Student Loan

Are $100,000 student loans to 18 year olds moral?


  • Total voters
    9

Michael

歌舞伎
Valued Senior Member
Is it true that Banks have been endowed with the unique ability to create wealth? Society gives them the right to issue credit, in the form of a loan, which when paid back, creates new wealth as part of the interest repayment. I'm still unclear about that. I know banks issue loans worth much more than the amount of deposits they have and I am pretty sure only banks can do this. Is that correct? Or anyone can do this? It seems that if anyone was going to give a loan out, then they'd be doing so with their own cash. As in, they'd have to have the amount of money they loaning out (which I just did a few weeks ago, I loaned out $2000 of my own money).

If it's true that banks do not have to have the amount that they loan. This seems like they have a special privilege. They create the credit out of thin air? Also, we the Citizens back their loans don't we? I mean, we insure their bank accounts up to $250K yes? Then surely they (the banks) must act morally when they do give a loan?

With this in mind, would anyone think it moral for a banker to give a high school kid a $100,000 loan for a new Ferrari? Some kid with no job. That'd be crazy. But would it be immoral? I don't think so IF the kid could default on the loan. Then we could rack it up to an idiot banker. But, let's now imagine it was impossible for that high school kid to get out of repayment of that loan. The jobless kid can't repay the payments, he loses the car, then he's trapped working for the Banker (for nearly half his life) in order to repay back that loan. Sort of like an indentured servant.

That's not moral is it? I wouldn't thinks so. Suppose the banker takes the same car and does it again. I'm pretty sure society wouldn't stand for that sort of immoral behavior.

At least I'd hope not.


So then, why do so many of us accept it as moral to encumber fresh out of high school 17-18 year old kids with loans of up to $100,000+ to attend University? Why is this moral? It doesn't seem moral to me. Many of these degrees are nearly worthless :shrug:

Any thoughts? Anyone else see a problem with this?
 
Last edited:
because the US is a fucked up society which doesn't realise that there is a difference between a COUNTRY and an ECONOMY and that the difference is SOCIETY.
 
because the US is a fucked up society which doesn't realise that there is a difference between a COUNTRY and an ECONOMY and that the difference is SOCIETY.
Australian students are going equally as deep into debt and the US students. The Australian government spends a full 25% LESS than any other developed nation on higher education (including the USA). Not to mention Australians are down right tight arsed when compared to the USA. Australians give dick-all in philanthropic donations instead expecting the government to pick up the tab. Even in this depression the UofM endowment fund for 2011 is at around 8 Billion. Australians just don't donate and are now happily putting more and more on the shoulders of the Australian student financially. Not to mention AU has a sweet little scam where International students get points for their PR Visa's IF they get a degree from an AU institution. Effectively international students fund Australian Universities to the tune of billions each year and sadly, these young students must go even DEEPER in debt. SOME end up having to return home to boot!

Higher education is Australia is of a much lower standard comparably. With the notable exception of Honours which actually is excellent training. How many students have the opportunity to do Honours. Not many. Australian students are expected to pay much more and they receive much less compared to students in the USA. It's not that the staff wouldn't want to do more, but, the funding in AU is so utterly shit that this is the best Australian academics can possibly do with what they have.



Thank the Gods I did my undergraduate at the University of Michigan at a time when it was cheap and offered tons of free student services.



Anyway, I conclude it is immoral to give these massive loans to students who are 18 years old AND force them to pay. I don't mind you giving the loan, but, don't force students to pay it back. This means the loan should be much more reasonable and the Universities much more affordable.
 
What Asgard forgets (he does it a lot, he's usually desperate to jump at any possible negative thing about the US) is that there are literally thousands of universities in the US. It's not a failing of society that millions of morons rack up billions in debts going to private universities to get bachelors degrees in social science, history and education--precisely the degrees that don't matter dick which university you went to.

The typical local, public college is just as cheap as colleges in most nations. It's just that--and this is the failing of Americans--we're taught to be elitists. We all "deserve" Ivy League educations to put on our resumes. If American kids would wake up, do there first two years at there local community college, then make an appropriate decision on their career need for a specific school, they'd come out of college with little debt and solid educations.

