, but NEVER the whole truth. Arrogance and corruption at it's finest. And reporters are in bed with them too, because they have little real power as reporters any more, so they have to stay on the side of the powerful or they will get canned.

That bitch in jell right now who wouldn't reveal her source (Karl Rove) is being taken care of and will be taken care of once she has served enough time in jail. Just for show.

Fuck Bush, Rove, CHENEY, Rice, McClellan, Frist, Delay, Rehnquist, that douche-bag at Defense (don't want to say his name), and all the powerful fucks behind them in the shadows. They are all corrupt, liars, hypocrites and total scum.

Peace.

 

[crazy151drinker]

I tell you what, why dont you stop buying cheap vegtables and fruit. Demand that they raise the prices so some union guy can make $20/hour (with benfiits too) picking grapes.

All these cheap wages you complain about=Cheap food that you gladly pay for

It is not about BIG BUSINESS. You could at least narrow down the catagories to Agriculture based businesses as they are the ones that use the majority of illegal labor.

You say its about the Republicans?? Which state has the highest amount of illegals?? CALIFORNIA- which is NOT a rebulican state. Who tried to give Illegals drivers license's? The DEMOCRATS. Any attempt to curb illegal immigration in California is BLASTED by those who live in Southern California (Who are DEMOCRATS).

 

[spidergoat]

You could raise the price on vegies, but if all American workers were justly compensated, then we could all afford it. In fact it was the increase in the minimum wage that created the middle class here, when some people claimed it would drive companies out of business.

 

[Cottontop3000]

I tell you what, why dont you stop buying cheap vegtables and fruit. Demand that they raise the prices so some union guy can make $20/hour (with benfiits too) picking grapes.

All these cheap wages you complain about=Cheap food that you gladly pay for

You, my friend, are one of the deluded I mentioned. How can you possibly say that anything, especially food, is cheap? Never been higher relative to the inflation rate.

It is not about BIG BUSINESS. You could at least narrow down the catagories to Agriculture based businesses as they are the ones that use the majority of illegal labor.

You must be a die-hard republican who, again, is deluded by what you here on CNN or FOX news, or read in the papers. You probably think all those are liberal-biased too. Illegals, and imports from India and China, do much more than pick oranges. So do the people that Wal-mart, Hewlett Packard, GE, etc. hire cheaply overseas.

You say its about the Republicans?? Which state has the highest amount of illegals?? CALIFORNIA- which is NOT a rebulican state. Who tried to give Illegals drivers license's? The DEMOCRATS. Any attempt to curb illegal immigration in California is BLASTED by those who live in Southern California (Who are DEMOCRATS).

Yes, California, and Republicans, are doing a grandiose job of brainwashing and misleading you and the rest of the sheep in America.

 

[Neildo]

Yes, believe it or not, Spidergoat is 100% correct about why illegals are still ALLOWED and possibly even ENCOURAGED to cross the borders. Cheap labor for BIG BUSINESS, which is backed mainly by REPUBLICANS but also by some Democrats. Repubs aren't big government in some senses, but they are definitely pro-big business. That's where the money is, and thus the power. Therefore, they want and need these illegals to come in and replace well-paid American workers, in order to make more money and get more power. Same reason millions and millions of jobs are being "out-sourced" to India and China, as well as other places like Mexico. Cheap labor, almost slave-labor, no unions, etc. So, the problem is not really the illegals coming across the border, it is our corrupt politicians, who could not "not" tell a lie even if they wanted to. Just watch any interview with any of our politicians and OBSERVE the questions asked and the answers given. Maybe not always lies, but NEVER the whole truth. Arrogance and corruption at it's finest. And reporters are in bed with them too, because they have little real power as reporters any more, so they have to stay on the side of the powerful or they will get canned.

Who tried to give Illegals drivers license's? The DEMOCRATS.

Well I admit, what I'm about to say is a lil conspiracy theory that ties into the above quote. But you ask who was the one to give illegal immigrants drivers licences? Well, who was the one to give illegal immigrants work passes? Republicans.

