Some questions for better understanding of Main Stream Cosmology

[Declan Lunny]

This is precisely what is happening in this forum. Paddoboy / Origin / Aquoues Id / Brucep / etc are doing exactly the same thing, answering, defending and finally terming the insistence of querist either as agenda or BS. But then no constructive idea is also coming forward from these guys, this is quite disturbing, they appear to be more than Wiki knowledgeable, they also must come forward and put their own views frankly. Simply doing the job of pasting some news or some writings or answering questions is not doing justice to their knowledge..

Calling out people by name to whine about their approach to discussing science is poor form. Maybe you should address each of them individually with any umbrage you feel in a particular post they made. The four names you cited usually have a very good grasp of the conventional science they are discussing and can usually be counted on to honestly let you the know the limits of their grasp.

All "ideas", "theories" or "musings" are not created equal. What should they do, "pretend" that anything you say is a "good idea, theory or musing" just because you took the time to type it into a forum thread?

When can the word "crank" be applied? Never if it offends you?

What about "crackpot"? Never if it offends you?

Pseudoscience? Never if it offends you?

Fringe?

Most often when someone offers an "alternate" theory, it will fit into one or all of those categories. You can't make everyone accept your theorizing having the same weight as you yourself place on it.

Calling out several people, as a group, to complain is bad form. Telling people how to appropriately discuss science is also bad form. Telling people how to judge your off beat ideas is also bad form. It reminds me of someone we all love to hate. Just saying,,,,,,

 

[RajeshTrivedi]

in short there is no vision of the true solid body, and its position as your see the light at one location but the physical body is located at some distance, for long range objects the true postion of a body may be on the other side of the earth. so the galaxy it self really has a different appearance and different oreintation of direction.

DwayneD.L.Rabon

What you say may look a bit exaggerated, but there is some sense in this.

The present mapping of Galaxies (Very Remote Objects), is done based on the light received from them. For example NGC2403 is around 10 Million Light Years away and NGC3109 is around 4 Million Light Years away. What it means is that the observed and mapped distance of NGC3109 is of 4 mly and NGC2403 is 10 mly. Now mapping both of them today will be indicative but certainly incorrect representation. What it says that mapped position: of NGC2403 is of t = -10 Million Years, and mapped position of NGC3109 is of t = -4 Million Years, so it is just indicative and makes no sense at t = 0 (Instant). Due to expansion of spacetime, we really do not know where these Galaxies (Position and orientation) are at present. In fact the life is very difficult for Galaxies which are around few billion light years away, because it is quite likely that they would have moved away from their mapped position substantially due to faster accelerated Expansion. Whatever we are seeing is very very past, and we do not know about the present status of these remote objects. But nonetheless this study is required to understand about the cosmos at the Macro level.

 

[paddoboy]

Due to expansion of spacetime, we really do not know where these Galaxies (Position and orientation) are at present. In fact the life is very difficult for Galaxies which are around few billion light years away, because it is quite likely that they would have moved away from their mapped position substantially due to faster accelerated Expansion. Whatever we are seeing is very very past, and we do not know about the present status of these remote objects. But nonetheless this study is required to understand about the cosmos at the Macro level.

You don't believe this is common sense and is well known among mainstream?
For an object 10 million L/years away, the amount it moves year by year, is still insignificant when compared to its average distance.
Alpha Centauri system is 4.3 L/Years away.......In another few thousand years its proximity to Earth as our closest interstellar neighbour, will be over taken by Barnard's star.
The constellations as we now view them, will change.
The whole Universe is in constant motion.
We have learnt that from mainstream giants of the present and past, state of the art equipment, and plenty of mathematical research and physics.
M31 will merge with the MW one day....But at present we say its around 2.5 million L/years away.
:shrug:
All accepted mainstream cosmology.

 

[DwayneD.L.Rabon]

Well, Orgin and Rajesh Trivedi

What I mean is that if you are standing on the earth surface and you look at say the nearest star Alpha Centuari, the light recived on you telescope or photograhic plate is a distance way from the physical body of the star.

If aplha centuari is given a plotted latitude and longitude, on the surface of the earth, the plotted latitude and longitued of the physical body of the star alpha centuari is located 91.9 miles away from the location plotted for the light received.

At the end of dependable observation range about 250 light years a object plotted at a point on earths surface is 5,346.46 miles from the point where the physical body is located.

Very distance objects such as the galaxtic center would be located 1,069,292.921 miles away from point. or 15,474.57 degrees.

Stereoscoptic Dubbles Dance
Dwayne D.L.Rabon

 

[RajeshTrivedi]

Very distance objects such as the galaxtic center would be located 1,069,292.921 miles away from point. or 15,474.57 degrees.

Dwayne D.L.Rabon

This degree part on the face of it looks incorrect...Something wrong in your calculation.

 

[Dywyddyr]

This degree part on the face of it looks incorrect...Something wrong in your calculation.

There's "something wrong" with ALL of Rabon's calculations.
He isn't doing science.
He doesn't do science.
He makes sh*t up and calls it science.