A private school only serves if it serves a purpose. If it doesn't, then only a moron would willingly rack up $150k in debt. And guess what? They do. Their own fault.

~String
 
Australian students are going equally as deep into debt and the US students. The Australian government spends a full 25% LESS than any other developed nation on higher education (including the USA). Not to mention Australians are down right tight arsed when compared to the USA. Australians give dick-all in philanthropic donations instead expecting the government to pick up the tab. Even in this depression the UofM endowment fund for 2011 is at around 8 Billion. Australians just don't donate and are now happily putting more and more on the shoulders of the Australian student financially. Not to mention AU has a sweet little scam where International students get points for their PR Visa's IF they get a degree from an AU institution. Effectively international students fund Australian Universities to the tune of billions each year and sadly, these young students must go even DEEPER in debt. SOME end up having to return home to boot!

Partially true, partially because its not a true loan. There is no interest for one thing and if you never earn enough to reach the threshold for repayments you never have to pay it and if you die it disappears rather than becoming a debt on your estate. And anyway nothing you have said disproves what I did, where do you think the "User pay" idiocy that was starting to creep into our university system (its been beaten back somewhat under labor) came from? My parents didnt pay 1 $ for there degrees, they got them under whitlam
 
Is it true that Banks have been endowed with the unique ability to create wealth?
No. Banks create money, not wealth. Money is a record of wealth, in most cases surplus wealth (wealth which does not need to be more-or-less immediately spent on the production or consumption of necessities) or, as it's more commonly called, capital.
Society gives them the right to issue credit, in the form of a loan, which when paid back, creates new wealth as part of the interest repayment. I'm still unclear about that. I know banks issue loans worth much more than the amount of deposits they have and I am pretty sure only banks can do this. Is that correct?
You're talking about the multiplier effect, but you've got it a bit muddled.

When you, and everyone else in your community, deposit your money in a bank, everyone knows that you're not going to walk back in a day later and withdraw it, or write checks equal to the total you deposited. This illustrates how money is, indeed, a record of surplus wealth, because if it was not surplus you wouldn't be able to leave it in the bank for more than a very short time until you needed to spend it on something you need for day-to-day life.

Therefore, the bank only needs to keep a fraction of their total deposits on hand as coins and bills. The government (in the USA the Federal Reserve) decides how big that fraction has to be. It's been decades since I got my degree in accounting so I don't know what the fraction is today, but let's say 20%. So let's say your bank has $10,000,000 in the accounts of you and your neighbors and the other people in your town. They only have to keep $2,000,000 of that money on hand in case several of you run in tomorrow and want to buy Lamborghinis to impress your girlfriends. What are they going to do with the $8,000,000 that they're not required to keep on hand?

Well hey, they're a bank, so they're probably going to lend it out to other customers. Some of your neighbors want to buy houses, some want to start businesses, some want to send their kids to college, and some just want to spend six months in Honolulu. They come in and fill out the loan applications, and the bank deposits the $8,000,000 in their accounts and starts sending them bills every month to pay back the money slowly.

But wait! Now the bank has total deposits of $18,000,000. They only need to keep $3,600,000 on hand for withdrawal, but they've got $9,000,000. They've still got $5,400,000 that they don't need to keep handy.

So they loan that money out to another bunch of nice people who want to build movie theaters and factories. They go through the same process again, and again and again. After an infinite series of iterations of this process, eventually they end up with $10,000,000 on hand, and $50,000,000 in deposits. Even if they don't go all the way to infinity, they'll end up with pretty close to that amount.

So that ten million dollars ended up being multiplied to fifty million. But this is only the money that's been multiplied. The wealth that that money is a record of was created by all the people in your community. It's the businesses and educations and factories and movie theaters and the mai tais in Hawaii, and even the Lamborghinis. The bank didn't create that wealth; you did. Well you and the bartender in Hawaii and the Lamborghini factory anyway.

