Hay RandWolf... do you have any scientifec evidence that slappin a kids face is ever a good thang.???
No. The only possibility that comes to mind would be a child biting and holding on - and it would probably be a mistake in that it was a reflex more than a calculated punishment. Happy?
A study in suport of both sides has been presented (big surprize... lol)... but the anecdotes from both sides have been quite instructive...
Yes - I know - Orly provided one, I provided 8 to refute. I believe someone (Shorty?) mentioned some sort of TV documentation. None of these were followed up, the thread may as well have been opened with "Is it a good thing to spank your kids? Any comments?" You would have gotten the same results...
an you gave plenty of anecdotal evidence you'rself... includin how you raized Wolfs... LOL.!!!
Yes, the discussion drifted over to animal behavior mentioned by myself and another poster (sorry, forget who now). This was in a misguided attempt to correlate
some facets of animal training with that of young children. I believe you had a bit of a problem with comprehension during that part of the discussion, and Orly made it clear to the other poster that "This thread is not about dogs". It's her thread, so I stayed away from this side of the argument. I still believe there are valid parallels that can be drawn from animal training to young children, but apparently that's a topic for another thread.
Below is snips from the post you refered to earlier... an you have said that you only advocate hittin a child when thers a clear an present danger... well in the story you present below... you hit her after the threat of danger had passed :bugeye:
This is an out and out lie, not to mention a cross post from another thread. You really do appear to have some reading comprehension issues. Plus, it would be polite to actually
quote my post about which you are making these allegations. Here, read it again carefully.
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2385015&postcount=99
Randwolf said:
Two instances I do recall:
S is about 4, maybe 5 years old. She has been told about fire, and has been burned on a stove before by touching a red hot burner...
One morning I was ironing a shirt to prepare for an important meeting while S looked on. All was well until she asked "Why do you do that to your shirt?" I told her that the iron took away the wrinkles, and even showed her how the wrinkles went away when the iron was pressed over them. I set the iron up to turn the shirt over and my daughter started to read for it (the bottom of the flat iron).
I yelled, which made her jump, and withdraw her hand. She then asked "Why can't I touch it daddy?" I told her it was very hot and would burn her. She replied, "No, it's not, it is not red, the stove gets red when its hot." She then started to reach for it again.
Now here is where the "assault" came in...
I grabbed her wrist, slapped her hand, and yelled "NO!"
Yes it was you who peaked her interest in the hot iron... an when she demonstrated that she didnt fully understan what hot ment... that woud have been the perfect time to esplane to her that thangs dont have to be red to be hot... ther was no clear an present danger... an hittin her an makin her cry was totaly unnecesary.!!!
Notice that there was "clear and present danger":
"She then started to reach for it again.
Now here is where the "assault" came in...
I grabbed her wrist, slapped her hand, and yelled "NO!""
Now realize a couple of things that may have escaped your notice the first time through. In this situation, you have maybe one second to react. She attempted to touch an extremely hot steam iron twice. I tried startling her, which put a momentary stop to her hand motion, but she never lowered her hand, so she is now about 4" from the surface. As her hand began to move again, for whatever reason... I don't even care if you want to say I should have handled the first part of the incident in some other way.
My question for you, Clueluss, is this:
Put yourself in this position - your child's hand is 4" from a very hot, very dangerous steam iron. You already know that you can't stop her hand moving by startling her with your voice. What do you do? You now have 1/2 of one second to decide... Aww, time's up while you read those last 9 words - too late...
Not exactly a time or place for a nice, warm, intelligent conversation with a 4 year old, hmmm, Clueluss?
So what do you do? Grab the iron out of the way? Maybe you trust your coordination enough to grab the handle without moving the iron forward in the slightest and snag it back out of range - I don't. See, my primary consideration is
stopping my daughter from being burned, perhaps seriously! Now this is a feeling you have never experienced, never in your life. Just like you have never seen your (older) child cry out "Help, I'm drowning" or watch her go over the edge of a ski slope. (Thank God for the ledge that was there about four foot down) You have no f8cking idea, and don't start whining about the babysitting again. You just don't know - period.
Anyway, I chose, in that 1/2 second, to slap her hand out of the way and physically grab her up off the floor while turning away from the iron. Yes, all that commotion made her cry. However, she wasn't crying an hour later because her "hand burned so bad", "daddy, please make it stop". I'm sorry, buddy, but you really are, literally "Clueluss" about this kind of stuff. It's not your fault, you never had kids. Fine, but stop trying to be an authority on something you're not, stop insulting people by implying that you could do a better job of raising their kids than they did and stop telling me that I made a wrong decision in the half second available to me. It's ludicrous that this should have to be broken down like this for anyone, but I guess some people...
Now, to continue on with the story... I of course turned the iron off, and devoted my attention to my daughter. Rocking her, and telling her "it's OK baby", etc. till she calmed down. You see, Clueless, she wasn't crying from being "abused", or from the pain of her hand being slapped. She was
scared. Precisely the reaction that needs to be instilled in everyone, at some level, regarding fire.
Anyway, by this time, the iron had cooled.
Now I had the opportunity for "show and tell", on top of the conversation we had already had. I turned the iron on very low, explained to her that it would start to warm up very quickly, and let her touch it. Guess what? After about 5 seconds, she yanked her hand back - no burn. Her reaction? A giggle... And we lived happily ever after...
Bottom line? Faced with the same situation, same circumstances, I
would do the exact same thing again! Oh, and then, if it happened again with yet another child, guess what? I would do it again.
You see, this is why this thread is not going to go anywhere. You have a pretty clear division amongst parents and non-parents, with a few dissenters on both sides of course. The parents are going to keep saying the same thing, as are the armchair philosophers whom have never faced any of this crap. No possibility for consensus, and unless I missed it, no converts either way. For example, I just took the time to spell out in great detail for you the "incident with the hot iron". I have taken more time to explain this to you in multiple threads than the whole issue with my daughter took, and she was only four or five. But you know what? She got it. You won't.
Now don't bother replying with any more questions, because I have no desire to waste any further time with you over this. I have done my best to explain everything, and I wouldn't have answered this post accept for the out and out lie that you threw in. Stop lying, and go find something else to do. Good day.
