Solution to Avian flu problem

[ghost7584]

Raise the chickens in a green house type coup with clear plastic over the chicken wire on the roof and tops of the walls. The purpose is to raise the temperature in the chicken coups maybe 10 degrees or higher. [Experiments could be done to find the best temperature.] The reason for this is that flu viruses multiply well in cold weather and don't multiply well in hot weather. [That is why the immune system causes a fever, to prevent the viruses from multiplying fast, so that the immune system can kill them faster than they multiply.]
Raising the chickens in this higher temperature would allow the bird's immune system to kill the viruses faster than they multiply. This could eliminate the avian flu problem. The domestic birds would no longer get the flu.
[I saw on TV once that in France an artificial fever produced by having a person's blood warmed outside the body and then returning it to his body, actually cured him of aids. This was done in France.]

 

[URI]

>> an artificial fever produced by having a person's blood warmed outside the body and then returning it to his body, actually cured him of aids >>

indeed a promising technology

In one case the head was cooled, in others the body is heated
but the head must not be heated.

Above 42-45 C irreversible denaturing of the cellular proteins can lead to death so experimental work in this area is rather dangerous.

>> from some reading, it seems viral disease in avians starts a fever (hyperthermic), the bird then becomes hypothermic. >>

>> >> Fever is not an illness. Far from being an enemy, it is an important part of the body's defense against infection. Many infants and children develop high fevers with minor viral illnesses. While a fever signals to us that a battle might be going on in the body, the fever is fighting for the person, not against.

Most bacteria and viruses that cause infections in people thrive best at 98.6°F. Raising the temperature a few degrees can give your body the winning edge. In addition, a fever activates the body's immune system to make more white blood cells, antibodies, and other infection-fighting agents.

Many parents fear that fevers will cause brain damage. Brain damage from a fever generally will not occur unless the fever is over 107.6°F (42°C). Many parents also fear that untreated fevers will keep going higher and higher. Untreated fevers caused by infection will seldom go over 105°F unless the child is overdressed, or trapped in a hot place. The brain's thermostat will stop the fever from climbing above 106°F. >>
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003090.htm

>> When the ambient temperature exceeds body temperature, heat is taken in from the environment.4 As soon as body temperature increases above the thermoregulatory set-point, heat dissipation depends on both autonomic and behavioural adjustments.4 In the normal subject, heat exposure to 46°C for 4 h increased the core temperature by only 0.75°C.5 >>
http://bja.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/94/1/39

>> Above 105° F (40° C), many body enzymes become denatured and chemical reactions cannot take place, leading to death. Below 98.6° F (37° C), chemical reactions slow down, with various complications that can lead to death. >>
http://www.outdoored.com/articles/Article.asp?ArticleID=122

>> * Heatstroke occurs when the body core temperature reaches 104 degrees F.
* A body core temperature of 107 degrees F is considered lethal.
* Children’s thermoregulatory systems are not as efficient as an adult's and their bodies warm at a rate 3 to 5 times faster than an adult’s. >>
http://ggweather.com/heat/

>> The moderate whole body hyperthermia mainly activates the immune system. This treatment is given when chemotherapy is not appropriate. We raise the body core temperature to about 39.5 c (103.1 f), which simulates a natural fever increasing the number and activity of natural cells, T-helper cells and cytotoxic T-cells. This treatment is also used in cancer diseases with special association to the immune system like renal-cell-carcinoma, malignant melanoma and special lymphomas.

Extreme whole body hyperthermia is used in combination with chemotherapy in advanced or metastatic cancer. The body core temperature is increased up to 42 c (107.6 f).

Extreme whole body hyperthermia is useful in advanced cancer, especially with metastases in different organs, e.g. in the liver, bones or lungs.

During the whole body hyperthermia the patient is in a special unit (IRATHERM 2000) and can be reached from all sides.
(pic http://www.hospitaldrherzog.de/pictures/140_540.jpg )
http://www.hospitaldrherzog.de/whole_body_hyperthermia.htm


>> >> the core body temperature of all pigeons remained within the range of 36.2°C–42.0°C (97.2°F–107.6°F). >>

http://www.bioone.org/bioone/?request=get-abstract&issn=1082-6742&volume=019&issue=01&page=0001

>> The Human Body Temperature Monitoring System HBTMS was used successfully for mass screening in public places, such as airports, ports and terminals, following the need to restrict the spread of the recent deadly SARS outbreak.