Banks don't create wealth. They create the money which you use to create the wealth.
Or anyone can do this? It seems that if anyone was going to give a loan out, then they'd be doing so with their own cash. As in, they'd have to have the amount of money they loaning out (which I just did a few weeks ago, I loaned out $2000 of my own money).
You can't do it because you don't have any deposits. There's no multiplier effect when you loan somebody your own money. You've just reduced your own purchasing power and increased theirs. You don't have any deposits. That's where the multiplication comes in. The multiplier effect occurs when you are loaning Mister A's money to Mister B.
If it's true that banks do not have to have the amount that they loan.
That depends on what you call "money." If you mean currency and coins, then the answer is yes. But currency and coins are only one kind of money. Remember that money is a record, and there are other kinds of records besides currency and coins. The passbook for your savings account is a printout from a computer file; that computer file is also money: a record of your capital.
This seems like they have a special privilege. They create the credit out of thin air?
You're getting tangled up in the terminology. They create the money from the deposits they have, and then they create the credit out of that.
Also, we the Citizens back their loans don't we? I mean, we insure their bank accounts up to $250K yes?
Not exactly. The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. insures those deposits from the Bank Insurance Fund. The Bank Insurance Fund consists of money that has been paid by the banks themselves. The Comptroller of the Currency, for example, supervises all the examiners that go into all the banks on a recurring schedule and investigate their records to make sure that all their financial activities are both legal and properly performed, and the banks pay a fee for this service. Those fees pay the salaries of the examiners, but they also support the Bank Insurance Fund. (I once worked on a software project for the Comptroller of the Currency so I got to learn about all this stuff--and any errors in my explanation are entirely my own.)

This particular little corner of the United States government, to my knowledge, is the only one that is completely paid for by the organizations that utilize its services. No tax money is used at all. This is why your statement is not correct. It is not we, the citizens, who insure the banks. The banks, in aggregate, insure themselves.
Then surely they (the banks) must act morally when they do give a loan?
They must act legally and they must act prudently, for example by not loaning money to people who will obviously not be able to pay it back. But "morally"? If you live in Nevada where prostitution is legal and you go to your local bank to borrow money to open a brothel, they will look at your financial records and make sure you have not spent any time in prison, but they won't judge the morality of your enterprise.
With this in mind, would anyone think it moral for a banker to give a high school kid a $100,000 loan for a new Ferrari? Some kid with no job. That'd be crazy. . . . . So then, why do so many of us accept it as moral to encumber fresh out of high school 17-18 year old kids with loans of up to $100,000+ to attend University?
Because there is a huge difference. To spend the money on a Ferrari is consumption. It's dissipation of capital, by exchanging surplus wealth for a product that wears out and will eventually have zero value.

Spending money on an education is not consumption. The whole purpose of education is to increase the student's earning power. In normal times (and I'll be the first to stipulate that we are not living in normal times right now) if a student borrows $100K to get a master's degree in chemical engineering from a university well-known for the high quality of its chemistry and engineering departments, in the first four or five years after graduation he will earn $100K more than he would have earned in that same time with a high school diploma. So it is a reasonable investment for the bank to loan him the money. They have created surplus wealth or capital by increasing the productivity of the student. Instead of making hamburgers, he's now designing the molecules that make the hamburgers smell better so people will buy more of them. (A little levity here for entertainment.)
Why is this moral? It doesn't seem moral to me.
I've already dismissed your concerns with morality. The economy does not deal in morality. We have other institutions for that. Churches don't give loans and banks don't bitch at us about sinning.
Many of these degrees are nearly worthless.
Yes, the American educational system has become just a teeny bit dysfunctional, but that's not a problem that the banks can solve. There are more people with degrees than there are jobs that require them. The last statistics I saw said that something like 60% of Americans with degrees are doing jobs that don't really require them, but the employers ask for them because they know they can get them. Not only that, but something like 20% of Americans with degrees are unemployed and sleeping on their parents' sofa.

This of course is as much a manifestation of the particularly weak economy we're going through, as well as a statement of the motivation, work ethic, and sense of responsibility some of these new graduates have or don't have, as much as it is a reflection on the quality of education.