Now for the conspiracy part about big business, republicans, and the like. As the above person mentioned, republicans love immigrants because it results in lower pay so they make more money. Isn't it kinda funny that Bush's immigrant pass came around the same time as the talk of a draft for Iran? What another nice, quick way for big business republicans to make tons of money. While all us high pay wanting, legal citizens of American are drafted (since illegals can't join the military), we get one hell of a population decrease of greedy white people as a result of the insane Iran war. But while all the white people are off dying and fighting in that crazy war, all of a sudden we get a surge of illegal immigrants carrying their job passes to pick up the work that aren't able to be done due to everyone else being in the war. So now a huge chunk of our work force is replaced with cheap labor resulting in a sky-high increase of profits for big business. And even greater due to more factory jobs being created by the war which is easy work, and usually the type of work, that illegal immigrants do. Nice way to get rid of the middle class, eh?

So hey, who knows. That's my lil conspiracy theory made up on the spot.

- N

 

[crazy151drinker]

"You, my friend, are one of the deluded I mentioned. How can you possibly say that anything, especially food, is cheap? Never been higher relative to the inflation rate."

Ok. You think food is expensive. So how much more is it going to cost when the labor cost to produce it goes up 500%??

"You could raise the price on vegies, but if all American workers were justly compensated, then we could all afford it"

And how would you pay the salaries for all of these 'justly compensated' workers? Buy rising prices of course which is called ahem, ahem, inflation. So now your justly compensated workers still cannot afford it.

Everytime the minimum wage goes up, prices go up to. For everyone to get paid the same you need communism, which also doesnt work. Hate to break it to you, but there will always be poor people in Capitalism. And in Communism, EVERYONE is poor.

 

[Cottontop3000]

"You, my friend, are one of the deluded I mentioned. How can you possibly say that anything, especially food, is cheap? Never been higher relative to the inflation rate."

Ok. You think food is expensive. So how much more is it going to cost when the labor cost to produce it goes up 500%??

Could be none if the fat rich fucks at the top gave a shit about anybody but themselves and their own pocketbooks. I take it you also still believe that we live in a "fair" capitalist economic system with no price-fixing and/or gouging?

 

[Clockwood]

I like these 'rich fat fucks', as you call them. The more they live to excess, the more the rest of us benifit. Everything they buy has to be manufactured somewhere and then it has to be maintained. They have to hire gardeners and caddies and maids and tailors and everything under the sun. They are the ones who pay most of the taxes. They are the ones who have the capital to build factories and corporations and everything else.

Everything they do feeds the rest of us.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

They must follow the law like any other citizen of the USA ...no more, no less.

though I agree, I have several problems with people taking things in their hands;
for Vigilantes:
1) what are their motivations?
racist or just sick & tired of the gov doing nothing but yakking

2) what would they do, when confronted by a dangerous situation? shoot first, ask questions later? run?

3) will they work to change US culture & employer pressures to hire the cheapest? problem as I see it is;
we are so focused on deals, we buy the cheapest, creating pressures to downsize, Wal-Martize, send jobs offshore
we have so many people on welfare, that the low pay will not get them off the sofa to fill the ranks of waiters, gardeners, chefs, maids, nannies, why should they as long as we feed them?
because no one is held accountable, the employers that cheat & use illegal help, make more profit, the workers get the short end,
witness California & Prop 72 that was just defeated. it would have forced all employers of over so many employees, to give their part-timers some health care. since the good people of California decided that it was not right for Wal-Mart to be forced to pay for health care for their part-time employees, that leaves them to use Medicare, Medi-Cal when emergencies happen, we all pay then.
I assume that people are more interested in deals, than keeping employers fair. I've worked for many employers that would not let you get over 32 hrs per week, so that they didn't have to get health care for us.

Also, think of Mexicans as on-shore out-sourcing, & Indians & Chinese as off-shore out-sourcing. Don’t like that, stop buying just the cheapest, look for real “Made in the US” stuff & buy it. Harangue your politicians to enact laws to eliminate welfare, subsidies, loopholes & unfair NAFTA, MFN, GATT/WTO or other corporate freebies.

You want to stop Mexicans at the border, send anyone that hires illegals to 20 years hard time, confiscation of assets, use RICO, no mercy, no sob stories, just hard time, should solve the problem post-haste. And stop crying if prices go higher.

