Spanking Lowers IQ Points

[weed_eater_guy]

See, I know it works out in some cases that the parent can just "reason with" a kid, but that philosophy bugs me because, well, I don't think most kids can be reasoned with on that level. Negotiating with them is not like negotiating with an adult, they are missing quite a bit of experience and mental faculty for reasoning like that to work. I'm glad some people have been successfully raised without that kind of assertiveness, but I see so many of my generation today who could've probably benefited from an authority figure setting them in their place, curbing their sense of entitlement, etc. They're the ones who crave tons of attention because, when they stammered and screamed at mommy in the cereal isle, mommy gave them their cookies-posing-as-cereal. Or, trying to be assertive, they let their kids scream and scream and scream, instilling in the kid that that is uncorrected and hence acceptable behavior to do that in a social setting.

I had this talk with a friend of mine who was spanked growing up. His dad would give him the one-warning rule. If you mess up (scream at mommy), you get a warning, and maybe an attempted "reasoning with", such as "finish the stuff at home and we'll get some next time". If you keep messing up, you get your ass dragged out to the car and get told you'll get a spankin when you get home. And ya know what? It worked! He's a very cool guy, has alot of fun, socially well-adjusted, everything because it wasn't strict limits he grew up with (not by a long-shot, haha) but the strict ENFORCEMENT of those limits that shaped his behavior, and ultimately, let him develop self-control, and since he knew where the bounds were, may have had more self-confidence in the social field.

My dad also spanked me. His justification was that when you grow up, alot of the punishments you'd endure for screwing up are much, much harsher then a strong word and a sting to the behind. I mean, he's right. I pick a fight on the playground, I get a whoppin. If I did that now, police would be involved! More mildly, if I bitched about the cereal now (or a new computer with my girlfriend, or a raise from my boss, etc.), I risk serious damage to my career, social life, financial situation, etc. I'd take that childhood spakin and a minute-long lecture any day compared to foolishly ruining what I have now.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

See, I know it works out in some cases that the parent can just "reason with" a kid, but that philosophy bugs me because, well, I don't think most kids can be reasoned with on that level. Negotiating with them is not like negotiating with an adult, they are missing quite a bit of experience and mental faculty for reasoning like that to work.

I thank mos people dont understan it because they didnt esperience it... but as far bak as i can remenber... i was never disrespected wit bein hit or hollered at by my parents... an of course a very young child cant be reasoned wit... but they do learn by the esample ther parents set... an from day 1 all i knew was love an respect from my parents an thats perty much what they received in return.!!!

...I see so many of my generation today who could've probably benefited from an authority figure setting them in their place, curbing their sense of entitlement, etc. They're the ones who crave tons of attention because, when they stammered and screamed at mommy in the cereal isle, mommy gave them their cookies-posing-as-cereal. Or, trying to be assertive, they let their kids scream and scream and scream, instilling in the kid that that is uncorrected and hence acceptable behavior to do that in a social setting.

Yes those parents have alredy missed the boat an them an ther kids both suffer for it.!!!

I was a wild an crazy an hapy kid but it didnt even cross my mind to throw a tantrun... much less in a grocery store... lol.!!!

I had this talk with a friend of mine who was spanked growing up. His dad would give him the one-warning rule. If you mess up (scream at mommy), you get a warning, and maybe an attempted "reasoning with", such as "finish the stuff at home and we'll get some next time". If you keep messing up, you get your ass dragged out to the car and get told you'll get a spankin when you get home.

Yeah... i emagine that stuff is perty common... im glad i skiped it an spent time doin other stuff.!!!

And ya know what? It worked! He's a very cool guy, has alot of fun, socially well-adjusted, everything because it wasn't strict limits he grew up with (not by a long-shot, haha) but the strict ENFORCEMENT of those limits that shaped his behavior, and ultimately, let him develop self-control, and since he knew where the bounds were, may have had more self-confidence in the social field.

Hmmm... well mayb he was borned wit bad genes an hittin him was the only way to get thru to him... ie... he mite not have responded well to love an respect.!!!

