Spanking Lowers IQ Points

[cluelusshusbund]

...the general concept of punishment is, IN MY EYES, that it was a deserved one, and not one given out of false reasons, or facts.

So, if I kick you in the balls, and if lex talionis would be applied in this case then it would be perfectly understandable, wouldn't it?

Punishment is understandable to those who thank punishment can be deserved... but what if you'r 10 year old son was caut hidein in the garage whare he intentonaly shot you'r nice elderly nabor in the leg wit a frinds BB gun while the nabor was settin on ther porch... woud you want you'r son to be shot in the leg wit a BB gun as his deserved punishment... or do you thank he jus deserves a whippin an/or som other forms of punishment.???

 

[PsychoTropicPuppy]

Punishment is understandable to those who thank punishment can be deserved... but what if you'r 10 year old son was caut hidein in the garage whare he intentonaly shot you'r nice elderly nabor in the leg wit a frinds BB gun while the nabor was settin on ther porch... woud you want you'r son to be shot in the leg wit a BB gun as his deserved punishment... or do you thank he jus deserves a whippin an/or som other forms of punishment.???

You don't have to take the "eye for an eye" comment literally.
But one thing is for sure...the kid deserves to get punished, because if he thinks that there are no consequences after having done such a stupid act, then chances are that he'll do it again because he knows...nothing will happen to him.
Other than that..it's hard to tell..it really depends on the child. Some are more likely to understand through suffering the same pain they've caused, while for some it suffices to talk to them about it.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

But one thing is for sure...the kid deserves to get punished...

What if a 15 year old bully had terrified an convienced you'r son that he was gonna put a fire-bomb in you'r car somday an you woud be killed if he didnt shoot the nabor wit the BB gun... an he woud also put the fire-bomb in you'r car if he tolt anybody about the threat/promise... woud you'r son still deserve punishment.???

 

[NMSquirrel]

What if a 15 year old bully had terrified an convienced you'r son that he was gonna put a fire-bomb in you'r car somday an you woud be killed if he didnt shoot the nabor wit the BB gun... an he woud also put the fire-bomb in you'r car if he tolt anybody about the threat/promise... woud you'r son still deserve punishment.???

i think this would be a matter of teaching your kids to communicate with you about issues in their life...
there are still consequences with the 10 yr olds actions as he did pull the trigger and still must be punished..the punishment is dependent on how your kid learns best..
The 15 yr old has to be held accountable also..

as far as getting spankings,this tends to be a last resort thing when i have tried everything else and only when the situation calls for it..(not when i am mad)

of course swats are another story..these are just one tap on the butt to get the childs attention..(mostly under 10 yr olds)

there are far more worse punishments than just getting a spanking..would you accept a spanking if it negated a more henious punishment?

 

[ripleofdeath]

and only when the situation calls for it

soo you admit you have no control and it is the situation that forces you to hit your child !

making an excuse for hitting a child is no different to making an excuse for raping a child.

one day you may realise that only you have absolute control of yourself and no one else.
until such time you will continue to blame circumstances and others for your choice to lose control and strike out at others.
even if it is in a frame that is considered publicly acceptable,
like in those countries where little 8 to 10 year old girls & boys are sold into the sex industry by their own family.

everything is normal, it just depends on your "type" of normal & everything has an excuse, it just depends on what excuse is good enough for you.

 

[Sock Puppy]

If spanking lowers IQ, do masochists get dumber over time?

 

[cluelusshusbund]

...there are far more worse punishments than just getting a spanking..would you accept a spanking if it negated a more henious punishment?

I see that you consider spankin to be a henious punishment... but you'r queston ant relevent as to whether punishment is deserved.!!!

Does a 1 year old deserve punishment if they poop on the carpet.???

 

[ripleofdeath]

If spanking lowers IQ, do masochists get dumber over time?

how old are these masochists and who do they have teaching them how to eat shit drink & talk ?

 

[Tiassa]

Bricks in a wall

If spanking lowers IQ, do masochists get dumber over time?

Why would this happen? Neither of the hypotheses I've seen in this thread would suggest that outcome. See also Rip's question. I admit it occurred to me, too.

