stolen ideas

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drwebpat

Registered Member
Hello all! I've been browsing sciforums for a few days now just taking everything in. What I'm really fascinated about in this forum is the fact that many atheists voice their opinion. Having come to the realization myself and growing up in a community where everyone is a theist, I've had to keep this all to myself. I look forward to making more posts here and debating :D

Anyway my question:

Not knowing many of the other religions of the world I really had no idea how many ideas the bible has taken from other religion's. I was wondering if anyone knew a site or other resource that may have a list or that might go into more detail into this.

Thanks,
Pat

ps. aside from this forum....unless there is a particular thread I may not have come across
 
Welcome to SciForums drwebpat! =)

Probably the first thing I'd suggest is to read up on an ancient cult known as Mithra. Christianity seems to have stolen many, many things from it (I'd guess over 60% of its rituals, ideas and so on). Everything from the last supper to baptism can be found in Mithra (which is believed to have been around long before Christianity, roughly 1000 years before). Most Christians debunk Mithra, saying it's completely false, yet more than half of Christianity is based directly on it, I suppose someone should tell them this. This is a good starting link:

http://www.vetssweatshop.net/dogma3c.htm

There are previous chapters that explain the origins of Mithra, who believed in it, how long it thrived and so on. Here's a page just on the similarities between Mithra and Christianity:

http://www.atheist-community.org/mithra.htm

And a third site with some more information on Mithra, as well as some interesting info on Christianity:

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/mithraism.html
 
drwebpat,


Welocme to scieforums. Im kinda new myself actualy, I felt the same way you did when you discovered us.



About your question, Budda walked on water and had risen from the dead (before Jesus). I will try to find the link to the site, i stumbled on it quite some time ago.

Anyways, good to have you, have fun debating.
 
Originally posted by Kenresus
drwebpat,

About your question, Budda walked on water and had risen from the dead (before Jesus). I will try to find the link to the site, i stumbled on it quite some time ago.

Anyways, good to have you, have fun debating.
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Kenresus,


I heard, on the history channel, that the phrase "walked on the water" (or however it is in the bible) actually meant at the time "walked by the water." Kinda interesting...if I come across it I will post a link.

Pat
 
There have been so many mistranslations of the Bible there's no way to be sure what's right and what isn't. Take this for example:

"Paul mistook the Jewish "Messiah" to mean the Hellenistic "Christ". This happened before anything was written down; it happened during Paul's conversations with people as he was working through what had happened. A messiah is a person who is a great leader who leads your people to freedom. The title was taken by Jews from Persian culture. A christ is a god-king who dies as an offering to some divine being as a sacrifice in return for prosperity, especially agricultural prosperity. Both are anointed with oil as a mystical, sexual rite."
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Taken from the 3rd link I gave you. Personally I don't understand how Christians can put their faith into a badly mistranslated 2000 year old book and then criticize science as being a corrupt or unreliable practice.
 
Welcome to Sciforums Pat, is it okay for me to call you just Pat?

I heard, on the history channel, that the phrase "walked on the water" (or however it is in the bible) actually meant at the time "walked by the water." Kinda interesting...if I come across it I will post a link.
Click to expand...

I heard something like this to. The bible is full of mistranlations, but so would The Lord Of The Rings, if it was made 2000 years ago. Which is why you have to weed through it and find the truth for yourself... At least that's what I do.

/CounslerCoffee
 
Hey and welcome, I just found you tonight and so far its great! About the Mithira thing.........I did a project on how Christianity evolved from both the Roman and Egyptian religions last year and I did notice that much of the rituals and practices came from these two bases......however, its the teachings and life of Jesus that are most important and for the most part these are different. While Jesus lived a sinnless life, the ancient gods did many terrible things, and were just as sinful or worse than humans. Just one example to consider!
 
Originally posted by drwebpat
Not knowing many of the other religions of the world I really had no idea how many ideas the bible has taken from other religion's
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There are all sorts of parallels.

