You should also try beating them through telephone books so it doesn't leave marks.
Bumping into someone at the store is ASSAULT? :crazy: LMAO.......
Ok I am convinced that Orleander and Clueluss are husband and wife.
Spanking Lowers IQ Points
- Thread starter Orleander
- Start date
You should also try beating them through telephone books so it doesn't leave marks.
Bumping into someone at the store is ASSAULT? :crazy: LMAO.......
Ok I am convinced that Orleander and Clueluss are husband and wife.
well..any line that communicates source of info..IE 'I think its like this..'
'i was told..' 'i believe its like this' etc..
when scientific studies cannot support a conclusion IE god,ufo's etc..
see 'What is Truth' thread
communicating uninformed opinion imho means they are asking for what the right opinion is..but society has trained them that they cant be wrong so even if you gave them the right opinion they wouldnt admit to it cause it would make them wrong..they will wait till the subject comes up again in the presence of other ppl in order for them to explain the right opinion..
its ok to be wrong..its not ok to make someone feel wrong..
to clueless..
please be aware you keep changing our words..
from spanking to hitting...
I understand where you are coming from and for the most part i can respect your opinions on child rearing alot of what you have posted for experiances are valid and commendable..personally i think the topic would benifit from more examples of disciplinary actions..keep in mind just because you would not spank,doesnt make it wrong for us to spank..
its an issue of 'its not the use,its the abuse'..and it sounds like your friends abuse it,and are not smart enough to use it..too many ppl like that in the world..so as you communicate, true it applies to alot of ppl..but not to all..
your treatment of spanking as 'evil' to be avoided at all cost..well if it works for you then congrats..but it is not evil..it is a tool..used properly it is can be a good thing..
(again..unfortunatly, too many ppl dont know how to use it..)
as far as the comment of you having not right to put forth an opinion for child rearing without children of your own...bull sh*t..you have every right to have your opinions and to express them (see my last post)
i would only ask you not to associate spanking with hitting or abusing as they are different..
as far as everyone else goes..we all have a right to express our beliefs/opinions/thoughts.. even if they are wrong..please refrain from the 'your wrong' posts,
just communicate what you believe to be right..
as far as bumping into someone and getting an assault charge..
carefull...there are some ppl who would try to make that a law..we dont need anymore laws...
its like that cross in the desert to commemorate soldiers who died, someone got offended at it and made them box it (CNBC)..we dont need laws like that...
please be aware you keep changing our words..
from spanking to hitting...
I understand where you are coming from and for the most part i can respect your opinions on child rearing alot of what you have posted for experiances are valid and commendable..personally i think the topic would benifit from more examples of disciplinary actions..keep in mind just because you would not spank,doesnt make it wrong for us to spank..
its an issue of 'its not the use,its the abuse'..and it sounds like your friends abuse it,and are not smart enough to use it..too many ppl like that in the world..so as you communicate, true it applies to alot of ppl..but not to all..
your treatment of spanking as 'evil' to be avoided at all cost..well if it works for you then congrats..but it is not evil..it is a tool..used properly it is can be a good thing..
(again..unfortunatly, too many ppl dont know how to use it..)
as far as the comment of you having not right to put forth an opinion for child rearing without children of your own...bull sh*t..you have every right to have your opinions and to express them (see my last post)
i would only ask you not to associate spanking with hitting or abusing as they are different..
as far as everyone else goes..we all have a right to express our beliefs/opinions/thoughts.. even if they are wrong..please refrain from the 'your wrong' posts,
just communicate what you believe to be right..
as far as bumping into someone and getting an assault charge..
carefull...there are some ppl who would try to make that a law..we dont need anymore laws...
its like that cross in the desert to commemorate soldiers who died, someone got offended at it and made them box it (CNBC)..we dont need laws like that...
Not necessarily. I think they have something in common, though.
I think that both of them are simply well-meaning, decent people who have never had a chance to see how ugly the world can be. As someone who has seen under a few too many rocks, I make it my business to try to keep them that way. There are some things that decent people are better off not knowing too much about. I would rather keep that sick shit away from them and out of their lives.
Orleander, if you have had experience with dogs, do you understand the distinction between a nip and bite, coming from a dog? Unless you have exceptionally delicate skin, a nip is unlikely to leave any visible marks, most of the time. On the other hand, a bite nearly always breaks thue skin, even if it comes from a toy-sized dog.
Short of injuries or abnormalities that could hinder the movement of the jaw, there is no such thing as a dog that is too small to break the skin if it has a mind to bite you. I have direct experience on this if that means anything to you. Ten years later, I still get an itch sometimes from that tiny, little scar on my thumb. The size of the dog may make a difference in the severity of the injury, but a dog that wants to tear into you absolutely can.
