Take children to church?

[fadingCaptain]

Ok, here is the scenario:
You are an atheist. Your spouse is a theist. You have a child. How would you wish to handle your child's upbringing in regards to religion and church attendance? Obviously, you would have to work it out with your spouse, but what would you prefer?

If you are not atheist and are unable to roll-play...please refrain from responding (ie. I would take them to a Baptist church because I'm Baptist).

 

[Thor]

Right, I'd teach the child what I think (Atheism) and let the wench teach the child her beliefs then let it decide (got to do this at an apropriate age though, five-six+)

 

[(Q)]

You are an atheist. Your spouse is a theist.

For all intents and purposes, would an atheist knowingly marry a theist ?

Sorry, I just had to ask.

 

[fadingCaptain]

For all intents and purposes, would an atheist knowingly marry a theist ?

Hehe. Not that many openly atheist hotties that i've seen around. Everybody fight for Xev and Strgrrl!

 

[Cris]

I was continually exposed to xtianity throughout my school life. And I was a practicisng xtian for a few years.

I think attending church highlights the irrationaility of religion, providing one starts out with a skeptical and open-minded perspective.

Watching people talk to the air and sing ancient songs in praise of an imaginary deity is really very amusing. It simply makes one think more depply about such things if you witness it for your yourself. It is simply quite dumb.

I have never taught my children atheism although they all know my views. They have effecitively adopted my views but I would not prevent them doing ther own investigations. I hope I have shown them how to think clearly and armed with that I don't see there is any fear from exposing them to irrational rituals, in fact i think it would help.

Cris

 

[Xev]

If you are not atheist and are unable to roll-play...

Hey, sounds fun. I get to be the naughty catholic schoolgirl - oh crap, you did not mean *that* sort of roleplaying?

I likely would not become that deeply involved with a thiest. While I've always thought that the rage or anger many seem to feel towards us would make sex very interesting*, I don't think a long term relationship would be very wise.

That said, I don't think children should be indoctrinated with anything. Just give them acess to a library and filtered i-net maybe, and let them make their own decisions.

I wouldn't let my man drag my kid to church. Actually, he'd no longer be my man if he dared try. No child of mine will be brainwashed. Let him explain his weird-arsed beliefs when the kid is old enough to decide, like 14 or so.


*I mean, c'mon, who doesn't think that having a partner who thinks you're damned forever would add a bit of, hmmm, spice.

 

[Modz]

While I've always thought that the rage or anger many seem to feel towards us would make sex very interesting*,

*I mean, c'mon, who doesn't think that having a partner who thinks you're damned forever would add a bit of, hmmm, spice.

If I slept with a girl that i knew was a theist im sure the sex would be interresting. But would i respect her in the morning!? (he he..... do i ever?)

no seriasly, if i had a chield with a theist i would try to teach it my values. to be good to others and to yourself. and to think an about the world and what you do.
but i dont agree with worshipping any deity or or organisation.
so i would keep the child from church until it was old enough to deciede for it self and choose a way to go MINE

 

[LIGHTBEING]

Wow FadingCaptain,

This is basically my situation!!!! It is actually a very touchy subject to me.

I don't really know what I classify myself as. I tend to lean a little more towards atheism because I try to be a reasonable, rational, logical thinker but always have doubts...ya know....I guess after a comment like that I'm sort of an Agnostic...for now. I'm always open to the idea of "God". My wife is a born-again Christian. Here's the twist. She didn't get "saved" til 4 1/2 years after we have been dating....So I was already madly in Love with her and would do anything for her. I was not gonna let religion get between us. Honestly, at some points, it was very hard. We would get into a lot more fights. There would just seem to be so much tension. I remember one time she told me I was going to Hell and that pretty much crushed me. I couldn't believe what was happening but I always was focused on our relationship.