Life events shared by Osiris, Dionysus and Jesus
The following stories appear both in the Gospels and in the myths of many of the godmen: Conception: God was his father. This was believed to be literally true in the case of Osiris-Dionysus; their God came to earth and engaged in sexual intercourse with a human. The father of Jesus is God in the form of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18).
A human woman, a virgin, was his mother.

Birth: He was born in a cave or cowshed. Luke 2:7 mentions that Jesus was placed in a manger - an eating trough for animals. An early Christian tradition said that the manger was in a cave.
His birth was prophesized by a star in the heavens.

Ministry: At a marriage ceremony, he performed the miracle of converting water into wine.
He was powerless to perform miracles in his home town.
His followers were born-again through baptism in water.
He rode triumphantly into a city on a donkey. Tradition records that the inhabitants waved palm leaves.
He had 12 disciples.
He was accused of licentious behavior.

Execution, resurrection, etc: He was killed near the time of the Vernal Equinox, about MAR-21.
He died "as a sacrifice for the sins of the world." 1
He was hung on a tree, stake, or cross.
After death, he descended into hell.
On the third day after his death, he returned to life.
The cave where he was laid was visited by three of his female followers
He later ascended to heaven.

His titles: God made flesh.
Savior of the world.
Son of God.

Beliefs about the God-man: He is "God made man," and equal to the Father.
He will return in the last days.
He will judge the human race at that time.
Humans are separated from God by original sin. The godman's sacrificial death reunites the believer with God and atones for the original sin.


All of the Pagan myths had been circulating for centuries before Jesus birth (circa 4 to 7 BCE). It is obvious that if any copying occurred, it was the followers of Jesus incorporating into his biography the myths and legends of Osiris-Dionysus, not vice-versa.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa2.htm
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In short; pretty much everything.

~Raithere
 
Well, the Last Supper, baptism in water (as a form of initiation), and communion come to mind first. I'll have to search for that project and get back to you on that one!
 
I understand... Another thing that comes to mind is confessing Jesus with your mouth, which is kinda of an initiation too. But God didn't make it like that... those are pretty much human laws. You see, I wasn't considered a Christian until I had to recite with my pastor a scripture in the Bible. However, I was a Christian before, since a Christian told me that she found God within my music (I play piano). If God was within my music, He had to be within me first, wouldn't He!?

I think what really works is not those "rituals", but conscious choices that we make in our hearts... :)

Yeah... but my fellows here say that many other Christians do rituals and that they are wormg, but it seem that they don't realise that they themselves do rituals... :eek:
 
*wishes people would read his links*

From the second link I posted:

Mithra was:

*born of a virgin in a stable on the winter solstice--frequently December 25 in the Julian calendar (the emperor Aurelian declared December 25 to be the official birthday of Mithra, circa 270 CE)--attended by shepherds who brought gifts;
*worshiped on Sundays;
*shown with a nimbus, or halo, around his head;
*said to take a last supper with his followers when he returned to his father;
*believed not to have died, but to have ascended to heaven, whence it was believed he would return at the end of time to raise the dead in a physical resurrection for a final judgement, sending the good to heaven and the wicked to hell, after the world had been destroyed by fire;
*to grant his followers immortal life following baptism.

Followers of Mithra:

*followed a leader called a 'papa' (pope), who ruled from the Vatican hill in Rome;
*celebrated the atoning death of a savior who has resurrected on a Sunday;
*celebrated sacramenta (a consecrated meal of bread and wine), termed a Myazda (corresponding exactly to the Catholic Missa (mass), using chanting, bells, candles, incense, and holy water, in remembrance of the last supper of Mithra).
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well it would seem that I dont hafta find that project after all b/c the answer has already been posted for me!