The difference between a nip and a bite, coming from a dog, is fairly simple. A nip is a form of superficial violence that is used for communication. I am not even sure as to whether I would count it in the same category as violent behavior. Nipping seems to be used in greetings between dogs almost as often as expressions of frustration or annoyance. They rarely cause any visible injury, and the only reason we really need to correct this behavior is to prevent our animals from scaring skittish, old ladies who don't know their language. A bite, on the other hand, is intended to cause injuries.
Now, I know that you do not believe that my experience with animals is perfectly relevant. Although I feel resentful over the tone with which you dismissed it, it is nonetheless your prerogative to decide whether or not you accept it as relevant. As a hypothetical, though, I want you to try playing naturalist with me for just a minute, here.
Just like we see dogs occasionally communicating with each other using nips and little love-bites, we often see humans communicating with each other using play-punches, slaps, spankings, and similar gestures that are designed to communicate information, not to actually cause injuries. On the other hand, we also see humans engaging in behaviors are designed to actually cause harm. Therefore, we are going to treat parents who spank their children in the same way that we treat a bitch who disciplines her pup using occasional nips.
Just to be clear, what we are in disagreement over is whether or not we consider it acceptable to allow human parents to use spankings in order to communicate information to their children. You and clueless husband are saying "no," and this is a perfectly valid and acceptable point of view. People like me are saying "maybe, but preferably not." Others are saying, "yes, if infrequently" and some of these guys even believe that corporal discipline is necessary.
So let's just say that I agree with you. My views on it may not be as strong as yours, but I do have a feeling that corporal discipline is outdated, barbaric, and kind of childish. You see, just because we have an instinctive impulse to spank our children to mete out discipline does not mean that spanking should be considered to be perfectly socially acceptable. It might not be a terribly bad thing to do, but I don't want to see it. I don't want to see grown men grabbing their wives on their behinds, either. It's simply vulgar, and I think people should at least have the decency not to do it in public places. I simply find it offensive.
The point that some of us are trying to get across to people like you and clueless husband is not really about whether or not we should support corporal discipline. I am already on your side there. If you are an experienced dog owner, though, you might have had to explain to someone, at some point, that your dog was not trying to bite some person whom he or she nipped on the hand. You might have even had to go in front of a judge about it. It's really frustrating to get people who don't understand dogs to understand the distinction between a nip and a bite. They have two totally different purposes. If you have never been in this situation, then believe me: it can be a real migraine if it comes up. It's a good reason to teach your dog early on that nipping is bad, period, and draw the line on it at "no, no, no." Otherwise, some skittish or cruel, old lady will eventually try to get your dog put down by court order, and it can be really expensive and troublesome to get out of that kind of pickle. I also suggest keeping some hidden cameras around, just in case your animal nips on some douchebag who was being deliberately antagonistic: it could save your animal's life to have videotaped evidence of any provocation or attemped entry to your residence. In any case, most experienced dog owners know what a nip is.
Some dogs have a problem, though. Some of them can't seem to stop at just nipping another dog on the ear to say, "this is my food and not yours, so stay in your own space instead of invading mine." Some of them have a habit of bullying on other dogs, for example. Some of them are biters, and they keep sinking their teeth into people's fingers just because they happen to be in a rotten mood. A few...ugh. There are some dogs that will just maul anything that moves, including small children. This is dysfunctional.
Now, imagine that Randwolf and I are two frustrated dog owners, and we are both trying to explain to you that the dog who just nipped your fingers was not actually trying to harm you, so you should not be terribly afraid of him. We both understand that you just reached for him too fast, and you startled him. What's happening here, Orleander, is that I would really love to have a conversation with Randwolf here, where I try to explain to him that he should be more firm about discouraging this sort of behavior. I want to try to make a case to him that this nipping behavior is uncouth and unacceptable, and we shouldn't tolerate it just because the animal is "just a dog." Any dog that lives under my roof has better manners than to nip people on the fingers. Well, Randwolf here tends to sympathize more with the dog, and he thinks that you looked like you were trying to grab him on the ear. Therefore, we would be having a somewhat lively discussion on this topic. However, both of us are faced with a simple hindrance to having our pleasant, little argument: you still think the god damned dog is trying to maul you, and both of us know that this is nonsense. Even though I might disagree with Randwolf on how he disciplines his animal, I don't want the dog to be thrown into a gas chamber just because some skittish lady, who doesn't understand dogs, felt she had been attacked.
