Spanking Lowers IQ Points

[John99]

^ gtfooh.

so why is it legal for a parent to assault their child, but not a stranger? You know if someone came up to your misbehaving child and assaulted them with a 'swatting' you would see that the cops were called. Why should a parent be able to get away with the same assault?

for extreme incidents kids need to be spanked, unfortunately some will never learn anyway.

what do you do if you see your kid playing with matches or hitting a sibling?

really it is a matter of how destructive their behavior is.

 

[ripleofdeath]

(Q), it's more than evident that instead of psychoanalysing others, making ignorant presumptions about them, and their life, and taking things out of context, you should maybe rather focus on something more trivial ....

ripleofdeath, of course I am a product of that violence - I can't wait to beat, and rape my own offspring, and anybody else's offspring because that's what my parents taught me day by day, they literally told me that spanking and beating children is good, even though they pretended to regret it both times they spanked me, but I guess that was all just an act. /sarcasm
Yes yes...spanking = rape, sex. You're so right. Your insight on this subject is truly deep, and praiseworthy.
Now, ripleofdeath, and (Q)'s analysis, and predictions about me are truly interesting, and maybe I should even feel worried since they seem to confuse me with some psychopath, who is on the verge of going on a mass beating, and raping feast. I really feel worried about them, because they seem to be literally paranoid about such things. ripleofdeath, and (Q) seem to be the type of persons who'd confuse a scenario where the little brother helps the little sister to pee for an act of sexual assault.

Because it was made illegal because of people who whine about how bad physical violence is, Orleander. Simple as that.


http://snafu-ed.blogspot.com/2008/04/teacher-assaulted-in-classroom-video.html
http://www.examiner.com/a-604122~Twice_assaulted_teacher_calls_it_quits.html
http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/two-teens-assault-teacher-after-he-confiscates-ones-ipod/
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-164565711.html
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-19993603.html
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07064/766954-298.stm

Kids are smarter than you think. When they know that you're not allowed to physically defend yourself, they'll exploit it.
The non-violence policy for teachers in schools, for example, enables students with bad behaviour and poor grades to take advantage of the system.
The climate in schools used to be entirely different back in the days. I wonder why. Is it because of the parents hitting those kids? But back in the days..spanking was a common tool to discipline children, and it didn't seem to be all that bad; the young respected the elder..
Looks to me more like most children of today never learned their limits, and their position, and maybe are just generally unhappy with themselves (psychological factor) and that's why it's escalating. Honestly, I think that there are other, more important factors, than "parents spanking them" that make people turn into barbaric monsters.

By the way, did you know that there are also people out there who never ever got hit by their parents, but turned into violent monsters as they grew up, and assaulted their own parents, and all the comedy involved in family dramas? People who never got beat up by their parents, but use violence to discipline their children...Yeah, those people also exist.
You guys are acting as if getting spanked twice in a lifetime turns people into violence-hungry people. So f*cking naive.

Like, I beg to differ between spanking your kid once in a while for bad behaviour, and beating your child up whenever you feel like it, and need to vent.

Edit: And well, cluelusshusband, or whatever your username is. I really don't understand what your point is. You're bringing up extraordinary cases of children doing something wrong, and with this you want to justify that punishment should be abolished? Lets do it slightly different. I'll throw the question back at you. What would YOU do if your child would do that?

you need to be able to remove yourself from the situation and talk about the psychological dynamics.
unfortunately it appears you cant do that.

me me me me me me me me
is all i hear from you

 

[ripleofdeath]

for extreme incidents women need to be slapped in the face, unfortunately some will never learn anyway.

but i thought we were not allowed to beat our women anymore ?
we know some will never learn which is why we must slap them around

 

[NMSquirrel]

how many of you ppl have children?
i have one 23 (does 3 yrd old granddaughter count?)

im sorry for those of you who got beaten as a kid..im glad that you are aware of how much that extreme hurts..makes it easier to not pass it on to your kids..
but keep in mind the other extreme is just as bad..not doing anything to discipline your kids..does not teach self-control..

IF spanking is used as a tool and not an emotional state of being,then it would benifit the individual in the long run..
but as it stands ppl tend to focus on their emotional state of being more than they should and end up spanking their kids whenever they are mad..which does not teach self-control..that only teaches the kid expressing their anger by hitting is acceptable..

i think this is what the anti-spanking sector see's, so dissmisses the idea of spanking as tool..