Now, we have been together for 8 years and we have been married since 9/15/01. We have both matured on many different levels. We have a wonderful life together. I love being married to her. She is just a great person also extremely Beautiful

Well, now I face a new problem....another mountain to climb over.....Children. She is already talking about having them. I'm still very young but that is not my main concern. My concern is how are we going to raise them

Ofcoase she wants them to go to church but I feel that church brainwashes a bit, specially for young children who don't know how to use their brains yet. She says well, they can go to church and when they are old enough to make a decision, they can. But the problem with that, is that their minds have already been made up for them before they get to make their decision.

I mean which way do I go??? I can't teach them my views and Christianity at the same time...that would just confuse them. I can't not teach them anything at all....she wouldn't have that. And I can't sit there and watch them get brainwashed either.

Well that my delemma. I love kids and I want to have about 4 of them, but this......I am not looking forward to

 

[fadingCaptain]

Thanks for the comments all (Xev - you be the schoolgirl, I'll be the nun ).

Lightbeing,
Well, I asked this question for a reason...I am gonna be a daddy in under 2 months. It has me thinking about many things. I really do feel for you, its a hard situation. Mine isn't so bad, my wife is not devout and doesn't even go to church. She has made some comments about church being 'good' for children because it teaches discipline, morals, etc. I already pretty much have her seeing my view and agreeing that we can teach our kids all those things without church. Plus, my snide comments about child molestation not equaling discipline kinda drove the point home hehe. Anyway, I intend on not taking my kids to church and most seem to agree with me on the poll. I do intend on educating them about the major and minor religions in as unbiased way as possible. Religion is not a big deal between me and my wife, we only got into a fight about it once. She actually holds very similar beliefs to The Chosen's.

Good luck to you and don't let petty things like religion come between you and your wife .

 

[Tinker683]

Speaking as somebody who is in love with a thiest ( A very liberal Christian ) and hopes to, one day, maybe marry her...

This is something Jenn and I have discussed before, and we've agreed that the children should learn about God, and goto church, if they wish it. She told me that she really wants her children to know God, and thats ok- they have every right to feel and learn what they may. I simply told her that I would only teach them to think for themselves, and to follow their own path, whatever they may be, religious or otherwise...

As Dan Barker once said,
" Nobody can tell you what to think- not your teacher, not your parents, or your minister. Yours thoughts are forever free "

Just my 2 cents

 

[Modz]

LIGHTBEING

I mean which way do I go??? I can't teach them my views and Christianity at the same time...that would just confuse them. I can't not teach them anything at all....she wouldn't have that. And I can't sit there and watch them get brainwashed either.

I think you can teach them your views and christianity at the same time, they'll be a bit more confused but they will come out wiser.
And just because your child leans toward relligion, when they are small, doesn't mean that they allways are going to. just teach them to think for them selves, and they'll rebell when they hitt puberty.
you just have to respect what they belive.
(and for fuck sake don't let them belive that daddy is going to hell because he is diffrent)

 

[LIGHTBEING]

Thanks for the advice Tinker and Modz. I guess that is how I'm gonna try to do it. It just seems like it is gonna confuse the hell out of the child. I mean religion and me are complete opposites.
I will try to explain to the kid to think for yourself and think logically and religion will try to explain to the kid to have Faith and basically think unlogically.

Like I said, I have no issue with the concept of "God". I promote the idea of formulating your own conclusion rather then having one drilled into your head from the time you are born. It just is more genuine.

Oh well, such is Life.....wish me luck!!!!

 

[NightFall]

yes.. i think that the child should have the option.... especially more when they are older. I was never forced a religion... and wander between churches and religions for a long time, and finally found one that suited me. I think everyone should be able to do that.

 

[That One Guy]

I don't necessarily agree with letting a young child decide what religion he wants to be. Guess which one he's going to choose? Atheism and staying home without a care or Christianity and being obligated to go church when he/she would rather not?

Keep in mind that parents are role models, and when each parent is promoting a different philosophy he may be forced to make a decision between which one he loves more, mom or dad. I doubt you want this to happen.

And finally to be realistic, no matter what choice you make your child will have to make some very painful decisions. Its your responsibility to alleviate some of the pain by choosing the best course of action, the wisest being to not have a child until all concerns are addressed.