 

[RajeshTrivedi]

For an object 10 million L/years away, the amount it moves year by year, is still insignificant when compared to its average distance...

This object is 10 mly away, but when ??

 

[paddoboy]

There's "something wrong" with ALL of Rabon's calculations.
He isn't doing science.
He doesn't do science.
He makes sh*t up and calls it science.

And then claims his shit is more valid then accepted mainstream cosmology.
The mind boggles at the arrogance these anti science brigade exhibit, and the severe delusions they are under.

 

[paddoboy]

This object is 10 mly away, but when ??

If you are unable or unwilling to understand the relatively small distances astronomical objects travel, when compared to their large distance from Earth, then you do have a problem, as well as an agenda.

Have you ever heard of the "The Uncertainty Principle"?
Although used in reference to the quantum realm, an analogy can be logicaly used in this instant.

The position and/or momentum of a particle/object, cannot be measured at the same time with precision.
Really just plain old common sense when talking of a Universe/spacetime that is dynamic.
Alpha Centauri system is 4.3 L/years away as we speak, and has been for many decades, and will be for many more, before the changes that are occurring, are large enough to be noted.

 

[origin]

What you say may look a bit exaggerated, but there is some sense in this.

The present mapping of Galaxies (Very Remote Objects), is done based on the light received from them. For example NGC2403 is around 10 Million Light Years away and NGC3109 is around 4 Million Light Years away. What it means is that the observed and mapped distance of NGC3109 is of 4 mly and NGC2403 is 10 mly. Now mapping both of them today will be indicative but certainly incorrect representation. What it says that mapped position: of NGC2403 is of t = -10 Million Years, and mapped position of NGC3109 is of t = -4 Million Years, so it is just indicative and makes no sense at t = 0 (Instant). Due to expansion of spacetime, we really do not know where these Galaxies (Position and orientation) are at present. In fact the life is very difficult for Galaxies which are around few billion light years away, because it is quite likely that they would have moved away from their mapped position substantially due to faster accelerated Expansion. Whatever we are seeing is very very past, and we do not know about the present status of these remote objects. But nonetheless this study is required to understand about the cosmos at the Macro level.

This is something you would learn in the first week of the astronomy class you should take.

 

[origin]

Well, Orgin and Rajesh Trivedi

What I mean is that if you are standing on the earth surface and you look at say the nearest star Alpha Centuari, the light recived on you telescope or photograhic plate is a distance way from the physical body of the star.

If aplha centuari is given a plotted latitude and longitude, on the surface of the earth, the plotted latitude and longitued of the physical body of the star alpha centuari is located 91.9 miles away from the location plotted for the light received.

At the end of dependable observation range about 250 light years a object plotted at a point on earths surface is 5,346.46 miles from the point where the physical body is located.

Very distance objects such as the galaxtic center would be located 1,069,292.921 miles away from point. or 15,474.57 degrees.

Stereoscoptic Dubbles Dance
Dwayne D.L.Rabon

Using your numbers I get 2.6 x 10^-11 degrees. Your number of 15,474 degrees means that the object is actually circled us 42 to times or some such nonsense.:m:

 

[Declan Lunny]

In fact the life is very difficult for Galaxies which are around few billion light years away, because it is quite likely that they would have moved away from their mapped position substantially due to faster accelerated Expansion. Whatever we are seeing is very very past, and we do not know about the present status of these remote objects. But nonetheless this study is required to understand about the cosmos at the Macro level.

Please Google "look back time" and "comoving distances" before trying to explain your thoughts on this. It's a tricky concept, but not extremely difficult. If you want to discuss "Main Stream Cosmology" it is essential that you are very familiar with those terms and are comfortable with exactly what they mean.

 

[RajeshTrivedi]

If you are unable or unwilling to understand the relatively small distances astronomical objects travel, when compared to their large distance from Earth, then you do have a problem, as well as an agenda.

Have you ever heard of the "The Uncertainty Principle"?
Although used in reference to the quantum realm, an analogy can be logicaly used in this instant.

The position and/or momentum of a particle/object, cannot be measured at the same time with precision.
Really just plain old common sense when talking of a Universe/spacetime that is dynamic.
Alpha Centauri system is 4.3 L/years away as we speak, and has been for many decades, and will be for many more, before the changes that are occurring, are large enough to be noted.

Uncertainty principle is not required here.. If we state that so and so galaxy is 10 mly away, it means light took 10 m years to reach to us. It is took not takes... So this 10 mly distance between Earth and this Galaxy was 10 million years ago, not today. Now who is talking about one year or 100 years, we are talking about 10 million years.

You are right it hardly matters for Alpha Centauri (just 4.3 Ly) and moreover we are together with Alpha Centauri, so expansion would not create further gap. But this is entirely a different ballgame for a Galaxies.

 

[RajeshTrivedi]

Please Google "look back time" and "comoving distances" before trying to explain your thoughts on this. It's a tricky concept, but not extremely difficult. If you want to discuss "Main Stream Cosmology" it is essential that you are very familiar with those terms and are comfortable with exactly what they mean.