• • •​

making an excuse for hitting a child is no different to making an excuse for raping a child.

Um, well, yeah, you see ... actually, there is. I mean, when was the last time you got in a fistfight and ended up getting your ass porked?

I mean, I realize the pro-violence crowd is actually being kind of funny, but it's also cruel to find amusement in genuine dysfunction. Any excuse they can find. Any reason they can invent. Whatever it takes, as long as they get to continue beating their children. I know.

So not to be a buzzkill, but let's leave that brand of comedy to them. I mean, really, the whole terrorism to make a kid shoot someone with a BB gun bit is almost ready for amateur night. Or, at least, to be stood in front of the brick wall.

 

[ripleofdeath]

Um, well, yeah, you see ... actually, there is. I mean, when was the last time you got in a fistfight and ended up getting your ass porked?

I mean, I realize the pro-violence crowd is actually being kind of funny, but it's also cruel to find amusement in genuine dysfunction. Any excuse they can find. Any reason they can invent. Whatever it takes, as long as they get to continue beating their children. I know.

So not to be a buzzkill, but let's leave that brand of comedy to them. I mean, really, the whole terrorism to make a kid shoot someone with a BB gun bit is almost ready for amateur night. Or, at least, to be stood in front of the brick wall.

i am speaking from a psychological trigger point where the person has control over themselves and then does not have control over themselves.
and
the consequential making excuses of their behaviour to validate an action post event.

the adults who hit their children do not think of the best option to teach the child, they do not think what is th best way to educate, they think only of their own need to lash out.
the most common thing you will find among these parents who hit is their ego problem and feeling of embarrassment in social situations where they feel the child has embarrassed them and where they feel the need to strike the child to get some ego back.

look into it
i have
i have been quietly monitoring it for some years.
the 2 go together
lack of self control
lack of control of (&) a healthy ego

the most common thing the parent will say is
"i dont know what to do"
and that is from the ones who actually think momentarily while the others just hit as an automatic response.

what percentage of date rape goes on in society ?
the experts say only about 5% is reported
date rape is predominantly teenage rape and would be even more under reported than middle age date rape.

but... again we draw back to the egos and self satisfaction of the adults trying to validate their own lack of thinking and this debate gets quashed because they cant stomach the reality of the discussion AND
they do not have the attention span to discus it in depth anyway.

 

[NMSquirrel]

ok mr death....

my history..

i was the youngest of two (sister was one yr older..)
mom didnt want me (sat in motel room and explained in detail how i was an accident) most all my life was filled with spankings for every little thing i did wrong (and sometimes when i was right..) usually with a belt or paddle and once with a piece of switchgrass..my sister could do no wrong...

anyway.. i grew up..had a daughter of my own..raised her by myself for all but 1 yr of her life..she got plenty of attention getting swats on her butt (not hard enough to hurt just to get her attention.and just one..)(spankings are more than one)..
she was only actually spanked twice in her life, once for destroying a dollhouse..(yes i will admit that was pry more me than her..)
the second was when she became completely unruly,beligerant,and disobediant..both those times were on the butt and not to cause damage but to make it hurt so she would remember...(she is 23 now and has never been like that ever again..)

i stress the butt part cause my mom used to get me just above the butt or on my legs..

if i had a chance to do those two over again,knowing what i know now..i would pry do it differently as i said it is a last option when discipline is required and i have since learned of better ways to do it..unfortunatly for other parents sometimes the knowledge is not there and when discipline is REQUIRED it is not better to do nothing at all than to spank..with this it becomes an issue of moderation as it can definately be abusive..i do not agree with the parent who use spanking as the default punishment, it has to be a last resort thing when discipline is required after all other options have failed..

 

[(Q)]

i do not agree with the parent who use spanking as the default punishment, it has to be a last resort thing when discipline is required after all other options have failed.

Beating children isn't discipline, it's violence. That's what the child learns.

If you can't come up with other options, then you haven't thought it through.

 

[ripleofdeath]

unfortunately for other parents sometimes the knowledge is not there and when discipline is REQUIRED it is not better to do nothing at all than to spank..