My dad also spanked me. His justification was that when you grow up, alot of the punishments you'd endure for screwing up are much, much harsher then a strong word and a sting to the behind. I mean, he's right. I pick a fight on the playground, I get a whoppin. If I did that now, police would be involved! More mildly, if I bitched about the cereal now (or a new computer with my girlfriend, or a raise from my boss, etc.), I risk serious damage to my career, social life, financial situation, etc. I'd take that childhood spakin and a minute-long lecture any day compared to foolishly ruining what I have now.

Yep... i didnt get lectures... not even short lectures... lol... an mayb its amazin that i didnt pick fights or cause serous damage to my career social life or financial situaton or get in trouble wit the police... an maybe you was jus anuther kid wit bad genes that needed to get hit so you wooud know how to behave properly :shrug:

 

[Watcher]

Psychologists are useless and they interfere in schools, families....etc . I am sure the world was happier before all these psychology theories .

While I completely agree that the "spanking affects IQ" study seems to be based on pure conjecture, to conclude that "psychologists are useless" uses exactly the same lack-o-logic.

Psychology is one of the most important and potentially world-changing disciplines, but it is also the most difficult science to master. In other words, psychologists will fail for decades and centuries before human consciousness is well understood. I am more than amazed by your statement that "psychologists are useless". Do you really mean that?

 

[cluelusshusbund]

"They're the ones who crave tons of attention..."

Prolly few kids receive the amount of positive attenton which instills respectful behavior as a way of family life... an i thank a child who trusts ther parents willl be less likely to be picky eaters;;; mom woud tell how i loved brussell sprouts when i was very young... an that i liked to peal the outer leafs off an eat 'em 1 at a time... lol... when mom said "its ready"... we cam a runnin an enjoyed what was served... ther was no such thang as bein forced to eat somptin... lol... or to tell mom... i dont want this... fix me somptin else... LOL.... nope... meal time was a special fun time... not an occasion for moanin an groanin an hollerin an threats an punishments.!!!

 

[Psyche]

Most spankings on a toddler's butt through a diaper doesn't cause physical pain. Mine were more upset with the fact that Mommy got so mad that it got to that. Kids want to make their parent's happy and when they see you are disappointed in them, it upsets them, at least that is how my kid's are. They are good kids and I treat them very well but they know when I am upset and disappointed in them and they feel really bad when that happens.

As a thought experiment, imagine two grown adults in a room, adult A doesn’t like the tone of voice of adult B and proceeds to forcibly hit adult B on their buttocks. In such an instance nobody would have trouble recognizing the act as sexual, physical, and emotional abuse. Now, imagine that adult B is gradually getting younger, smaller, and more helplessly dependant before our very eyes. At what point would you say the person is young enough that what is obviously a humiliating violation of adult B turns into solid “discipline” or “upbringing” of the now, child B?

Considering the occasional spanker's here seem to have well behaved, respectful kids....I don't see any harm was done and this whole guilt trip just isn't going to work.

Some of the most inwardly tortured children alive are “well behaved, and respectful”. I myself was one of them. Implicit in your comment is the misconception that that being a good kid entails being obedient to authority. However, as you said yourself, children are very sensitive to the emotions of their parents, so their naturally going to try to avoid disappointing them, but to simply manipulate them into behaving in a way that is pleasing to you is not teaching them right from wrong, it’s merely teaching them to avoid getting attacked.

Most, if not all, of the negative mentalities attributed to children (lazy, selfish, temperamental, disrespectful etc.) and young people are only logical behavioral consequences of living with irrational adults who taught them, through their behavior (of which words compare insubstantially) to act in such a way. In such an environment, the only way to avoid getting attacked is to kill ones true self and true emotions, thereby pleasing their parents for their good behavior and “respectful” attitude. But the lesson that is stored in their bodies that their parents made them scream and sob by spanking them doesn’t simply go away even if the damage isn't, to the parents for obvious reasons, visible.

I asked my kids recently if they remember the few times they were spanked and they don't even remember. One of my son's remember one time vaguely. If they were abused or assaulted they would surely remember.