You missed it badly. The question is not between two objects of our Galaxy (or two objects of any Galaxy), but it is between two different Galaxies. Please enlighten this forum how you would apply comoving distance between two Galaxies.

 

[origin]

You are right it hardly matters for Alpha Centauri (just 4.3 Ly) and moreover we are together with Alpha Centauri, so expansion would not create further gap. But this is entirely a different ballgame for a Galaxies.

No kidding? This is all well known.

When the popular press says a galaxy has been found that is 13 billion light years away, that is not true in any sense really.

What that actually means is the light from the galaxy has been traveling for 13 billions years. When the light was emitted from the galaxy it was much closer to earth than 13 billion light years, but as the universe expanded it the light had farther to travel and was stretched (red shifted). The galaxy that emitted that light 13 billion years ago is now actually about 30 billion light years away from earth.

 

[Declan Lunny]

You missed it badly. The question is not between two objects of our Galaxy (or two objects of any Galaxy), but it is between two different Galaxies. Please enlighten this forum how you would apply comoving distance between two Galaxies.

Do you know what comoving distance means? If you will Google the terms "comoving distance" and "look back time" you find that your previous comments about "Main Stream Cosmology" are embarrassing.

Please enlighten this forum how you would apply comoving distance between two Galaxies

You can not discuss where two galaxies ARE and where they WERE when their light was emitted without reference to the look back time and/or the comoving distance. If you are not making them part of the consideration, you are not discussing reality. This why an object at the limit of our ability to observe we can only see at 13.7 billion ly away, but the observable universe is 46 billion ly wide.

Look back time tells where it was WHEN. Comoving distance tells you where it is NOW. Any discussion of viewing a distant galaxy without taking both into account is meaningless as far as reality is concerned. Anyone with even the most rudimentary interest in the subject of cosmology should know these terms intimately.

 

[DwayneD.L.Rabon]

Well, Orgin and Rajesh Trivedi

As I noted before in the pervious post, the view of the physcial appearnce in space is not what we see in optical record such as photographs, the oreintation of the galaxy and other distant objects is simply different.

There are some rather tricky features in making a accurate or near accurate assement of postions and how to do that, for example i will have to retract the formula that i gave earlier as it has some short falls, for example the formula will have to be amended or rewritten, as the deviation is a little bit larger that stated in the formula.
Even so the formula being stated provides a example of the circumstances that exist when we try to look at the physical appearnce of our galaxy and other distant objects.

It appears that the light transmitted from distance objects such as the assumed galaxtic center sprials around and is viewed at a given location on earth, there may be other patterns or circumstances.

To gives some confines to what we might call a galaxtic form or shape, you can exspect that our sun SOL produces gravity interaction with objects that are within 100,000 lightyears radius of the our suns center. meaning also that as background field that what we will see, with a physical certainy but it will have to be deciphered. it would safe to assume that if stars in our area or within 250 to 500 lightyears have a simular mass or near mass that then we could say that a predominace tends to define our galaxy as being about 100,000 light years to 200,000 lightyears in diameter.


DwayneD.L.Rabon

 

[Aqueous Id]

Well, Orgin and Rajesh Trivedi

What I mean is that if you are standing on the earth surface and you look at say the nearest star Alpha Centuari, the light recived on you telescope or photograhic plate is a distance way from the physical body of the star.

If aplha centuari is given a plotted latitude and longitude, on the surface of the earth, the plotted latitude and longitued of the physical body of the star alpha centuari is located 91.9 miles away from the location plotted for the light received.

Absolute trash.

At the end of dependable observation range about 250 light years a object plotted at a point on earths surface is 5,346.46 miles from the point where the physical body is located.

That's worse than dumb, it's impossible.

Very distance objects such as the galaxtic center would be located 1,069,292.921 miles away from point. or 15,474.57 degrees.

:roflmao:
Another dropout has come here to preach Ulitimate Reality. Just wonderful.

 

[brucep]

Do you know what comoving distance means? If you will Google the terms "comoving distance" and "look back time" you find that your previous comments about "Main Stream Cosmology" are embarrassing.



You can not discuss where two galaxies ARE and where they WERE when their light was emitted without reference to the look back time and/or the comoving distance. If you are not making them part of the consideration, you are not discussing reality. This why an object at the limit of our ability to observe we can only see at 13.7 billion ly away, but the observable universe is 46 billion ly wide.

Look back time tells where it was WHEN. Comoving distance tells you where it is NOW. Any discussion of viewing a distant galaxy without taking both into account is meaningless as far as reality is concerned. Anyone with even the most rudimentary interest in the subject of cosmology should know these terms intimately.

This thread has been an abuse of 'your' science of cosmology from beginning to end. Heard anymore about an October revelation?

 

[Walter L. Wagner]

Another dropout has come here to preach Ulitimate Reality. Just wonderful.

This is very typical of his/her posts over the years - pure gibberish nonsense. It exemplifies that anyone is allowed to post, and serves as a warning to the casual reader that you should not accept everything posted in this forum unless you've become familiar with the poster over the course of a few months, at least, and recognize validity in the posts.