The emphasis on degrees has perturbed the job market and the way young people see it. Many of the trades offer very good incomes. Plumbers, for example, make a bloody fortune, and once they complete their apprenticeship they've got apprentices of their own to do all the hard work. They're the only people who get away with charging their customers for their driving time; even lawyers can't do that!
 
I think far to many people are attending colleges these days who really don't belong there or don't have a chance of getting a "better" job after they get a degree in something. To just hand out money isn't a very prudent thing to be doing unless those students maintain at least a "B" average or above I don't think they should be allowed to receive any public monies for their tuition. We need people as electricians, plumbers, carpenters, farmers, police and many other types of work that does not need a college degree to earn a good wage.
 
The OP's question is too generic. If the loan is for a lawyer's or doctor's degree, no it is OK. If it is for women's study or basket waving, it is immoral. Why? Because with those stupid and worthless degrees the student has no chance to pay the loan back, ever.

Education is an investment and should be treated as such. So student loans shouldn't be given out automaticly to everyone....
 
Totally BOGUS poll.

That's NOT how it works.

A student gets a loan PER SEMESTER, so no, an 18 year old is NOT getting a $100,000 loan.

First of all one has to actually be progressing in the degree program at an acredited institution, on a semester by semester basis, to get these loans and so most of the loan amounts are to people who are far older than 18.

And yes, the degrees, particularly the Science Degrees are still "worth it"

PayScale used nationwide salary survey data of people with undergraduate degrees and calculated starting salaries and median salaries for mid-career workers, defined as people who had 15 years experience in a field. Engineering -- aerospace, chemical computer, electrical -- took the top mid-career salary slots, with earnings between $109,000 and $102,000. Majors like elementary education ($42,400) and social work ($41,600) yielded the lowest median salaries, but other majors like philosophy had a median salary of $76,700 and art history delivered a median salary of $62,400.

To be sure, many liberal arts and humanities majors are not relying solely on their four-year degrees for their career earnings, the Georgetown study noted. Some 41% of liberal arts and humanities majors go on to earn graduate degrees, which provides graduates with an 50% return on their investment, on average, according to the study.

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2011/06/07/what’s-a-college-degree-actually-worth/

Secondly, your whole BS about banks making money and loaning more then their assets is totally bogus. (Fraggle covered it very well)

To add this which helps put this in perspective,
in the FDIC Quarterly Report. Total loans among all banks amount to $7.28 trillion while total deposits are $9.22 trillion. That’s a 79% loans-to-deposit ratio, and that’s a good target number for most banks.

http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/garrett_watts/137979.aspx

Arthur
 
Anyway, I conclude it is immoral to give these massive loans to students who are 18 years old AND force them to pay. I don't mind you giving the loan, but, don't force students to pay it back.

If people don't have to pay back the loan, then institutions won't make the loan.
Meaning deserving students who can't afford it won't be able to go to these Universities.

This means the loan should be much more reasonable and the Universities much more affordable.

Actually the terms of the loans are usually some of the best you can get without collateral.
Plenty of Universities are quite affordable.
Indeed for most degrees one can get the first two years at a very low cost community college and then go to an in State University to complete the degree and not rack up much debt at all.

For instance ODU, a very fine University is but $8,100 per year.

http://admissions.odu.edu/undergraduate.php?page=calculator

Put in two years at a community college like Norfolk State and then finish at ODU and you are only in the hole maybe $20k to $25k.

And yes, unless your degree is in basket weaving it will easily be worth it.

Arthur
 
Totally BOGUS poll.

That's NOT how it works.

A student gets a loan PER SEMESTER, so no, an 18 year old is NOT getting a $100,000 loan.

That's why I selected "yes".

One: my education that I'm paying for with loans right now (granted, I'm 36) will amount to $75K. I'm going to a reasonably good school, that's private, that has EXACTLY the program I want and one that is very well renown (it was actually created by the NSA & Homeland Sec. for their employees)

Two: As Fraggle said, it's not like I'm buying something that depreciates over time.

Three: Like you said, nobody takes out a 100k loan all at once. Even if they did, they certainly have outstanding choices that negate having to make such a choice.