Mr Squirrel, you see here it is in a nutshell.
people "choose" to have kids then claim they are at wits end and don't know what to do or how to behave or how to look after these children.
free will !
who makes the choice ?
who has higher knowledge ?
who chooses violence against a choice of non violence ?
on and on i could go but if you dont get my point then no need for me to go on anyway.
you see it is all very well to say how hard it is for parents but parents CHOOSE to be parents.

the only ones not getting any choices or right to non violence is the children.
soo... while noting to what Q said as i agree with it
==========
(Q)
Beating children isn't discipline, it's violence. That's what the child learns.

If you can't come up with other options, then you haven't thought it through.
==========

why is it that parents are not forced to undergo education for being apparent and certain measures of stress testing and methods of coping with stress and disobedient children?
why is it that all this is only done after the fact and after the child has been beaten and abused, raped or killed ?

its all ass about face and all for the selfish ego of the parents.

how pathetic !

i commend you on your self analysis and ability to realise where you have erred and where yo can better yourself and direct yo to your position of grand parent where you can and should pass on this knowledge to your own children to complete the cycle of education.

 

[PsychoTropicPuppy]

So the actual problem at hand is that there are people who have no self-control over their actions, and therefore spanking children should be banned as it apparently lowers the IQ of the spanked individual because slapping the buttocks of a child obviously does have those unpleasant side-effects on its brain capacity.

What I understand from this thread is that people like to put spanking a child on the same pedestal with beating a child up to a whinging piece of meat. Yeah. Spanking is a violent act. It humiliates the poor child, and then it will grow up with a Mommy complex and as a consequence it will, in its adulthood, beat women, and children alike into a pulp. Poor child. Of course, spanking, or slapping your child every once in a while as a form of punishment for something bad the child did, such as breaking your vase on purpose, or any other manipulative trick to get what he wants (attention, toy, w/e) used by this little cheeky smartass child, is, indeed, a pure act of violence and should be banished, and whoever likes to discipline their child via spanking should be sent to jail, and butt-raped by his fellow jail comrades because he f*cking deserves it that motherf*cker who abused his child because of too much spanking. Aye aye aye..

Sarcasm aside, spanking your child is of course not something that should be used anytime, anywhere just because you feel like it. As NMSquirrel pointed out, it should be a last option, and believe it or not...sometimes it's the only option to make your child listen. Because, yes, I was a cheeky bastard child a few years ago, and I wouldn't listen to what my parents say..the only thing that would make me listen when I was angry, or being, well, a bastard, was the fear from physical pain...mostly just threatening me to beat me with a belt sufficed to make me listen, or stop whatever I was doing. Just words just didn't have that same effect....especially when you're a child that doesn't see, or doesn't want to accept, respect the difference in intelligence, knowledge, experience between a child and an adult. *cough*

It's okay..I only received a nice belt whipping twice in my life, and it worked wonders. And so far, I can't say that I developed into a violent type who'd have anger issues, and would beat the sh*t out of someone, or who plans on abusing his children..
It didn't have any lasting effect on me. As in..side-effects..I quickly forgot about the spanking, but also learned from it..I never did that what I did again. But you know what had a lasting effect on me? The psychological bullying of my dad...it certainly didn't help me with my depressive little self, and existential issues.
Physical pain..those wounds heal, and unless you have a hurting scar, or anything went wrong with the healing process you'll eventually forget about having ever been hurt there(like I had a broken arm, it healed up, and now I can barely remember which arm was actually hurt)..but the woundings to our mind, heart...don't heal that fast and easily. Somehow they seem to be deeply engraved in our memory, and casual situations in life can...remind us of them, and make us live through them again as if it happened just yesterday..

Basically, parents who play stupid psychological games with their children..suck just as much as parents who beat their children. The problem is with the former is that there aren't any physical evidences contrarily to the bruises on a child's body with abusive parents..

Bah..

 

[(Q)]

...this little cheeky smartass child...

If that's how you feel about children, the problem is clearly you.

...sometimes it's the only option to make your child listen.