The use of Land's Human Body Temperature Monitoring System HBTMS is just one of the measures which can help minimize global public health risks that could arise from large outbreaks of highly pathogenic avian influenza (bird flu).>>
http://www.landinst.com/infrared/products/thermal_imaging/body_imager.htm

>> Birds have only slightly higher body temperatures than mammals; avian temperatures range from around the human level of 98.6 degrees F (penguins, Whip-poor-wills) to 104 degrees (most resting birds >>
http://www.stanford.edu/group/stanfordbirds/text/essays/Metabolism.html

>> The body temperature of birds is between 104F to 112F.>>
http://www.cockatielcottage.net/questions4.html



mmh maybe even higher temperatures could be achieved.
Birds are already at the high end of the scale, a BF virus would be able to stand at ?44 C >>


I have been investigating this proceedure in relation th human illness.

 

[c20H25N3o]

Sorry :m:

 

[Muhlenberg]

Birds operate at a higher temperature than humans. The RNA of H5N1 is tweaked to replicate at those temps. Which may be why H2H (if it is occuring) and B2H transmission is not easy. Also why, unlike most Influenza A's, H5N1 hides inside the human lower respiratory tract. Warmer there. The H1N1 HPAI responsible for the 1918 pandemic also infected the deeper parts of the lungs.

Influenza A spreads in cool weather not because the virus replicates faster but because it is viable outside the host longer. H5N1 remains infectious if moist for 4 days at 70 degrees. Lower the temp to the 40s and it can last a month. Go stomping around a chicken coop in late fall in New England, weeks after the birds croaked, bring just a few specks of fecal matter into the house and the virus has found a nice cozy new home---you.

In the lab, Chickens are dead within 20 hours of receiving a load of H5N1 so even if raising a chicken's temperature repressed the virus (which it may or may not do), the bird would probably still be dead in short order.

 

[ghost7584]

Birds operate at a higher temperature than humans. The RNA of H5N1 is tweaked to replicate at those temps. Which may be why H2H (if it is occuring) and B2H transmission is not easy. Also why, unlike most Influenza A's, H5N1 hides inside the human lower respiratory tract. Warmer there. The H1N1 HPAI responsible for the 1918 pandemic also infected the deeper parts of the lungs.

Influenza A spreads in cool weather not because the virus replicates faster but because it is viable outside the host longer. H5N1 remains infectious if moist for 4 days at 70 degrees. Lower the temp to the 40s and it can last a month. Go stomping around a chicken coop in late fall in New England, weeks after the birds croaked, bring just a few specks of fecal matter into the house and the virus has found a nice cozy new home---you.

In the lab, Chickens are dead within 20 hours of receiving a load of H5N1 so even if raising a chicken's temperature repressed the virus (which it may or may not do), the bird would probably still be dead in short order.

Viruses transmitted in the air, flus and colds in general, cause more disease outbreaks in cold weather than in hot weather. In winter breathing in colder air is cooling off the nasal passages, throat and part of the bronchial tubes [maybe even part of the lung] more. These areas in the respiratory system which are cooler in the winter are the places where the viruses first lodge and start to multiply. They multiply better because the cold air is making these areas colder.
The idea for stopping the flu in the domestic birds is to warm up the chicken coups where they live. They will be breathing in warmer air so those areas of the upper respiratory system will be warmer. This would tend to interfere with the multiplying of any viruses that lodge there, and give the bird's immune system a chance to stop the disease before the viruses can multiply to any great degree.
[In hot weather birds cool themselves by blowing and inhaling air rapidly. The upper respiratory section of birds should be easily affected by the temperature of the air they breathe. Warming the chicken coups could have a great effect in warming those areas of the respiratory system.]

 

[Muhlenberg]

Constriction of blood vessels at the points of entry reduces the ability of the body to fight viruses off in cold weather. Viruses are pathogenic longer outside a host in the cold. Lower host resistence plus enhanced viability equals more flu infections.

Successful virus mutations replicate best at the normal temp of the host cell. A couple degrees increase in cell temperature is unlikely to matter much in the case of H5N1 in poultry. In humans even less as the virus' RNA runs best at higher than normal human temps.

The best bet to stop chickens from getting Influenza A is genetic engineering of poultry. That can be done. But there is ideological resistence to it.

 

[Light]

Viruses transmitted in the air, flus and colds in general, cause more disease outbreaks in cold weather than in hot weather. In winter breathing in colder air is cooling off the nasal passages, throat and part of the bronchial tubes [maybe even part of the lung] more. These areas in the respiratory system which are cooler in the winter are the places where the viruses first lodge and start to multiply. They multiply better because the cold air is making these areas colder.
The idea for stopping the flu in the domestic birds is to warm up the chicken coups where they live. They will be breathing in warmer air so those areas of the upper respiratory system will be warmer. This would tend to interfere with the multiplying of any viruses that lodge there, and give the bird's immune system a chance to stop the disease before the viruses can multiply to any great degree.
[In hot weather birds cool themselves by blowing and inhaling air rapidly. The upper respiratory section of birds should be easily affected by the temperature of the air they breathe. Warming the chicken coups could have a great effect in warming those areas of the respiratory system.]