~String
 
Last edited:
And yes, the degrees, particularly the Science Degrees are still "worth it"

Exactly, it's about making intelligent choices in the degree you're pursuing. Too many Tommy Tonkatrucks and Suzy Chapsticks think that a Harvard degree in Social Sciences or a Berkley degree in Early Childhood Education is somehow a great investment in their future. That's idiotic. As you cover, quite well, what the alternatives are in this next post (as I did earlier).

adoucette said:
Actually the terms of the loans are usually some of the best you can get without collateral.

SOME! Hell, they are simply THE BEST you can find. No collateral? Zero % interest on a good chunk? Puh-leeze!

Plenty of Universities are quite affordable.

Indeed for most degrees one can get the first two years at a very low cost community college and then go to an in State University to complete the degree and not rack up much debt at all.

. . .

Put in two years at a community college like Norfolk State and then finish at ODU and you are only in the hole maybe $20k to $25k.

And yes, unless your degree is in basket weaving it will easily be worth it.

EXAAAAAAAACTLY!

Get the crappy two years of your under-grad done at a community college or a state school (if you have a cheep one nearby, or a private school if you have a scholarship). Then finish your undergrad where it matters, if that's all you're pursuing. Then, if it is highly relevant to your career, go ahead and go to Princeton or Vanderbilt.

But I love reading these sob stories of people getting their bachelors in administration from Princeton or (in a specific case that I just read) where a 22 year old girl graduated from Duke with a fucking bachelors degree in social work. SOCIAL WORK! REALLY!!! You went to one of the finest universities on earth to get a degree in social work!? She graduated with something like $185k in loans. When pressed as to why she chose the school she did and the degree she pursued, she spouted some weird rosie nonsense about how everybody has a right to a higher education.

Yeah. No shit Shirlock. You do. And you got it. Nobody stopped you. But, nobody made you go either. You coulda' gotten the same degree in Cleveland by going to Cuyahoga Community College for your first two years (for free, as long as you graduated high school with a 4.0, which she did--obviously--in order to get in to Duke) and then she could have gone to Cleveland State for a massive discount because (a) she qualified for great scholarships because of her background (minority, poor, etc.) and she would have obviously gotten good grades at the CCC while doing her first two years.

She COULD have graduated in four years, with absolutely ZERO debt and gotten the same job she got, making the same pay. But, OH, wait. . . she would not have had a DUKE diploma, and her elitist mentality convinced her that she deserved it. Well, she will be paying for that $185k for the rest of her life. Hope it was worth it. No pity.

And she is an example of what many people do. If you want ONLY a bachelor's degree in something like teaching, social science or some other non-elitist and/or low paying career (even a lawyer, as not all elite law schools are worth the investment), then select a local, public college. If you're going to be an engineer, physician or a government functionary (like State or the FBI), then--sure--a pricey, private education may be worth it. And I say "may" because I fail to see how getting $400k in loans to pay for a Harvard MD is any better than $125 at Ohio State for the same degree. I've yet to see a Harvard doctor do much more than an OSU doctor, especially considering that OSU is still ranked at the top of its game.

~String
 
What Asgard forgets (he does it a lot, he's usually desperate to jump at any possible negative thing about the US) is that there are literally thousands of universities in the US. It's not a failing of society that millions of morons rack up billions in debts going to private universities to get bachelors degrees in social science, history and education--precisely the degrees that don't matter dick which university you went to.

The typical local, public college is just as cheap as colleges in most nations. It's just that--and this is the failing of Americans--we're taught to be elitists. We all "deserve" Ivy League educations to put on our resumes. If American kids would wake up, do there first two years at there local community college, then make an appropriate decision on their career need for a specific school, they'd come out of college with little debt and solid educations.

A private school only serves if it serves a purpose. If it doesn't, then only a moron would willingly rack up $150k in debt. And guess what? They do. Their own fault.