 

[NightFall]

So are you saying that a child should be forced to follow a religion he or she hates because you feel the child would not have the curiosity to decided for him/herself? Not all religions haves churches, and i dont think that a child, or any person for that matter, will stop wondering about gods and faiths just becuase they want to watch cartoons.

Feeding into a persons head that they must go to church to be a good person, and they better not miss out becuase then god wont like them is the worst thing you can do for a person. You might think you are teaching discipline and honesty, when really all your raising is another catholic who orders meatlovers pizza every weekend of lent, drinks heavily christmas, and gets loud over every "god-damned" thing. But ofcourse.. goes to church, becuase thats what they're supposed to do, and what they've always been supposed to do. and since that is all it ever was to them, it MEANS nothing! it has no spiritual effect on them whatsover.

 

[That One Guy]

I am not for a child being forced into a religion, I am against giving him/her the entire responsibility of how they will live their life when they haven't the slightest clue what they are choosing(I believe teenagers should have a choice however). In my previous post I mistakenly confused Christianity with Catholicism and I agree with the fact that a child shouldn't be forced to go to church.
Strictly speaking of Christianity, letting the child decide might work. The basis of the religion is developing a relationship with God without rituals and can be done anytime(although it gets harder the older you become). Keep into consideration that every country's (or should I say nation's?) educational system teaches a different belief, it being Atheism in America. So the child should be exposed to a church(in the sense of a community) in order to 'balance' out things. As for Catholicism, going to church is necessary in the religion I believe and preventing this may cause guilt(for parent and child) later on. I cannot comment on any other religions as I do not feel I could hold a valid argument.
One more thing: In most religions involving God, 'spreading the word' is an important part. For a parent not to encourage his/her child to take part in that religion is considered wrong, and will cause conflict.
So in short, I agree with you except for a few key points.

Last thing, don't have kids until these things are worked out!

 

[NightFall]

i suppose i can agree with that more. however, i am still glad i was never forced into anything when i was young. I often wnt to church with my grandparents.. or friends on some holidays.. my mother was never a church goer as she has her own very different opinions on things (which somewhat include the star-child and other oddities which i dont know enough about to really discuss). I usually bounced around catholic churches, and found one thing in common with all but one of them. the people were very cold. during the "peace be with you" part.. everyone would smile and shake hands and hug/kiss.. but then when you left everyone just raced to the parking lot gripping their childrens hands so they didn't get whisked away, and raced to the parking lot to be the first person out and not get stuck in traffic. as i said, there was one exception, where after the service people met outside and talked and caught up from last sunday.. that was nice.. hmm. where was i going with this... oh right.. and there was also one expirience i had with a pentecostal church attended for a month or two.... that is a *unique* religion to say the least. my current religion is none of the above. I feel that if i were forced to go to church when i was little.. as my father was.. i never would have had these expiriences with different religions, or found my own. Im very happy to have been lucky enough to not have been dragged to an alter in my sunday best once a week until it got to the point that i dreaded it. and it again, this comes back to where i feel one shouldn't attend church, or commit themselves to any other religion, if they only to it becuase they feel they must. They should only do it because they feel it is part of them and really means something spiritually to them, and betters themself.. (sorry to repeat myself there.. just feel its important)

and as for not having children until your ready, i do not plan to have any for a looooong time.... and have considered just having dogs instead. you can still name them, feed them raise them. but when hey get awnry in their teenage years you can put them to sleep .....

My boyfriend and i are both different relegions which have their similarities and the differances... i think that i have decided to raise my children to "observe" mommy's religion, but not to teach it to them, unless they want to learn. and if daddy wants to go to church. and they want to go, that is fine too. i would leave it up to them.. even if they wanted to spend the first few years worshipping spongebob.. i see nothing wrong with that.

 

[LIGHTBEING]

Nightfall,

My wife belongs to a Pentecostal Church. Just so you know a little more where I'm coming from. Very unique to say the least. The first time I went there people were falling on the floor and crying. I felt very overwhelmed and uncomfortable. I never understood why they did that. Shouldn't they be happy that they are going to "Heaven". They didn't seem like happy cries either. It was almost like they were painfully unhappy and decided on a whim to pity themselves that particular day. Very odd. I felt like grabbing them and telling them to get a grip. But hey I guess I'll never understand, right?