Sorry, but you've completely jumped the track with this. (I'm not a virologist but I am a professional biologist and have some fair understanding of viruses and their infections.)

Infections are more frequent in cold weather due to primary causes: the largest is that people are in closer contact with each other and the other is higher survival rates of the virus outside the host. Effects from a a colder upper respiratory tract are practically nil. The major contributing factor in that area is a result of decreased mucous availability due to reduced humidity.

Warming the air the chickens breathe will have no effect whatsoever other than contributing to a heavier viral load due to the accelerated respiration rate as they attempt to cool themselves.

Just for general information, the bird's temperature is regulated by the hypothalamus - just as in humans. A chicken's nominal temperature is 100 degrees F which, in the case of a brooding hen, will rise exactly one degree.

 

[Muhlenberg]

The Oxford Journal of Family Practice is reporting on a study this week which shows moms were right all along: going out in the chilly weather does increase the risk of an cold. Constriction of blood vessels in the nose reduces the ability of the body to fight off the viruses.

 

[ferrand]

Has anyone examined the possible connection between the mechanism causing Global Warming, [more Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere] the "acidification" of the Oceans [reported at the Exeter Climate Change Conference] and the increase of Viral Infections ? It seems well established that Virus prefer more acid conditions to flourish, ['flu virus is restricted by more alkaline conditions] and if the increase in CO2 is acidifying the Oceans it is presumably acidifying everything else in contact with the atmosphere, including the Avian 'Flu Virus ?

 

[ghost7584]

Sorry, but you've completely jumped the track with this. (I'm not a virologist but I am a professional biologist and have some fair understanding of viruses and their infections.)

Infections are more frequent in cold weather due to primary causes: the largest is that people are in closer contact with each other and the other is higher survival rates of the virus outside the host. Effects from a a colder upper respiratory tract are practically nil. The major contributing factor in that area is a result of decreased mucous availability due to reduced humidity.

Warming the air the chickens breathe will have no effect whatsoever other than contributing to a heavier viral load due to the accelerated respiration rate as they attempt to cool themselves.

Just for general information, the bird's temperature is regulated by the hypothalamus - just as in humans. A chicken's nominal temperature is 100 degrees F which, in the case of a brooding hen, will rise exactly one degree.

Well, look at what you just typed. Higher survival rate of the virus outside the host if it is cold. Make the chicken coups warmer and you have a lower survival rate of the virus. Also you would have less constriction of the blood vessels near the mucous membranes and so a higher immune response.
Winter is the flu season, summer is not. Give the chickens an endless hot summer in the chicken coups and they won't have a flu season.

 

[ghost7584]

Constriction of blood vessels at the points of entry reduces the ability of the body to fight viruses off in cold weather. Viruses are pathogenic longer outside a host in the cold. Lower host resistence plus enhanced viability equals more flu infections.

Successful virus mutations replicate best at the normal temp of the host cell. A couple degrees increase in cell temperature is unlikely to matter much in the case of H5N1 in poultry. In humans even less as the virus' RNA runs best at higher than normal human temps.

The best bet to stop chickens from getting Influenza A is genetic engineering of poultry. That can be done. But there is ideological resistence to it.

Well, look at what you just typed. Higher survival rate of the virus outside the host if it is cold. Make the chicken coups warmer and you have a lower survival rate of the virus. Also you would have less constriction of the blood vessels near the mucous membranes and so a higher immune response, if the chicken coups are hotter.
Winter is the flu season, summer is not. Give the chickens an endless hot summer in the chicken coups and they won't have a flu season.
That couple of degrees in cell temperature every summer works very well for humans. Flus and colds are rarer in the Summer.
[Wheather the mechanism I stated is correct or the mechanism you stated is correct, the fact remains, that warmer weather works against the flu virus. Warmer chicken coups would too.]

 

[Light]

Well, look at what you just typed. Higher survival rate of the virus outside the host if it is cold. Make the chicken coups warmer and you have a lower survival rate of the virus. Also you would have less constriction of the blood vessels near the mucous membranes and so a higher immune response.
Winter is the flu season, summer is not. Give the chickens an endless hot summer in the chicken coups and they won't have a flu season.