Confronting the fact that your own parents actively humiliated you as a child is so difficult that most people would rather die than do it. The example that your children don’t remember is evidence of dissociation and repression. Certain emotions are too difficult to deal with consciously, especially when you are still a dependant, so that children learn how to repress them. It's the domestic corollary of Stockholm syndrome. Add on that everywhere in mainstream culture and media the children are always blamed and parents are always defended. When children realize this, that their perspective has no validity, they have no option but to dissociate.

I remember exactly what the belt my mom used looks like all these yrs later. I remember getting hit for stupid things. I remember getting hit a hell of a lot more
then a couple of times. I could call what she did abuse and I remember it well.

If you truly worked through and healed from the trauma you experienced as a child, you would not be able to conceive of hitting your children. People who were not abused in childhood have no desire, and no capacity to humiliate anyone, much less children, much less their own. Their is nothing that a kid can do that can warrant physical attack, and the fact that they are sentenced to live with the guilt of being responsible for their own abuse makes it far more damaging. "Spanking" and a number of other methods parents use to "discipline" their children is a symptom of very low self-esteem in the parents.

I'd highly reccomend reading Alice Miller. Her book, The Drama of the Gifted Child, is full of the type of revelation you won't hear from mainstream psychologists and analysts (Dr. Phil anyone?) who actively protect adults and minimize the suffering of the children.

 

[Orleander]

...If you truly worked through and healed from the trauma you experienced as a child, you would not be able to conceive of hitting your children. People who were not abused in childhood have no desire, and no capacity to humiliate anyone, much less children, much less their own. Their is nothing that a kid can do that can warrant physical attack, and the fact that they are sentenced to live with the guilt of being responsible for their own abuse makes it far more damaging. "Spanking" and a number of other methods parents use to "discipline" their children is a symptom of very low self-esteem in the parents....

AGREED!!!! :bravo::worship:

 

[Ellie]

People who were not abused in childhood have no desire, and no capacity to humiliate anyone, much less children, much less their own. Their is nothing that a kid can do that can warrant physical attack, and the fact that they are sentenced to live with the guilt of being responsible for their own abuse makes it far more damaging. "Spanking" and a number of other methods parents use to "discipline" their children is a symptom of very low self-esteem in the parents....

Not all the time. It depends on the kid too. I think a spanking to set a kid straight is better than prison. Does it always work? no, but i am sure it has worked on billions of occasions.

 

[Orleander]

Not all the time. It depends on the kid too. I think a spanking to set a kid straight is better than prison. Does it always work? no, but i am sure it has worked on billions of occasions.

LOL, I bet you my first born child that a vast majority of the people in prison were assaulted as a child...billions of times. LOL

 

[jpappl]

LOL, I bet you my first born child that a vast majority of the people in prison were assaulted as a child...billions of times. LOL

Wasn't spanking the prevelant way to discipline a young child for the last 1000 years.

Since spanking seems to be on the way out and prison rates are rising it indicates the opposite.

Of course I am not suggesting the two have anything to do with each other

 

[Psyche]

Not all the time. It depends on the kid too. I think a spanking to set a kid straight is better than prison. Does it always work? no, but i am sure it has worked on billions of occasions.

You do not solve a problem caused by a total absence of empathy with the total absence of empathy. If the desire is to "correct" the behavior, than you are revealing a lack of curiosity about what is going on in the soul (I use this term metaphorically) of that human being, and instead treating them as malfuntioning property that needs to be fixed. Alot of attitudes towards child raising are rooted in centuries old pedagogy that simply doesn't corrolate with reaity, but my understanding is that it stems from a lack of empathy that parents have for themselves when they were children, so unconsciosly spanking is really just them acting out in revenge. Let's face it, throughought history animals and children, helpless as they are, have had it far worse on the whole than even woman or blacks, and we still have a long way to go.

 

[Orleander]

Wasn't spanking the prevelant way to discipline a young child for the last 1000 years.

Since spanking seems to be on the way out and prison rates are rising it indicates the opposite.