 

[Tiassa]

Um ... well ... er ... hmph

but keep in mind the other extreme is just as bad..not doing anything to discipline your kids..does not teach self-control..

An excellent point, except ... well, who, exactly, is making such a proposal?

 

[John99]

but i thought we were not allowed to beat our women anymore ?
we know some will never learn which is why we must slap them around

for some reason you changed my quote. i realize it was an attempt to be clever but changing quotes to whatever you like is dishonest as well as being against forum rules.

if you said adults then that would have made more sense.

 

[Tiassa]

Mod Hat - Policy note

Mod Hat — Policy note

for some reason you changed my quote. i realize it was an attempt to be clever but changing quotes to whatever you like is dishonest as well as being against forum rules.

Correct. Manipulating quotes in that format is against the rules. Myself, I prefer to use an indent tag when making that point. For instance:

• • •​

for extreme incidents kids need to be spanked, unfortunately some will never learn anyway.

Let us consider that principle in general application:

"For extreme incidents women need to be slapped in the face. Unfortunately some will never learn anyway."​

But I thought we were not allowed to beat our women anymore?
We know some will never learn which is why we must slap them around.

• • •​

Makes the same point, doesn't misrepresent the original quote, and offers a context for re-examination (e.g., specific principle in general application).

About the only things one sacrifices are a few seconds and some artistic license that may well fall within the range of the extraneous.

As to dishonesty? That's a whole separate question.

Members should be aware that in some cases, the difference between what is permissible or not is often a fairly minor detail.

 

[John99]

member hat:

i have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Originally Posted by NMSquirrel
but keep in mind the other extreme is just as bad..not doing anything to discipline your kids..does not teach self-control..

My parents never punished me... they gave me guidence but i disiplined myself based on the good esample they set... an i gave bak what i got from them... trust respect an love.!!!

 

[Tiassa]

Mod Hat - Response

Mod Hat — Response

member hat:

i have no idea what you are talking about.

Then quit complaining.

Seriously, John, don't worry about it. I just ruled in your favor. Life goes on. Get over it. And don't muck up threads with that kind of useless crap. If you have a concern, you are welcome to contact me via private message.

• • •​

Update: Let ... me ... clear ... my ... throat.

(Ahem.)

To reiterate: If you have a concern, you are welcome to contact me via private message.

To make the point clear:

(1) Don't muck up threads in my jurisdiction by whining. If you have a concern, you are welcome to contact me by private message. If this is insufficient, take it up the ladder. But do not foul up the discussion with these kinds of distractions.

(2) I have suspended a member over this in the past. I will do so again, if necessary.

(3) This is a very stupid way to earn yourself a vacation.

(4) The current baseline suspension is three days. And it only goes up from there.​

Easy enough?

Good.

Thank you.

:wallbang:

 

[PsychoTropicPuppy]

you need to be able to remove yourself from the situation and talk about the psychological dynamics.
unfortunately it appears you cant do that.

me me me me me me me me
is all i hear from you

Then lets reiterate to whom your psychological analysis was referring to:

precisely Q & he is a product of that violence, nothing more nothing less.
stunted in his intellectual development incapable of defining or accepting there is another way to anything.

the cycle of violence continues.

Those are aggravating claims, and, in fact, completely beyond the point. You, and (Q) are insulting me, and my parents by throwing us into the "cycle of violence"...as if two spankings in a lifetime would amount to the kind of violence that would traumatise the ones on the receiving end.
But that's not where it stops, you two proceed even further with your witty predictions about what I will do with my own children. And then, it continues..you, ripleofdeath, are even involving rape into the "spanking lowers IQ thread" - are you implying that rape and violence against children are interconnected? I admit, the sentence formulation leaves a lot of space for interpretation, and just generally doesn't really make sense, at least to me. So maybe if you could elaborate on the following point you've made:

..however this is where the ego and pride of the parent is linked to violence and rape. sex is distorted and emotion is distorted and the 2 are mixed together...

ripleofdeath, if you've actually read through my posts, and understood the information, then you wouldn't be writing this:

..stunted in his intellectual development incapable of defining or accepting there is another way to anything...

I don't see where I denied that there are other ways, and forms of reprimanding children.