Sorry, Ghost, but as you do so often, once again you've missed the MAJOR points and focus in on the relativly unimportant. Go back and read ALL of what I said and then see if you can still support the above statements. You've not even considered that the survival rate of the viruses in colder air
is extended only a very short time. Your greatest error is that that you fail to understand that the bird's increased respiration rate will greatly increase the virial load it inhales.

I must say that your knowledge of biology is fairly superficial. So go read my post again.

 

[valich]

The above info is great for controlling Avian Flu amongst farm breedin birds, but the problem that we have know is amongst migratory water fowl. It is spreading, not between farm to farm, but between migratory routes.

 

[neopole]

there is a company in new zealand called bliss techknowledgies.
they have developed a stain of steph bacteria called k12.
this is being used to combat heliotosis.
but!
what they have discovered, and are attempting to figure out how and why,
is how a good bacteria (k12)can agitate the bodies emmune system to prevent a viaral attack.
heres a link to a government website:

http://www.tec.govt.nz/downloads/a2z_publications/gipi-blis-technologies.htm
this is new stuff, and rather exciting.

 

[Light]

The above info is great for controlling Avian Flu amongst farm breedin birds, but the problem that we have know is amongst migratory water fowl. It is spreading, not between farm to farm, but between migratory routes.

That's not totally accurate, Valich. It's both. the virus is also spread by the local wild bird population that moves from farm to farm, by the interchange of poultry between farms and by people (fecal matter on their shoes and clothing) as they also travel around.

The migratory birds are moving it greater distances much quicker, of course, but the things I just listed are equally important because they intensify the pool of infection at the sources as well as distributing it.

 

[Muhlenberg]

Has anyone examined the possible connection between the mechanism causing Global Warming, [more Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere] the "acidification" of the Oceans [reported at the Exeter Climate Change Conference] and the increase of Viral Infections ? It seems well established that Virus prefer more acid conditions to flourish, ['flu virus is restricted by more alkaline conditions] and if the increase in CO2 is acidifying the Oceans it is presumably acidifying everything else in contact with the atmosphere, including the Avian 'Flu Virus ?

I'm sure someone will blame it on GLOBAL WARMING.

Most however see the problem as humans and birds living in close proximity.

Vietnam last week announced it was trying to stop poultry farmers outside Ho Chi Minh city from dumping 100 tons of bird waste a day into a lake to feed the fish. CTV had a great video of a dump in Indonesia. A duck and a chicken were fighting over a piece of something while a cat looked on and children played in the background.

 

[URI]

What is the average temperature in Vietnam, Indonesia ?

and the chicken coups must be very hot inside with all those birds

I expect all in all, the temperature in these breeders is like a hot house anyway...
couldn't go much hotter.

 

[Light]

What is the average temperature in Vietnam, Indonesia ?

and the chicken coups must be very hot inside with all those birds

I expect all in all, the temperature in these breeders is like a hot house anyway...
couldn't go much hotter.

A major bit of misunderstanding here; the vast majority of those birds are NOT confined at all. (Just as a side note, the correct spelling is "coop" and they generally are used only while transporting live birds - cages, if you will.) They are allowed to free-range in order to gather as much of their own food as possible. They freely mix with the pigs and any other farm animals.

 

[valich]

That's not totally accurate, Valich. It's both. the virus is also spread by the local wild bird population that moves from farm to farm, by the interchange of poultry between farms and by people (fecal matter on their shoes and clothing) as they also travel around.

The migratory birds are moving it greater distances much quicker, of course, but the things I just listed are equally important because they intensify the pool of infection at the sources as well as distributing it.

I agree with you. My post was directed at Ghost's post above your's. There must've been a time delay in posting. Ghost only commented on the temperature variations of the hosts in the chicken coups. I don't see this as a factor in transmitting it from one migratory route to another.

 

[Happeh]

Solution to the Avian Flu problem? Have the USA release the counter agent.

Haven't you noticed that bird flu started in Asia? Right around the time of the beginning of the invasion of Iraq? Right around the time that SARS appeared?

Some Chinese people believe SARS is a USA bioweapon. All of the Asian countries are filled with poor people who raise their own livestock. By releasing bird flu, the USA is hitting at the food source for hundreds of thousands of people.

It won't hit any industrial nation like it hits poor countries. Industrial nations, with refigeration and trucking, can ship food into affected areas. In poor countries, if the food is wiped out, what replaces the chickens? No roads, no trucks, no refrigeration. Look at the trouble Pakistan has had with quake relief.

Did Bird flu really just pop up out of nowhere? Did SARS really just pop up out of nowhere? Did the USA invade Iraq because there was WMD there, or because there was oil there?