Texas/Arizona Minutemen?

[Baron Max]

But, if there were groups who took a workshop, got guidance from boarder patrol officers, did not carrry guns and were instructed not to phyically interact with suspects but instead radio it in that might be a workable compromise.

You seem to think that a radio call would bring Border Patrol agents instantly. The border is over 2,000 miles long and the few agents that we have are already on patrol in other areas. They can't just drop everything and run 1,000 miles at the drop of a hat!

The rest of your post implies that you want fully trained and lisenced patrol agents, but you don't want to pay them! That's not very nice, is it?

And besides, the Minutemen DO get some training and most of them are lisenced to carry concealed weapons in the state ...thus implying more training.

...that would change of a bunch of beer drinking gun tooting bubbas started patroling the boarder and "kicking tail".

What doo-gooder, liberal extremist propoganda have you been reading? These men and women are simply volunteering their time and energy to help patrol the border ...with no pay and no recognition. They aren't "gun-tottin' bubbas", they're family men and women, homeowners with children and jobs just like the rest of us.

If you know anything about this, you know that the Border Patrol simply can NOT adequately patrol the miles and miles of open border. They simply don't have enough men. The volunteers help alleviate much of that problem. And it costs the taxpayers nothing. I don't see how anyone can complain ...other than throwing out such radical talk as "gun-tottin' bubbas" ....which is pure bullshit.

Baron Max

 

[spidergoat]

I'm against these minutemen as well as neighborhood watchers, I give them the finger whenever they snoop past my apartment.

I think the motive behind the minutemen is to make the government's job obsolete because they have wacky conservative ideas about it. This is the government's job, this is why I pay taxes- to have professionals dealing with law enforcement. Where is the National Guard?

Oh, right, getting blown to bits in Iraq.

 

[Clockwood]

No governmental power can do anything of any value in sealing our leaky borders. It would be political suicide. Don't expect the army or the national guard or even the police to do jack squat.

While I think these people are nuts, I am fine with them running around... provided they don't get too triggerhappy. If it can scare the brains out of potential immagrents to the point that they give up hopes of crossing the border, all the better. These volunteers are really just normal people who want to fix a major problem the only way they can think of.

Anyway, its still better than the next suggestion on the list: Lotsa lottsa landmines.

Its better than the next idea on the list

 

[Baron Max]

This is the government's job, this is why I pay taxes- to have professionals dealing with law enforcement.

So would you be willing to pay that much more for the thousands of Border Patrol agents to stem the flow of illegal immigration? Most people would not, even while decrying the illegal crossings!

Where is the National Guard?

The army (military) is NOT permitted to function as national police ...it's against the law!

Now if we could just rename the illegal crossings as an "invasion" of foreign troops, we could use the National Guard. But until then, they aren't permitted that role (except in emergencies of some kind?).

Baron Max

 

[spidergoat]

So would you be willing to pay that much more for the thousands of Border Patrol agents to stem the flow of illegal immigration? Most people would not, even while decrying the illegal crossings!

Soooo, now our national security is negotiable? I wouldn't have agreed to pay a jillion dollars a day in Iraq, but at least this is real homeland security. Build a fence like the Israelis.

Just admit the cons don't want homeland security, they want insecurity. ...And they want the hispanic vote.

 

[Clockwood]

Well, yes, they want the hispanic vote. It can make or break an election much of the time so no sane man wants to alienate it. All the good intentions in the world don't mean a damn thing if you can't stay in office. As for the fence idea, as Baron stated, its illegal.

 

[Baron Max]

Soooo, now our national security is negotiable? I wouldn't have agreed to pay a jillion dollars a day in Iraq, but at least this is real homeland security.

Well, in our system of government, you DID agree to pay for the war in Iraq ...the congress, YOUR representatives, voted to go to war.

The same is true for any additional money for border patrol and security ...the congress needs to allocate the necessary money for it ...YOUR representatives must approve it (and at the present time, they don't ...but they're willing to bitch and moan about illegal immigration!).

But now, with the Minutemen, we have a way of helping to stem the illegal immigration WITHOUT using any tax dollars ...AND... it appears to be working in parts of Arizona and New Mexico. But yet some people complain? Why?

As to the fence ....can you imagine the cost of building a fence 2,000 miles long in such remote areas as that? Where does the money come from?

Baron Max

 

[spidergoat]

The army (military) is NOT permitted to function as national police ...it's against the law!

Yes, but that doesn't apply to the National Guard. They are called out sometimes for domestic issues, like shooting uppity hippies or keepin' them coloreds from integratin'.

I don't think the idea of a better fence is illegal. We can keep the cost down by hiring mexicans to build it, thus killing two birds with one stone.

 

[Baron Max]

Yes, but that doesn't apply to the National Guard. They are called out sometimes for domestic issues, like shooting uppity hippies or keepin' them coloreds from integratin'.

That would be called a "National Emergency", not an on-going police effort! There's a big, big difference.

We can keep the cost down by hiring mexicans to build it, thus killing two birds with one stone.

Huh? And thus take away all of those jobs from American citizens? Ain't that what the fuck this is all about in the first place????? ...LOL!

Baron Max

 

[spidergoat]

No, it's not about jobs. We can stop sending manufacturing jobs to China for one thing. In fact, all western countries (and Japan) need immigration to keep their economies going. I'm more worried about terrorists.

I think a war qualifies as a national emergency.

 

[Baron Max]

I'm more worried about terrorists.