Of course I am not suggesting the two have anything to do with each other

hmmm, I figured more people were in prison because there were more people on the planet and better scientific evidence gathering. :shrug:

 

[jpappl]

Let's face it, throughought history animals and children, helpless as they are, have had it far worse on the whole than even woman or blacks, and we still have a long way to go

What ? maybe you could back this with some statistics, evidence etc.

In which way are you suggesting they have had it worse than the adults at any given time and place.

The children may feel the effects of say parents losing their jobs and not being able to feed the family, but they don't feel all of those things that only parents can feel. How do you think the parents feel about not being able to feed their kids.

Please explain.

Furthermore, I like many were spanked to hell as a kid when I did something really bad. Not once did I ever feel like I was being abused, in fact I knew what the punishment would be and chose to do it in error. If I didn't get punished I wouldn't have had the same respect for the boundary.

Kids need boundaries and you can chose a variety of means to place those boundaries and as we found out in this thread, other than spanking there were not any better options. Just trading physical punishment with mental punishment. Chose your poisin. Remember, at any point that the boundary is reached it represents failure. There are no good options, only choices of bad options.

 

[jpappl]

hmmm, I figured more people were in prison because there were more people on the planet and better scientific evidence gathering. :shrug:

Percentage of people, of course the number is higher as the population grows, but what are the percentages.

I think that more people percentage wise are engaged in activity that easily lands them in prison. Selling drugs on the street for example.

We rarely get the main guys, but there are alot more foot soldiers and they are easily picked off.

Of all these people in prison or going, do you think that spanking or no spanking has anything to do with it ?

 

[Ellie]

. Let's face it, throughought history animals and children, helpless as they are, have had it far worse on the whole than even woman or blacks, and we still have a long way to go.

well too many people forget that children are actually people. you cannot just treat them all exactly the same. i am not a disciplinarian at all but for some kids a spanking would do them more good than harm.

 

[Orleander]

well too many people forget that children are actually people. you cannot just treat them all exactly the same. i am not a disciplinarian at all but for some kids a spanking would do them more good than harm.

yes, they are people. If you went and assaulted a total stranger, you would get arrested and end up in jail. For some reason, children don't get the same consideration as other people.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

I like many were spanked to hell as a kid when I did something really bad.

...I knew what the punishment would be and chose to do it...

If I didn't get punished I wouldn't have had the same respect for the boundary.

Give an esample of what you consider "realy bad".!!!

How many times do you thank you was "spanked to hell" as a kid.???

Did you learn respect for "boundries"... or to have a fear of punishment.???

 

[Baron Max]

Wasn't spanking the prevelant way to discipline a young child for the last 1000 years.

Since spanking seems to be on the way out and prison rates are rising it indicates the opposite.

Of course I am not suggesting the two have anything to do with each other

Good one! But I'm sure that it'll be ignored for the more politically and liberally correct idealism of the perfect child who listens to reason and fully understands.

What's interesting is that there are some people right here on this forum who can't follow simple logic and reasoning ....and they're probably some of the ones who claim that little kids can do it when they're upset and being bad. ...LOL!

Baron Max

 

[Ellie]

yes, they are people. If you went and assaulted a total stranger, you would get arrested and end up in jail. For some reason, children don't get the same consideration as other people.

that argument reeks of dishonestly. am i going to go up to someone in the supermarket and spank them? dont be so disingenuous and throw around terms like 'assault' when they are not warranted or at all relevant.

 

[Orleander]

that argument reeks of dishonestly. am i going to go up to someone in the supermarket and spank them? dont be so disingenuous and throw around terms like 'assault' when they are not warranted or at all relevant.

If you hit my child, you would be charged with assault. How is it magically not assault if you do it to your own child?

 

[Ellie]

Give an esample of what you consider "realy bad".!!!

How many times do you thank you was "spanked to hell" as a kid.???

Did you learn respect for "boundries"... or to have a fear of punishment.???

I was hit one time by my dad and that was on the ass and i dont even remember the reason but it was no big deal.