I agree Truthseeker, rituals are not necessary, some (ie baptism) are more of a public way to announce your commitment to Christ. I personally didnt pray 'the sinners prayer' with anyone else until about 3 months after I became a christian, but I did pray it. I also haven't been baptized with water as yet (simply because I am trying to gauge how much persecution from my family will result from such a move), but that doesnt mean that God isn't in my life and i'm not a christian! However, rituals are a way for the human mind to comprehend the faith a bit more (ie communion, remembering the Last supper and Jesus's sacrifice)
 
"Mithras is the Roman name for the Indo-Iranian god Mitra, or Mithra, as he was called by the Persians. Mitra is part of the Hindu pantheon, and Mithra is one of several yazatas (minor deities) under Ahura-Mazda in the Zoroastrian pantheon. Mithra is the god of the airy light between heaven and earth, but he is also associated with the light of the sun, and with contracts and mediation. Neither in Hinduism nor in Zoroastrianism did Mitra/Mithra have his own cult. Mitra is mentioned in the Hindu Vedas, while Mithra is is the subject of Yashts (hymns) in the Zoroastrian Avesta, a text compiled during the Sassanian period (224-640 CE) to preserve a much older oral tradition."


"The origin of the cult of Mithra dates from the time that Hindus and Persians still formed one people, for the god Mithra occurs in the religion and sacred books of both races, i.e. in the Vedas and in the Avesta. ... After the conquest of Babylon (538 B.C.) this Persian cult came into contact with Chaldean astrology and with the national worship of Marduk. For a time the two priesthood of Mithra and Marduk coexisted in the capital and Mithraism borrowed much from this intercourse. ... This religion, in which the Iranian element remained predominant, came, after Alexander's conquest, in touch with the Western world. When finally the Romans took possession of the Kingdom of Pergamum (in 133 B.C.), occupied Asia Minor, and stationed two legions of soldiers on the Euphrates, the success of Mithraism was secured. It spread rapidly from the Bosphorus to the Atlantic, from Illyria to Britain. Its foremost apostles were the legionaries; hence it spread first to the frontier stations of the Roman army."

mithra
 
xelios

that is kinda mind blowing! i am aware facts could be embellished.
maybe even a few lies! but this is so blatant. i think it was chris who mentioned that jesus might have not existed but i did not really take that seriously. now with the mithra stuff.....?????
 
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There were so many similarities between Christianity and Mithraism that early Church Fathers such as Tertullian and Justin Martyr claimed that Satan had, in anticipation of the coming of Jesus Christ, created a false religion that shared many of the same rituals, traditions and beliefs in Christianity, concerning not only practices in worship but indentical traditions usually accredited to Jesus Christ such as the resurrection so that people would be tricked into believing that all Christianity was was a plagarisation of prior pagan beliefs. As absurd as this explanation is, it serves to show that Mithraism was not an plagarisation of Christianity but was there prior to Christianity.
Absurd...? If this "religion" is true at all, it is probably the best explanation... Satan's main strategy to create disbelief is exactly to spread lies. If you wanted someone not to believe in someone else, what would you do? Spread lies about that person? Of course!!

Also, it is erroneously claimed that there were never any written records of Mithraism but the reality of it is, is that most evidence of Mithraism was destroyed by the Christians including not only monuments and many other artifacts but many books by ancient authors, such as Eubulus, who had written many volumes on the history of Mithraism!

Also, another thing that proves that Mithraism was around before Christianity was the discovery of Mithraic remains beneath later Christian edifices on Vatican Hill.
I've never heard of "Mithraism". Could that be a lie? Hummmmm....
:rolleyes:

Also, it is erroneously claimed that there were never any written records of Mithraism but the reality of it is, is that most evidence of Mithraism was destroyed by the Christians including not only monuments and many other artifacts but many books by ancient authors, such as Eubulus, who had written many volumes on the history of Mithraism!
Oh really! Then why that site has so much information about it, I wonder...??:bugeye: :rolleyes:
 
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