No, it isn't. It is the only option available for parents who aren't interested in pursuing other options.

Because, yes, I was a cheeky bastard child a few years ago, and I wouldn't listen to what my parents say..the only thing that would make me listen when I was angry, or being, well, a bastard, was the fear from physical pain...

And, that is exactly what you learned and that is exactly what you'll pass on to your kids if you don't stop to think about it.

....especially when you're a child that doesn't see, or doesn't want to accept, respect the difference in intelligence, knowledge, experience between a child and an adult.

Clearly, the issues leading up to this point were dealt with violence, hence you learned nothing but that. How can you respect someone who beats you?

It's okay..I only received a nice belt whipping twice in my life, and it worked wonders.

No, it isn't okay. You will now pass along that violence to your children.

And so far, I can't say that I developed into a violent type who'd have anger issues, and would beat the sh*t out of someone, or who plans on abusing his children..

Yes, you have and yes, you will.

It didn't have any lasting effect on me.

Clearly, it did have lasting effects.

Somehow they seem to be deeply engraved in our memory, and casual situations in life can...remind us of them, and make us live through them again as if it happened just yesterday..

No shit, Sherlock. Funny how you just claimed it didn't have lasting effects, somehow.

Basically, parents who play stupid psychological games with their children..suck just as much as parents who beat their children.

Fair enough. But, then there are those parents who do neither, or did that even occur to you?

Bah..

Agreed.

 

[ripleofdeath]

Clearly, the issues leading up to this point were dealt with violence, hence you learned nothing but that. How can you respect someone who beats you?

precisely Q & he is a product of that violence, nothing more nothing less.
stunted in his intellectual development incapable of defining or accepting there is another way to anything.

the cycle of violence continues.


children who are taught by their own parents that violence is a tool to control the undesirable behaviour of others do the species a disservice.

however this is where the ego and pride of the parent is linked to violence and rape. sex is distorted and emotion is distorted and the 2 are mixed together.

the main problem is this cycle of retardation.
it starts from the moment the child is born and violence and emotional manipulation is used ti stunt the childs education to always be inferior to the adult until such time as the child is no longer living in the same place.

if an alien species were to evaluate the basic family function they would likely define the human species as having an inbreed psychological illness with sadomasochistic tendencies and they would be quite correct.

 

[Orleander]

so why is it legal for a parent to assault their child, but not a stranger? You know if someone came up to your misbehaving child and assaulted them with a 'swatting' you would see that the cops were called. Why should a parent be able to get away with the same assault?

 

[PsychoTropicPuppy]

(Q), it's more than evident that instead of psychoanalysing others, making ignorant presumptions about them, and their life, and taking things out of context, you should maybe rather focus on something more trivial ....

ripleofdeath, of course I am a product of that violence - I can't wait to beat, and rape my own offspring, and anybody else's offspring because that's what my parents taught me day by day, they literally told me that spanking and beating children is good, even though they pretended to regret it both times they spanked me, but I guess that was all just an act. /sarcasm
Yes yes...spanking = rape, sex. You're so right. Your insight on this subject is truly deep, and praiseworthy.
Now, ripleofdeath, and (Q)'s analysis, and predictions about me are truly interesting, and maybe I should even feel worried since they seem to confuse me with some psychopath, who is on the verge of going on a mass beating, and raping feast. I really feel worried about them, because they seem to be literally paranoid about such things. ripleofdeath, and (Q) seem to be the type of persons who'd confuse a scenario where the little brother helps the little sister to pee for an act of sexual assault.

Because it was made illegal because of people who whine about how bad physical violence is, Orleander. Simple as that.


http://snafu-ed.blogspot.com/2008/04/teacher-assaulted-in-classroom-video.html
http://www.examiner.com/a-604122~Twice_assaulted_teacher_calls_it_quits.html
http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/25/two-teens-assault-teacher-after-he-confiscates-ones-ipod/
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-164565711.html
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-19993603.html
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07064/766954-298.stm

Kids are smarter than you think. When they know that you're not allowed to physically defend yourself, they'll exploit it.
The non-violence policy for teachers in schools, for example, enables students with bad behaviour and poor grades to take advantage of the system.
The climate in schools used to be entirely different back in the days. I wonder why. Is it because of the parents hitting those kids? But back in the days..spanking was a common tool to discipline children, and it didn't seem to be all that bad; the young respected the elder..
Looks to me more like most children of today never learned their limits, and their position, and maybe are just generally unhappy with themselves (psychological factor) and that's why it's escalating. Honestly, I think that there are other, more important factors, than "parents spanking them" that make people turn into barbaric monsters.