~String

Universities prey on the young student . They pull all kinds of tricks to entice the kids . Bate and switch is used also . Now I am a believer of exhausting your resources before moving on . Local schools while you live with your parents are a great way to do this . Yet a lot of American children have been enchanted by media hype of " Let the good times roll college educations "

O.K. my one Daughter she started out in the hole real fast and I thought it a pretty good scam by the university she was going to . No worries enrollment and then the slam comes and nice guy goes away . I don't know where the confusion came in but she ended up short financially the very first year and it was almost like a margin call when you are under capitalized and yes they had the private loan already to go signed sealed and delivered. High interest loan I might add . We told her " don't do it it is a banking scam . She did but for the bare minimum to get by and the very next year the banking scam was right back trying to get her to do it again . The university was ringing there hands in anticipation of more private loan money coming there way .

It was a fucking scam . Fuck all you that don't think so . The university and the lenders were perpetrating a scam on the youth of America .
She would have been in deep trouble way over her head if she didn't get out and get out quick . She joined the air-force and told them to go fuck them selves. Spent the next 4 years paying off the student loan .

Now the Air-Force ( Government pays her 900 a month above her government job of 45,000 a year while paying for any school she want to go to . Life is sweet for her now a days as she is working towards her law degree.
So she makes about 55,800 a year while the government pays for here higher education so she can make even more in the future .

Pretty good change over from what it would of been if she just continued to go to that original university that wanted so bad to trap her into the bottomless pit of student loans

It was a fucking scam job supported by Government and you fuck nuts that hold the children responsible can bit Me .

It is no wonder so many want to scam back at them .

If I was a young person I don't know what I would do, but in all fairness I would be Mad as Hell . I might even get all my friends and Occupy wall street .

Artur they were fucked up loans . I could get a better loan with a signature . I did an analysis of the " Loan " and it was a scam job preying on the ignorance of the young .

It took Me about five minutes to see the deception of the black hole. The first ones were cosign loans that also trap the parents into unfavorable terms . No way !! Good thing Me and my wife no how to read loan documents.

Any you that don't think I can can Bite Me also . 40 years of reading loan papers and actually reading them teaches you a thing or 2 about loan practices and how they have evolved . I suppose a sub-prime loan is a good product also ? Also stated income way of qualifying is good way to do things too?

It is bull shit and we the people are being held accountable for the greed of large institutions that violated banking principles. THE LOANS SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN MADE.
Who is to blame for loans that should never have been in the first place . Yeah blame the young people you fucking cowards

More like a pay day loan than legitimate lending .
 
Last edited:
Someone going to Duke, which basically costs $50k per year regardless of what degree you are going for and then complaining about their $185k loan after graduation is like someone bitching about the cost of their $185K Mazeratti and saying they didn't know that good $40,000 cars existed.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
There are more people with degrees than there are jobs that require them. The last statistics I saw said that something like 60% of Americans with degrees are doing jobs that don't really require them, but the employers ask for them because they know they can get them. Not only that, but something like 20% of Americans with degrees are unemployed and sleeping on their parents' sofa.
That, yes...and our economy's just not doing very well...You have a pool of increasingly talented people chasing around professional jobs because it's either that or service-industry. Or medical.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:

That, yes...and our economy's just not doing very well...You have a pool of increasingly talented people chasing around professional jobs because it's either that or service-industry. Or medical.

Nah

college-unemployment.png


You want to stay off the unemployment line, finishing HS is imperative but having a degree is also a good place to start.

Arthut
 
how much does a person have to make to be able to afford to live and pay there student loan ? That is the bigger question . How long does a person have to sacrifice to live ? Give up there desires in the name of getting a good job and existing until they think they are free and clear of being beasts of burdens .?

O.K. kids get out your calculators . I can't find my mortgage calculator ? I don't do that anymore . If I could find it I don't know if I can remember anyway sense I shed that skin . We could amortize your social slavery . See how bad it is?

I just saw the funniest forward . A right wing forward . Obama was talking into a window at a day care. There were about 4 or 5 3 to 5 year old kids in the window . He says to them in a question . " You know how much you kids owe the government already ?
 