Unfortunately it appears to me, that you're incapable of properly processing the information at hand - reason why you produce one provocative and unsubstantiated claim after an other.

It's highly amusing to see that my post got edited for being insulting, but the bullsh*t claims about me, which are just as insulting, of you two are allowed to remain. Fine by me. I can live with that, because luckily (Q), and ripleofdeath's claims are all unsubstantiated, and more than naive. After all, they seem to think that getting hit once turns people into monsters who walk around with a belt, and are always up for a belting. Theoretically, that would mean that most of the population is extremely abusive towards their offspring. Because honestly, how many percentages of Earth's population did never ever get hit or slapped at least once by their parents?

Interestingly, one of my friends who had an abusive dad, REAL abusive, who would thrash her pretty badly for anything anytime has become a parent herself a few years ago, and honestly, she is one of the most caring mums I know. And I remember when I asked her if her dad's actions had any lasting effect on her...she would say "Yes, thanks to him I've set a goal up for me: I'll never ever use violence against my children. I don't want to become like my dad." - and hey, look at that, so far, I couldn't notice any bruises on her child, nor does she seem to be intellectually stunted.
Looks like not everybody turns into a child beater, no, quite contrarily it looks like it makes some of them strong pursuers of a non-violence policy - never to use excessive violence on their own kids.
Violence begetting violence? Not always the case. There are so many factors involved. How often, for what, how strongly, what method of corporal punishment, will an explanation follow after the spanking such as why it got spanked, and why what it did was wrong, and what it should do next time, or will it remain just at corporal punishment level, etc.
It's not just the beating that makes people join the "cycle of excessive violence", there are a lot of other factors involved.
Each case is as unique as the raising and the reasoning of the individual themselves. It's too complex and can't be scratched in the space allocated, at least not in the allotment defined by the sly remarks of two individuals in this thread.

Either way, maybe I shouldn't partake in the ongoing discussion in this thread any more, because it looks like the moderation here isn't exactly in my favours.

 

[Orleander]

...what do you do if you see your kid playing with matches or hitting a sibling?

really it is a matter of how destructive their behavior is.

seriously? You assault children to teach them hitting is wrong? :bugeye:

 

[jpappl]

seriously? You assault children to teach them hitting is wrong? :bugeye:

This may be a stupid question. But do you really believe, that telling a kid that they are going to get a spanking if they don't change the issue which is leading to that result. And then they continue to push the envelope, then they get one swat to the bottom, not a swat out of the blue with no warning, not a swat to the face or a punch to the ribs. But a " I warned you that if you didn't change the behavior that the next step would be a spanking" "so now you have forced me to do what I did not want to do" " go to room because your going to get a spanking" Then proceed to give them one swat to the bottom. IS ASSAULT ?

The point I made before was silly and intended to be so, but we might as well go straight to c-section only, no natural births when you consider the trauma a child is put through. Is having a baby considered assaulting a child ?

You can't reason with a 3 year old the same way you can with an older child. It seems to me that any spankings needed are only needed in the early years, as in my case, I haven't had the need, they know not to go there. But they did not know this at 2 or 3.

It's like saying we don't have to put criminals away, we can just reason with them.

Now, to be fair, I think that if you raise the child properly, as they get older and mature, they will be more reasonable anyway and spankings won't be needed either way. But I didn't want my 4 year old rolling on the ground in the grocery store. And an important point is that not all kids are the same. Some are harder to work with then others and in different ways.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

You can't reason with a 3 year old the same way you can with an older child. It seems to me that any spankings needed are only needed in the early years, as in my case, I haven't had the need, they know not to go there. But they did not know this at 2 or 3.

Sinse they cant understan "reason" at less than 3 year old... how bout puttin forth the time an effort to keep them out of harms way insted of hittin 'em.???

Now, to be fair, I think that if you raise the child properly, as they get older and mature, they will be more reasonable anyway and spankings won't be needed either way. But I didn't want my 4 year old rolling on the ground in the grocery store.

So did you raize you'r child properly... or did it "need" to be hit.???

 

[shorty_37]

So did you raize you'r child properly... or did it "need" to be hit.???

Mine both needed a couple of swats to the butt when toddlers. I have never needed to smack them since then. They got the message loud and clear and learned that I will not put up with bratty, uncontrollable behavior.