And yet you don't want the Minutemen to help? Free of charge? No cost to you, the taxpayers, the government or anyone else not directly involved? Why?

And if you're worried about terrorists bombing our cities and killing thousands, then if the Minutemen "accidently" kill a few renegade illegals, you're gonna' be all pissed off about it? Why?

I think a war qualifies as a national emergency.

What war? Did we finally declare war on the Mexicans?

Baron Max

 

[spidergoat]

The war on terrorism? Remember that? Terrorists can enter through the Mexican border as easily as Mexicans do.


If they don't break the law, there is little reason to prohibit citizens from doing this, but it's a symptom of a greater problem. I also doubt their motivations are sincere.

 

[Baron Max]

The war on terrorism? Remember that? Terrorists can enter through the Mexican border as easily as Mexicans do.

The "war" on terror is not a declared war, for god's sake!! The war on terror is a news media blitz or somesuch bullshit.

If they don't break the law, there is little reason to prohibit citizens from doing this, but it's a symptom of a greater problem.

Well, there are some laws that could/might be enforced to keep the Minutemen from operating ...tho' no one wants to do it (and I'm not going to tell you what it is!!).

And what "symptom of a greater problem"? What does that mean?

I also doubt their motivations are sincere.

So, ...without any evidence, without any proof, you're going to fight this issue just because you "doubt" the sincerity? Is that the way we should operate on issues?

The Minutemen have been successful in Arizona and New Mexico and have helped the Border Patrol stop and capture and return thousands of illegals ....all without shooting anyone. However, you should also take not the many, many (thousands!) have been detained, arraigned, then set free on their own recognizence to appear in court later. Now what do you think those ILLEGALS are going to do next? ...wait around for their court date? ...or take off into the American interior? Our stupid, idiotic laws (and the doo-gooder liberals!) have thwarted every effort to stem the flow of illegals across the border.

Perhaps we SHOULD just shoot the bastards!!!

Baron Max

 

[spidergoat]

The "war" on terror is not a declared war, for god's sake!! The war on terror is a news media blitz or somesuch bullshit.

OK, it's not declared, so what? The families of 1770 dead US soldiers know all too well there's a war going on. What's the newly created Department of Homeland Security for?

So, ...without any evidence, without any proof, you're going to fight this issue just because you "doubt" the sincerity? Is that the way we should operate on issues?

I'm not fighting it, I'm just suspicious. I'm also dissapointed that shrub isn't doing anything about it, or port security, or train security, or chemical plant security, etc...

 

[Neildo]

I'm all for the Minutemen. They're not being vigilantes, they're being outstanding citizens helping take care of a problem that lacks government manpower. Now if they actually went out, arrested the illegal immigrants, and shipped them back to Mexico themselves, then they would be vigilantes, heh, but they're just helping notify the border patrol of where problems arise. Like someone else said, this is no different than a neighborhood watch.

- N

P.S. I'm not a conservative. Blech!

 

[spidergoat]

No adequate border security, but plenty of tax cuts for the wealthy. That's Bush's plan to dominate the country, keep us afraid and encourage more attacks. Those pigfuckers will hang for this.

(Note to the SS; by hang I mean legitimately charged, tried and convicted of war crimes by the United States government)

 

[Baron Max]

That's Bush's plan to dominate the country, ...

Tell me honestly ....do you really believe such crap as that?

Can you seriously see how the nation is in turmoil and can't agree on any-fuckin'-thing, and yet still believe that one person, even a huge corporation, could hope to "dominate" the USA?

The government can't even keep us from polluting the rivers and lakes. The government can't even keep us from using oil at ever-increasing rates. The government can't control the health insurance company rates. The goverment can't control the growth and crime rates of major cities. The government can't .......................

And after all of that, can you honestly say that anyone or any group can actaully, really, dominate this nation???

Baron Max

 

[spidergoat]

Yup. Their motivation, in my opinion, is to keep the Republican party in power as long as possible, with little regard for our security. I admit, the extent of government power has limits, and controlling every individual isn't necessarily the aim, just maintaining control of all three branches of government. Considering that they can send people to Cuba with no due process, it is a little scary.

 

[Baron Max]

Yup. ....just maintaining control of all three branches of government.

And just how well are they doing that right at this moment? And worse, how well are they going to do that in the weeks to come?

See? You see things that just ain't happening .....and ye're running scared, yelling "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!" ...and nothing is actually even coming down from the sky.

President Bush can't even get a new judge to the Supreme Court without a major, major fight ...if at all. Now please tell me, just how do you consider that as "dominating" the nation????????????????????????????

Baron Max

 

[mikasa11]

And just how well are they doing that right at this moment? And worse, how well are they going to do that in the weeks to come?

I'd say pretty damn good, the best I can ever remember.

President Bush can't even get a new judge to the Supreme Court without a major, major fight ...if at all. Now please tell me, just how do you consider that as "dominating" the nation????????????????????????????

Considering Sandra Day O' Conner was a moderate it doesn't make sense for Bush to hire a far right-winger. I urge Democrats to stand up and fight this even though there's absolutely nothing they can do.

Getting away with treason; 1,800 americans dead in iraq; 10's of thousands iraqi's dead; 300 billion dollars wasted from the Iraq War; Osama still on the run; Our economy ready to collapse; Findings that Bush led the nation into a false war under a false pretense. Just to get started......

And the public doesn't even raise an eyebrow

I'd say that's dominating the nation