By the way, did you know that there are also people out there who never ever got hit by their parents, but turned into violent monsters as they grew up, and assaulted their own parents, and all the comedy involved in family dramas? People who never got beat up by their parents, but use violence to discipline their children...Yeah, those people also exist.
You guys are acting as if getting spanked twice in a lifetime turns people into violence-hungry people. So f*cking naive.

Like, I beg to differ between spanking your kid once in a while for bad behaviour, and beating your child up whenever you feel like it, and need to vent.

Edit: And well, cluelusshusband, or whatever your username is. I really don't understand what your point is. You're bringing up extraordinary cases of children doing something wrong, and with this you want to justify that punishment should be abolished? Lets do it slightly different. I'll throw the question back at you. What would YOU do if your child would do that?

 

[iceaura]

Kids are smarter than you think. When they know that you're not allowed to physically defend yourself, they'll exploit it.

Some will. Most won't.

The ones who will, tend to come from homes in which they are spanked with fair frequency, in my own observation.

The world seems to have a lot of people in it who think that the only way to get people to behave is to punish them if they don't. That doesn't make as much sense as the familiarity of it lends in appearance.

 

[Tiassa]

Mod Hat - Damn it!

Mod Hat — Damn it!

"It Doesn't Show (Umfanté)", by Tommy Shaw

Calm.
I must be calm.
I shall will the shaky hands to be still.
My racing heart must keep
Its urgent message to itself,
For no one would understand.

Insanity.
The world moves in slow motion.
I must express these thoughts
So bursting to be born
That my skin might split open,
My every thought rushing out
Only to be infinitely recycled
Like a fountain in an office building's lobby.

Peace.
I know no peace
When my stream of consciousness
Becomes a tidal wave,
Ready to wash away lives and property
Long believed to be safely bolted
To stone foundations on high ground.

Security.
My mind is a killing machine,
In remission only for as long as it takes
To create a false sense of safeness
For the grazing Zen herd.

A coyote,
So quiet and interesting
It has been accepted as a pet;
Allowed in the house with the cat
And the children.

A snake,
Sleeping in the sun,
So hypnotic and seductive,
Because it has never coiled, or rattled.

I look in the mirror,

And it doesn't show.​

Policy note: At present, one of the obvious suggestions we might make to one another, that a person's reading comprehension may be wanting, is considered off-limits. This policy is vaguely established, and I have inquired directly with the administration and my fellow moderators on the subject. The membership will, of course, be advised of any specific result that may arise from that discussion, but in the meantime, as I have started enforcing this rule—and, therefore, must enforce it consistently—I would ask members to refrain from stating what might seem obvious to them on certain occasions. Until this question is more specifically resolved, such offenses can be counted as subject to sanction.

Incident note: No sanctions undertaken on this occasion. I would simply ask members to please be aware.

General note: Calm is the watchword today. I suppose I could have quoted a different song, but I like this one since I get to point out that in addition to Mr. Shaw, the vocal talent on this one includes Ted Nugent, Angie Dickinson, and Marina Sirtis. Go figure. So come on, please? Calm. You know, relax, don't do it? Oh, hey, there's another song. But then someone would have to slap me for propagating that monstrosity.

Anyway, this thread is becoming a mess, and the difference between surgery and butchery is my attitude going into the cutting. So everybody take a deep breath, let go of the cold, spiky emotions, and let us move forward with something more productive. Please know that the moderator is aware, and I'm calling for a general reset. If I have to perform either surgery or butchery, I'll just dump this one down the sewer, instead.

Easy enough?

Good.

Thank you.