Both my kids are bright, very social, and athletic boys.

We went to Open House at my 8 yr old's school last night. I had to wait in line to talk to the teacher and overheard a lot of her conversations with other parents.
Most of the comments included that they don't listen in class, even though the teacher has had to talk to them about it repeatedly and have had to be kept in at recess because of it. I wonder how many of those kids have been spanked? :shrug:

My turn came and she had nothing to say other then he is doing GREAT and he is a pleasure. I have heard this kind of thing from teachers from both my kids since they started school. Hmmmmmm and I smacked them a couple times when they were young.

BAD BAD MOMMY!!! Throw me in jail for assault! :crazy:

 

[jpappl]

Sinse they cant understan "reason" at less than 3 year old... how bout puttin forth the time an effort to keep them out of harms way insted of hittin 'em.???



So did you raize you'r child properly... or did it "need" to be hit.???

That's what we did. Let them know through a variety of ways (taking away toys or other things they like, time outs etc) that if they kept it up, then they would get a spanking. The choice is theirs, they have to learn there are consequences.

We don't have kids that roll on the ground at the grocery store I can tell you that. 6 spankings between 2 kids 6 and 10 is not abuse.

Letting them grow up without teaching them to have some self control would be.

 

[jpappl]

Mine both needed a couple of swats to the butt when toddlers. I have never needed to smack them since then. They got the message loud and clear and learned that I will not put up with bratty, uncontrollable behavior.

That's the way I see it and have no need to apologize.

.

 

[shorty_37]

That's what we did. Let them know through a variety of ways (taking away toys or other things they like, time outs etc) that if they kept it up, then they would get a spanking. The choice is theirs, they have to learn there are consequences.

We don't have kids that roll on the ground at the grocery store I can tell you that. 6 spankings between 2 kids 6 and 10 is not abuse.

Letting them grow up without teaching them to have some self control would be.

It sounds like our kids were raised similarly. I have about 4-5 spankings between 2 kids who are 8 and 13 now. The last time I did it was when they were about 3. My kids, even when young used to look at the kids throwing tantrums in the stores or restaurants and used to think there was something wrong with them. They were as disgusted in the display as I was.

I think the parents who let their kids run the house and will back down when a toddler starts kicking them are the ones who are abusing them. It is those kids who enter kindergarten and think they can act the same as they do at home. They drive the teachers nuts and take their time away from the well behaved kids who have been raised with discipline and respect.

I was disgusted when I sat in on a kindergarten class to show the parents what was going on in the class. I talked to the teacher later and said you have your hands full. Some of these kids
were running around like wild animals and having tantrums when told to sit down and be quiet. I couldn't even imagine my kid acting like that.

Then we have to deal with these kids when they are teens........

That's the way I see it and have no need to apologize.

.

YES WE BETTER APOLOGIZE for having well behaved kids, because it makes the other parent's look stupid when their kids are acting like a bunch of barbarians.

 

[jpappl]

I think the parents who let their kids run the house and will back down when a toddler starts kicking them are the ones who are abusing them. It is those kids who enter kindergarten and think they can act the same as they do at home. They drive the teachers nuts and take their time away from the well behaved kids who have been raised with discipline and respect.

I agree. Some kids might be easier than others at that stage and may not need a spanking ever. My kids only needed a few and they were done.

Whether spanking or no spanking, you are right that not disciplining them when they are young is setting them up for problems later.

 

[shorty_37]

I agree. Some kids might be easier than others at that stage and may not need a spanking ever. My kids only needed a few and they were done.

Whether spanking or no spanking, you are right that not disciplining them when they are young is setting them up for problems later.

I admit I was pretty lucky. My kids were never that crazy, and usually listened and learned quite quickly right from wrong.

I am sure that some parents discipline their children and do everything right and the kid is still a brat. Some kids definitely are a lot more work then others.

I still go back to parents spending less and less time with their kids though. I don't think it helps the situation. With the longer maternity leaves, parents should be taking full advantage of staying home with their kids. There are parents though who have a baby and 2 months later they are throwing them in daycare. When all possible I think a parent should stay home through the baby/toddler yrs. If you are leaving a child in daycare from 7am-6pm everyday you are just letting strangers raise your child IMO. I never had my kids in daycare and although it took some sacrifice, I think it was well worth it.