Now, I want you to take that image, Orleander, and instead we are dealing with parents who are using corporal discipline to deal with their children. As much as I would like to tell Randwolf here that it's uncouth and barbaric, it's really a lot more important at the moment to get people like you to understand that there is a distinction between attacking a child, bullying a child, and using corporal discipline on a child. They are completely different egg groups, miss. Unfortunately, some people tend to lump all three of these things into the same category.
Orleander, trust me: I have seen the effects of real child abuse. It leaves behind a broken, splintered, depressive corpse of a human being. It's evil. Please try to understand that neither Randwolf nor I would ever want to condone this evil. I don't like seeing people who can't start to piece their lives together because their lives have left them too broken and discouraged. When I look at that, I think about some of the crap I am coming from, and it gets harder for me to carry my own burdens. If you could see what some people can do to animals, you would be sick. There are some people out there who torture their animals by putting cigarettes out on them, and they do this for entertainment value. It just isn't tolerable. If people are behaving that way toward their own children, it is everyone's business. There is simply no excuse in it.
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No. It is a reference to Pokemon breeding, just to show you how white and nerdy I am.
In the game, there are types, and there are egg groups. Therefore, you might have two electric types, but they are unable to breed together. Superficially, they look like they may be related to each other because their powers are similar, right? You would think that anything that has electric powers is going to be compatible with something else that has electricity as its basic element. This is the problem with judging things based on superficial qualities.
On the other hand, you could have a water type and an electric type, and they actually can breed with each other, even though the elements their powers are based on are of no relation whatsoever. This is because they come from the same or compatible egg groups.
What I meant by the analogy was to say that, even though these three different behaviors involve striking, that doesn't mean they're the same thing. Let's say we have three egg groups. One is "evil and intolerable," one is "sleazy and sickening," and the third is "backward, uncouth and barbaric." However, we have a pokemon from each of these egg groups, and their powers are all based on the element, "slapping your children around."
Now, although I don't like any of these three egg-groups, the gist of my argument is that we shouldn't assume that these three pokemon are in the SAME egg-group just because they all have the same element. I can tolerate someone who is merely uncouth, especially if that person claims to have a good excuse for being uncouth. Do you understand now?
Well you both seem like peerty strong women but i dout ether 1 of ya coud handle me all by you'rself... lol.!!!
Right or rong (label it as you will)... It ant necesary to hit a kid to get 'em to behave "properly"... an i suspect you spankers know that but wont admit it :shrug:
O... an befor i forget... of the spankers in this thred... if i had to leave my kid wit any of ya... based on what ive read here... id feel perty good about leavin 'em wit Shorty or Rindwolf... i mean... i hardly thank you'r monsters... lol... jus a bit mis-guided.!!!
I will agree that not all abuce is equal.!!!
"Evel" is jus somptin else that i dont have beleifs in... i simply thank that hittin kids is unnecesary an abusive.!!!
If you develope a way to spank a kid wit-out hittin 'em i will then deside if the new method is abusive or not.!!!
No idea what you'r talkin about
Thats a diferent thred for sure... an if you'r inclined to start a new thred about it... how was it that 1 offended person was able to make "them" box it up... an who is "them".???
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HA! You couldn't handle me dear...
Well at least you have some sense, I was starting to wonder
I don't see why. You seem basically agreeable.
That is the point. Any further argument beyond that is one of semantic distinctions.
Funny you should say that. The worst abuse I ever got was being treated like a psychotic monster just because I got upset sometimes. I didn't like being treated like a monster. I tried pretending that I had died, and I was really just a ghost that nobody could see anymore. I stopped caring if anybody believed that I was hurt when I cried, so I eventually cried just because it made the world seem farther away. If I kept it far enough away, it couldn't hurt anything that mattered. It's not that I hated the world. It just stopped being relevant.
I have known abuse, dude. What makes it abuse is how the kid takes it, and I know that a spanking is not the same thing as abuse. It's NOT. Spanking is a form of communication, and frankly it doesn't really work that effectively on a child that has reached the concrete operational stage of development. If you try spanking a healthy child over 7, he will either give you a bloody nose or start laughing at you uncontrollably. I sure did. Once you have the intelligence to realize how silly it is, it is really hard to take it all that seriously.
The people I know who were physically abused include one girl I know who used to be raped and beaten on a regular basis by her step-father, and her mother didn't have the courage to stand up to the bastard. It left her crippled for life.
It includes one fellow I know who was forced into prostitution by his older brother...starting when he was just 3 years-old. It didn't stop until a would-be customer tried to drown the sick bastard. Where were his parents? Drunk.