We need people as electricians, plumbers, carpenters, farmers, police and many other types of work that does not need a college degree to earn a good wage.
Most large police forces require their new recruits to pass courses and earn a diploma in a police academy. It's not a full four-year university education but it's a notch above high school. It doesn't cover all the "general education" requirements that a university would, or even a community college, but they do teach them the things they need to know, like psychology. Generally only in small rural towns do you find cops who are not well educated, and even those jurisdictions often pay to send their recruits to the nearest big city's police academy.
The OP's question is too generic. If the loan is for a lawyer's or doctor's degree, no it is OK. If it is for women's study or basket weaving, it is immoral. Why? Because with those stupid and worthless degrees the student has no chance to pay the loan back, ever.
Those courses are hardly worthless. We all need to know a little more about women because they make up more than half the population (they tend not to kill each other off in wars like we do) and most classes focus on men. As for basketweaving, I think you'd have to find a university on an Indian reservation before you'd see an actual degree program in it. It's a course for art majors who want to be well-rounded and able to work in more than one medium.

The real point here is that you should be able to find some really good teachers for those classes in your local public university that's going to charge you less than $10K per year. In fact there are some really good classes of that type in community colleges where the fees are dirt-cheap. Many community colleges specialize in courses that are not necessarily on the track for a degree program. They are great places for music, ethnic studies, etc.
Education is an investment and should be treated as such. So student loans shouldn't be given out automatically to everyone....
They are not given out automatically to everyone. The OP is just a teeny bit hyperbolic. You have to have decent grades, score well on the SAT, and demonstrate some motivation before you can get one, unless you happen to belong to a community with institutions that try to push their own people ahead and don't look at their qualifications too carefully, such as "Daughters of the Deadheads," or something like that.
That's NOT how it works. . . . in the FDIC Quarterly Report. Total loans among all banks amount to $7.28 trillion while total deposits are $9.22 trillion. That’s a 79% loans-to-deposit ratio, and that’s a good target number for most banks.
So I was just about right. Banks are apparently required to keep 20% of their money on hand and loan out the rest, so the multiplier effect is 500%.
And yes, the degrees, particularly the Science Degrees are still "worth it."
There are plenty of fields in which you can't possibly work without a degree. It's conceivable that a self-taught legal scholar might be able to become a skilled lawyer, and we all know twelve year-olds who are precocious self-taught software engineers, but it's rather doubtful that anyone could pull it off in medicine, chemical engineering, or any discipline that requires a lot of lab or field work, not just heavy reading and computer skills.
Exactly, it's about making intelligent choices in the degree you're pursuing. Too many Tommy Tonkatrucks and Suzy Chapsticks think that a Harvard degree in Social Sciences or a Berkeley degree in Early Childhood Education is somehow a great investment in their future. That's idiotic.
In almost any field of study or endeavor, there's room for a small number of superstars, and a Harvard degree will give you an advantage (but not a guarantee) of becoming one. But it shouldn't be hard to count noses and see how many people are already vying for those superstar positions. That counting exercise should lead one to the sobering realization that one had better already be a superstar-in-the-making before asking Mommy and Daddy to send one to Harvard. (The University of California at Berkeley is a public university so it's not as costly as Harvard for a California resident.)