 

[crazy151drinker]

Ok, lets say im a rich fat fuck Millionare. I have $1,000,000 to spend on groceries. That sounds like I can help alot of people out. But thats only $100 for 1,000 people. Thats really not alot of groceries for a family of 4. So now im a broke fat fuck and the 1,000 people are still hungry. Instead of me spending that 1,000,000 on groceries, I should instead start a business so I can make more money and at the same time HIRE people so they can buy their own damn groceries.

Bitch about the fat fuck millionares here, but we still have one of the highest standards of living. When was the last time millions of Americans starved to death?
Please go to some 3rd world country and get a reality check.

 

[crazy151drinker]

"witness California & Prop 72 that was just defeated. it would have forced all employers of over so many employees, to give their part-timers some health care. since the good people of California decided that it was not right for Wal-Mart to be forced to pay for health care for their part-time employees, that leaves them to use Medicare, Medi-Cal when emergencies happen, we all pay then.
I assume that people are more interested in deals, than keeping employers fair. I've worked for many employers that would not let you get over 32 hrs per week, so that they didn't have to get health care for us. "

The reason for this is that Heatlh Care costs in California are outragous. Look at the costs of Workers comp and Health insurance in Neveda and you will see why many businesses are leaving California. Its just too damn expensive to do business here. It is not a simple case of "businesses here are a bunch of cheap asses". Blame the insurance industry. Blame the Workers Comp scams. Blame the Illegals who get free health care and stick it to the rest of us. Blame environmental costs. There are many many reasons why....

 

[Cottontop3000]

Ok, lets say im a rich fat fuck Millionare. I have $1,000,000 to spend on groceries. That sounds like I can help alot of people out. But thats only $100 for 1,000 people. Thats really not alot of groceries for a family of 4. So now im a broke fat fuck and the 1,000 people are still hungry. Instead of me spending that 1,000,000 on groceries, I should instead start a business so I can make more money and at the same time HIRE people so they can buy their own damn groceries.

Bitch about the fat fuck millionares here, but we still have one of the highest standards of living. When was the last time millions of Americans starved to death?
Please go to some 3rd world country and get a reality check.

I've spent a lot of time in third world countries, for your information, and to me it sounds like you need the reality check. You make two assumptions here. One, that I am poor because I am too dumb to know better. The second comes in a minute.

First of all, if you take $1,000,000 and you divide it by a 1,000 people, what do you get? Need a remedial math class as well?

Second, you operate under another assumption and that is that those thousand people are morons. Many of them could probably do great things with a thousand dollars, if given the chance. Others might buy groceries, or a new tv, etc. Others might invest or save it. Regardless, whether they spend that $1,000 on one of the above or the other, doesn't matter, it will go a long way towards mended the already shitty relations between the rich and the poor. It will also, most likely, end up right back in the pockets of the rich anyway. How could it not, now that so much is owned by so few?

By the way, I'm not necessarily talking about millionaires. Millionaires are a dime a dozen nowadays. I'm talking about the billionaires who do nothing with their money but make more and more money with it. Who put it to no good use. Who play the stock market as if it were a slot machine. Who wish the peasants would shut up and leave them alone. Who employ cheap slave labor overseas and here in America so that they can squeeze every last penny out of us poor and disenfranchised. Who use people as if they were tools, and when the tool breaks, throw it aside and get a new one.

Why don't you go back to your 151 and get a little crazier. Moron.

 

[crazy151drinker]

so its a thousands buck a person.............. lol
Once again you point out how those families will just spend the money and its GONE. Wereas I propesed that that money would be better spent starting a new business so there would be continous income. That whole teach a man how to fish and he can feed himself thing...

Bitch as much as you want about the Waltons but they have provided Millions of Americans with cheap products and are the largest private employers. At the sacrafice of American jobs in the production sector? Maybe. But once again, if it bothered Americans that much maybe they would pay more money at another store? But they dont.

Well since you have been to 3rd world countries please enlighten us how their standard of living is compared to the U.S.?? I know many poor Americans but they have running water and sewage something most in a 3rd world country cannot claim. I know that raw sewage isnt running down my street. So once again, complain all you want about the Billionares and every other rich person, but these people once again provide the jobs and products that you want. Dont like it? Move to Africa where there are no Billionares.