It includes a young man I know whose mother ended up with a boyfriend who turned out to be a bad influence. They used him as a slave. They would come home piss-drunk and running into walls every night, and they would beat him to within an inch of his life if he hadn't done what he was told. I told him, "If you pull at least a 3.0, my boy, you can disappear to a magical land called University, and you will never have to see them again." Needless to say, the dude became an honor student pretty much overnight. The best medicine for a desperate kid is unapologetic truth.
Dude, I know what abuse is, both physical and non-physical. Maybe physical abuse is ten million times worse than the shit I endured, but I speak on authority saying that the occasional spanking is not even remotely in the same realm of...thought...as "abuse."
And let's be serious: this isn't about advocating spanking. It's about not confusing it with abuse.
By the way, have I mentioned that my weird fits of temper and occasional bouts of paranoia are probably due to an adrenal dysfunction? You see, the reason that I think this is a possibility is that my maternal uncle suffered from a problem with his adrenal gland. In his case, it led to mood imbalances and alcoholism. But the thing is, I have never shown any signs of bonafide psychosis. Mood disturbances, yes. Psychosis? Nope. I just know that all this shit is just a stupid glandular problem. It really sucks.
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Well i tell you what... "Dude"... lol... compared to the horrors you thank are necesary to be defined as abuce... then it shud be perfectly fine to give a kid a slap to the face or a kick to the azz as long as it dont brake a bone or leave a open wound... huh Dude
BTW... Dood... are you kin to Dick Chenny... he dont thank water-boardin is torture... yep... no blood... no broken bones... its jus a form of comunication... eh
Well i tell you what... "Dude"... lol... compared to the horrors you thank are necesary to be defined as abuce... then it shud be perfectly fine to give a kid a slap to the face or a kick to the azz as long as it dont brake a bone or leave a open wound... huh Dude
from what i can make out of your post, many kids wish they had a parent that cared enough about them to be interested enough to discipline themn when they do something wrong.
what do you think of that DUDE?:bugeye:
In keepin wit the "Dude" theme... ther are other ways besides hittin 'em to get you'r child to behave "properly"... Dude
Ya thank :wallbang:
Have you even paid attention to the stance that I have taken on this subject, or are you really just as clueless as your name says?Well i tell you what... "Dude"... lol... compared to the horrors you thank are necesary to be defined as abuce... then it shud be perfectly fine to give a kid a slap to the face or a kick to the azz as long as it dont brake a bone or leave a open wound... huh Dude
BTW... Dood... are you kin to Dick Chenny... he dont thank water-boardin is torture... yep... no blood... no broken bones... its jus a form of comunication... eh
i am not cluluss but i have to add that it is dificult to take a definitive stance on this. for one thing, regardless of what the findings are in the op link that spanking does not lower iq, at least i cant imagine how it would. some things you mentioned in another post are clearly abuse and would\can stunt development.
be that as it may, a spanking for a seriously out of control or dangerous action taken by a child is not going to scar them for life. sometimes lessons are learned the hard way but it is important to learn so they dont make the same mistakes.
Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Well i tell you what... "Dude"... lol... compared to the horrors you thank are necesary to be defined as abuce... then it shud be perfectly fine to give a kid a slap to the face or a kick to the azz as long as it dont brake a bone or leave a open wound... huh Dude
BTW... Dood... are you kin to Dick Chenny... he dont thank water-boardin is torture... yep... no blood... no broken bones... its jus a form of comunication... eh
Well i ant been keepin notes on what youv'e said... but i clearly disagreed wit you'r las post to me... an rather than respond to my criticism by defendin what you said... you choose to call me clueless... mayb you realize what you said ant defensible so you'r jus blowin smoke... eh :shrug:
Well i tell you what... "Dude"... lol... compared to the horrors you thank are necesary to be defined as abuce... then it shud be perfectly fine to give a kid a slap to the face or a kick to the azz as long as it dont brake a bone or leave a open wound... huh Dude
BTW... Dood... are you kin to Dick Chenny... he dont thank water-boardin is torture... yep... no blood... no broken bones... its jus a form of comunication... eh
Well i ant been keepin notes on what youv'e said... but i clearly disagreed wit you'r las post to me... an rather than respond to my criticism by defendin what you said... you choose to call me clueless... mayb you realize what you said ant defensible so you'r jus blowin smoke... eh :shrug:
The las thang a kid needs who is serously out of control is to be hit... but hay... thats jus my opinion... you are free to hit you'r kid as much as you thank proper no mater what i thank... oK.???
this isnt about members hitting their kids.
i dont think you have kids so you are creating these scenarios in your head where people just want to hit their kids for the hell of it. i can understand why a parent may feel that a spank on the behind is warranted. sometimes for their own protection.