More importantly, it should lead Mommy and Daddy to that sobering realization. Unless you've taken some time off to mature and learn a trade, or perhaps do a Hippie Walkabout and see how the rest of the world lives, so you're entering college as an adult, any top-tier university is going to talk to your parents before it decides whether to admit you at all, much less loan you the money. If your parents are too dysfunctional to do their job of protecting your interests by vetoing a hair-brained scheme to borrow $100K to launch a career in which $100K will equate to twenty years' discretionary income, then I'm terribly sorry for your misfortune.
SOME! Hell, they are simply THE BEST you can find. No collateral? Zero % interest on a good chunk? Puh-leeze!
There is one major down-side to student loans: if you declare bankruptcy, they are one of only two types of debts that will NOT be cancelled. (The other is back taxes. The government makes sure that its laws work in its own favor. ;)) The up side is that these creditors are generally not very aggressive with their collection tactics if you fall behind. They will send you a lot of scary mail and they will phone you at inconvenient hours, but they won't kidnap your dog.
But, OH, wait. . . she would not have had a DUKE diploma, and her elitist mentality convinced her that she deserved it. Well, she will be paying for that $185k for the rest of her life. Hope it was worth it. No pity.
This is a rather predictable phenomenon in modern America, where branding is more important than quality. Or as Mrs. Fraggle and I put it, "The quality of today's eye-popping TV commercials with music by the Rolling Stones is better than the quality of the products they're selling."
Universities prey on the young student . They pull all kinds of tricks to entice the kids . Bate and switch is used also . Now I am a believer of exhausting your resources before moving on . Local schools while you live with your parents are a great way to do this . Yet a lot of American children have been enchanted by media hype of " Let the good times roll college educations "
This is yet another manifestation of what I have already lamented: Parents do not play a sufficiently prominent role in their children's decisions about college. We don't think 19 year-olds are mature and responsible enough to let them drink a frelling glass of beer! So why do we think they are mature and responsible enough to make a decision that will A) select a career that most of them will have to live with for the rest of their life AND B) go so deeply in debt that they'll never have enough discretionary income to consider starting over in a new career?
O.K. my one Daughter she started out in the hole real fast and I thought it a pretty good scam by the university she was going to . No worries enrollment and then the slam comes and nice guy goes away . I don't know where the confusion came in but she ended up short financially the very first year and it was almost like a margin call when you are undercapitalized and yes they had the private loan already to go signed sealed and delivered. High interest loan I might add . We told her "don't do it, it is a banking scam." She did but for the bare minimum to get by and the very next year the banking scam was right back trying to get her to do it again. The university was wringing their hands in anticipation of more private loan money coming their way.
We've watched Corporate America degenerate into a mob of scavengers who do little more than buy up each other's rotting corpses and send what little work they have to China. We've just recently watched Political America behave like a bunch of eight year-olds screaming, "I won't compromise! If I can't have my way I'll let the country collapse!"

So we can't be too surprised to discover that even Academic America has lost all sense of maturity and is only looking one or two quarters into the future.
She joined the air-force and told them to go fuck them selves. Spent the next 4 years paying off the student loan.
The armed forces may be one of the last holdouts where maturity and a long-term perspective still count for something. But I wouldn't bet on it. Ever since Perestroika brought the Cold War to a screeching halt, they've been trying desperately to come up with an excuse to keep their funding at its then-current level. Why else have we spent three trillion dollars fighting an enemy that kills the same number of Americans per decade as peanut allergies?
It was a scam job supported by Government and you nuts that hold the children responsible can bit Me.
No, I don't hold children responsible for being children and not having the depth of judgment that even adults don't develop until they're about 30--deferred gratification and all that stuff. I hold their parents responsible. You're a good parent and I know many more like you. But I've also met many of the other kind. I know a couple of people whose kids have been in and out of prison, and I know them well enough to understand that some of the bad decisions they made have a great deal to do with how those kids turned out.
Who is to blame for loans that should never have been in the first place. Yeah blame the young people you cowards
No, I blame the parents. Especially the hippies who want to be their buddies and let them call them by their first names instead of actually doing the hard work of acting like parents and insisting on being called "Mom" and "Dad."

You know, the ones who hold down two jobs so they can take cruises and buy fabulous stuff, meanwhile letting their children be raised by nannies.
 
Don't get Me started on who is running things in our wonderful world Frag . Yeah the Children . They are a reflection of you parents . That is not to hard to imagine is it ? They come out by the way you act , not by what you say .

My son he is 14 . It is very hard for a 14 year old to get a job . He got one . Hard to believe and the government would probably think I was abusing him . No he don't have to work . He wants to work . He looks forward to going to work cause it is him and his 2 friends . Commodore with a got work ethic . They are doing piece work and they split the money equally . They all work the same hours .
I support what ever he wants to do in this endeavor . There is nothing different about my Honors class kid than anyone else of capable intelligence. It is his passion for life that makes him that way. Were did he get that ? Example lazy butts
 
Back
Top