I'd say I go to church with my wife like every other week. She goes every week. I still feel uncomfortable going but I like to humor my wife, ya know. In the beginning of the service they sing songs, they have a band and everything. It's pretty cool. But you would never catch me singing their songs, I tend to read during that time. Then they have the morning tithes and offerings(don't even get me started on this!!!!). Then they may have a special, like someone might do a solo song or the chior may do a little something. Then the Pastor reads the prayer requests, were people in church write down certains needs whether it be financial, emotional, or physical conditions. Some can be really petty but most are serious. It can be from "my son is in bed with a cough" to "I just lost my job" to "I have cancer" and the whole church prays over them. Finally, the Pastor starts to Preech. This is the part that I a more interested in. The Pastor is a friends of my wife's family and he is a extremely respected and knowledgeable guy. I just like to hear what he has to say. Some of it I agree with but other times I feel like raising my hand and asking a question or correcting him. Then he closes in Prayer and says that the alters are open. At any given time during the service anyone could loose it and drop down to their knees, it's crazy. This acts as a domino effect. Usually when one person goes down atleast 10 or so drop as well followed by horrible sounding cries and screams. However it has calmed down a little bit.

A good thing about a Pentecostal church, in the Christian sense, is that they are Biblical churches. They teach exactly from the Bible and aren't caught up with the traditional part of religion. Another thing is that they are very close, almost like a big family.

 

[LIGHTBEING]

Nightfall,

My wife belongs to a Pentecostal Church. Just so you know a little more where I'm coming from. Very unique to say the least. The first time I went there people were falling on the floor and crying. I felt very overwhelmed and uncomfortable. I never understood why they did that. Shouldn't they be happy that they are going to "Heaven". They didn't seem like happy cries either. It was almost like they were painfully unhappy and decided on a whim to pity themselves that particular day. Very odd. I felt like grabbing them and telling them to get a grip. But hey I guess I'll never understand, right?

I'd say I go to church with my wife like every other week. She goes every week. I still feel uncomfortable going but I like to humor my wife, ya know. In the beginning of the service they sing songs, they have a band and everything. It's pretty cool. But you would never catch me singing their songs, I tend to read during that time. Then they have the morning tithes and offerings(don't even get me started on this!!!!). Then they may have a special, like someone might do a solo song or the chior may do a little something. Then the Pastor reads the prayer requests, were people in church write down certains needs whether it be financial, emotional, or physical conditions. Some can be really petty but most are serious. It can be from "my son is in bed with a cough" to "I just lost my job" to "I have cancer" and the whole church prays over them. Finally, the Pastor starts to Preech. This is the part that I a more interested in. The Pastor is a friend of my wife's family and he is a extremely respected and knowledgeable guy. I just like to hear what he has to say. Some of it I agree with but other times I feel like raising my hand and asking a question or correcting him. Then he closes in Prayer and says that the alters are open. At any given time during the service anyone could loose it and drop down to their knees, it's crazy. This acts as a domino effect. Usually when one person goes down atleast 10 or so drop as well followed by horrible sounding cries and screams. However it has calmed down a little bit.

A good thing about a Pentecostal church, in the Christian sense, is that they are Biblical churches. They teach exactly from the Bible and aren't caught up with the traditional part of religion. Another thing is that they are very close, almost like a big family.

 

[LIGHTBEING]

That One Guy,

I know what you are saying about not having children until all issues are addressed. But in my situation this won't really do anything. She is a devout Born Again Christian that is not willing to bend or even meet me half way when it comes to this. The reason is because of her religion. Her religion doesn't bend in any way. Christianity is very close-minded religion and so is she especially when the Bible addresses this issue. Her church also has lots of children. They promote the idea of children going to church.

I don't mind if they go to church once in a while but she would want them once to twice a week.

Doesn't look good. Maybe I can intentionally plan something with my children every Sunday morning