Taqiyya, Tu-Quoque & Kitman

[FelixC]

I was unsure why there seemed there was this personal animosity displayed against Muslims, with titles like "Muslims lie"
I know that personally, I have two problems (which may be considered biases),
I feel that Islam is a co-opter of religious history (there is no way that Moses, David or Jesus were Muslim prophets)
& I am weary of its claims as peaceful because of 9-11 (& other events)

so there were a few words that I googled, after seeing them
and I found these sites
http://jihadwatch.org/archives/004628.php
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/index.htm

my questions are
1. how much of this information can be trusted?
2. can Muslims be trusted?
3. what is this "dhimmi" stuff?
4. seems to me that "jihad is war" since Islam started?
5. if there is a culture of deception, would Islam then be considered a cult?
6. irrespective of all this, can Islam be true or false in and of itself?
7. & how would you (we) know?

 

[James R]

I feel that Islam is a co-opter of religious history (there is no way that Moses, David or Jesus were Muslim prophets)

But Muslims say they believe in the same God.

& I am weary of its claims as peaceful because of 9-11 (& other events)

To be fair, saying that the 9/11 terrorists are representative of all Muslims is like saying that the Jehovah's Witnesses are representative of all Christians.

1. how much of this information can be trusted?

Beware of people with agendas of hate.

2. can Muslims be trusted?

Like any group of people, some can; some can't.

4. seems to me that "jihad is war" since Islam started?

"Jihad" means "struggle". A jihad can be an internal struggle (with yourself, to improve yourself), or an external struggle (e.g. against an oppressor).

5. if there is a culture of deception, would Islam then be considered a cult?

A cult normally has a single, living leader who is considered a special or divine person. Islam does not have such a person.

 

[Arsalan]

I was unsure why there seemed there was this personal animosity displayed against Muslims, with titles like "Muslims lie"
I know that personally, I have two problems (which may be considered biases),
I feel that Islam is a co-opter of religious history (there is no way that Moses, David or Jesus were Muslim prophets)
& I am weary of its claims as peaceful because of 9-11 (& other events)

so there were a few words that I googled, after seeing them
and I found these sites
http://jihadwatch.org/archives/004628.php
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/index.htm

my questions are
1. how much of this information can be trusted?
2. can Muslims be trusted?
3. what is this "dhimmi" stuff?
4. seems to me that "jihad is war" since Islam started?
5. if there is a culture of deception, would Islam then be considered a cult?
6. irrespective of all this, can Islam be true or false in and of itself?
7. & how would you (we) know?

Getting your information about Islam from those websites is the same as getting information about multiculturalism, black people, Jews or just non-whites from the BNP websitte: they are inherently biased. If you were wondering what the "MUslims lie" thread was about, you should have read it. If you dont want to, I suggest you at least read this and this before calling Muslims liars.

 

[John99]

When a child gets caught doing something bad the first thing that occurs to them is to deny it. If the question is do humans lie then the answer is yes, every single one.

Lying is a defense mechanism, it is a flaw no doubt but it is part of being human. If you mean habitual lying and lying with no purpose then that is a psychological condition.

An example:

You have two identical 16 year olds, you catch them smoking. You ask them seperately - "were you smoking?" one admits he was and the other does not. To the one who denies it my response would simply be yes you were but i would not draw many conclusions from that.

Some people would even view the honest one as being weak. But yes, i am aware of people here who are habitual liars and i think the reason is because they view honesty as a weakness.

Jim Jones had his followers lie about specific things. We can conclude that this was the result of conditioning to the point of psychological damage.

 

[John99]

A cult normally has a single, living leader who is considered a special or divine person.

Not really.

 

[FelixC]

1. But Muslims say they believe in the same God.
2. To be fair, saying that the 9/11 terrorists are representative of all Muslims
3. is like saying that the Jehovah's Witnesses are representative of all Christians.
4. Beware of people with agendas of hate.
5. Like any group of people, some can; some can't.
6. "Jihad" means "struggle". A jihad can be an internal struggle (with yourself, to improve yourself), or an external struggle (e.g. against an oppressor).
7. A cult normally has a single, living leader who is considered a special or divine person. Islam does not have such a person.

James R: I would like to comment on your post
1. I know they say that, but that doesn't necessarily make it so. When Moses asked God what was His name, God said "YHWH is my memorial name forever", then 2 thousand years later, its "Allah"? that was a very short forever, or maybe its a different god?
2. I understand, but those were not just car-bombers or IED's, those 19 hijackers had to really believe to face death by flying into a building
3. I know it was a small minority, but given 1.2 billion followers of Islam, then any % will be huge!!!
4. so, would you say that people that left a cult, religion or some org can not be trusted when they claim to give you the inside dirt? what if its a warning? I too would like to hear more, from people that left, that way I can hopefully judge statements made from "official" &/or friendly sources. I'm still stuck on the story a few years ago about the guy that was going to be executed because he converted to Christianity in Afghanistan, had to get US pressure to get him out
5. agree, unless there's a culture of lying, see link below
6. I hope that the 1.199 billion are dealing with their "inner struggles", its the .001 that bothers me with their outward expression, see Darfur, Pakistan, Yemen, etc...
7. It acts like a cult, sort of like football fans (American & world "football" soccer), fanatic fans; with simple rules, the 5 pillars, name change, mob psychology, blood rituals, I hear that people that convert are expected to automatically become pro-Palestinian (irrespective of the validity of the claims pro or con)
I read somewhere that "Mohammad" was not his real name, but a title, that that name did not exist until then. seems he was elevated to second place

Law and Islam in the Middle East
By Daisy Hilse Dwyer

read page 128, section titled "Law and Islamic morality"
httep://books.google.com/books?id=h...&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result