"Who employ cheap slave labor overseas and here in America so that they can squeeze every last penny out of us poor and disenfranchised. "

And once again, its this cheap labor that lets you get your cheap ass walmart products. This cheap labor INCREASES your spending power. I take it you buy nothing but American products??

 

[Cottontop3000]

so its a thousands buck a person.............. lol

Yeah, it's so fucking funny.

Once again you point out how those families will just spend the money and its GONE. Wereas I propesed that that money would be better spent starting a new business so there would be continous income. That whole teach a man how to fish and he can feed himself thing...

You sound religious too, to boot. True?

Bitch as much as you want about the Waltons but they have provided Millions of Americans with cheap products and are the largest private employers. At the sacrafice of American jobs in the production sector? Maybe. But once again, if it bothered Americans that much maybe they would pay more money at another store? But they dont.

Some do when it doesn't cost more to go to the next biggest city and spend more on gas than they can afford to get there because Wal-Mart is the only choice in most small cities.

Well since you have been to 3rd world countries please enlighten us how their standard of living is compared to the U.S.?? I know many poor Americans but they have running water and sewage something most in a 3rd world country cannot claim. I know that raw sewage isnt running down my street.

Let's take Somalia, for instance. One of our pet projects in the 90's. I was there in '93 for almost 6 months. Should give you a clue about my background. People, almost starved to death, even with the aid we were giving, begged for food and water. Lived in little shacks made of tumbleweeds and old mortar blocks from old russian tank factories. Were so desperate that they would step in front of a 5-ton truck moving at 35-40 mph to take the hit, hoping it would get their families some compensation. (Precursor to suicide bombers perhaps?)

Nonetheless, just because American poor may have a little better conditions, and I'm not saying they do all the time, everything is relative. The greatest pain is physical, sure, but don't underestimate the affect that mental anguish has on a person. Everything is relative.

So once again, complain all you want about the Billionares and every other rich person, but these people once again provide the jobs and products that you want.

Increasingly less and less.

Dont like it? Move to Africa where there are no Billionares.

Think there are none in Africa? Check again dumb-ass.

And once again, its this cheap labor that lets you get your cheap ass walmart products. This cheap labor INCREASES your spending power. I take it you buy nothing but American products??

I don't need the INCREASED spending power, you typical American sheep! You make another assumption here, and that is that I buy into your dumb-ass point of view. You think that all of us, like yourself, are only concerned about ourselves. I live without things that people like you consider the norm, like air conditioning in 90-115+ degree F weather for months at a time, because I am tired of being like you idiots. I could spend the money on it, but I am tired of being treated like I need it. I also live on less than $1,000 a month. How much do you live on?

 

[crazy151drinker]

Ahhh good o'l Somalia...
And why are Somalies poor?? is it do to Capitalism?? Walmart?? Or would it happen to be shit bag Warlords??

If you want to live in 100+ degrees with no AC go for it! Its America! Do what you want!
If living in 100+ degrees when you have the ability to live in AC some how makes you think that your are some sort of Ghandi smarti-pants then go right ahead. More power to you. I would say youre a dumbass for sweating your balls off. But hey, what the hell do I know about heat? Its only 115+ out here and im on a tank 24-7. But shit, I guess I better put that in work request for an AC unit.

So just to help you out, I did a little checking on African Billionaires:
3. That right! A whopping 3! But hey youre right they are Billionaires! But wait up...
hold on....
OH! They are all WHITE and are from SOUTH AFRICA! One lives in England! Well sure as shit, that represents AFrica! LOL

So yeah, unless you move to South Africa, there are still no Billionaires... have you packed yet??

 

[crazy151drinker]

And dont lecture me about how im some big consumer, I dont even own a TV so blow it out your ass.

 

[Cottontop3000]

And dont lecture me about how im some big consumer, I dont even own a TV so blow it out your ass.

You wouldn't if you were on a tank 24/7, now would you? Moron.

 

[Clockwood]

Cottontop: Sure you would. Many, if not most, servicemen have homes and families stateside even while they are in the ass end of the world getting shot at. They don't just liquidate everything when they go off to do their duty. Moron.