sick but questionable

B

beenjammin2lp

Registered Member
if one were to have batch of children, could they raise them to do one thing, think one thing, love one thing....are children born with free will? do they develop it form others? this makes no sense because how did the first person get it?...are they born with the idea that there might be something better out there than what they have been taught...?
 
I think everyone uses their free will to choose what to believe. Children will tend to believe what they're told until they can re-evaluate it at a wiser age. Some adults choose to believe that which is nonsense to most people; they may choose to ignore or even be repelled by evidence to the contrary. Even under hypnosis a person cannot be directed to do something against their will.
 
You can raise children do believe alot of weird things, just look at the mormons, or the branch dividians. There probably is some inherent rebelliousness in kids around puberty, but that can be driven out of them, too. The question is, why would you want to?

There is a theory out there that our minds are actually the collective mind, formed by language and culture. It would be interesting to study feral children, you know, the ones raised by wolves, or with no human contact, and see how they behave. I recommend the movie "The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser", the story of a man raised with little human contact set free in a german village.
 
First time I questioned what my parents taught was when I was 6. I never quite agreed with them 100% to begin with. Today, my views are drastically different from those of my family. I think that since we all are born with the ability to reason (in whatever ways), it is quite impossible to raise a child to fit your views exactly or with close resemblence.

I think it all stems from natural self-interest.

The parents aren't the only ones influencing the child's values, since we are all exposed to other people. Add to that movies, music, internet. Count how many hours a child spends with working parents in a day, and how many hours he spends with peers and alone.
 
beenjammin2lp said:
...are they born with the idea that there might be something better out there than what they have been taught...?
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To really approach your dilemma you must, first, define what really is the meaning of free will and how does it apply to humanity. It is clear from seeing people who suffer incessant adversity and continue to struggle each day that free will is more of sociteal concept rather than something intrinsic to humans. The definition, parameters, obligations, roles, expectations etc etc of and from free will vary from society to society.


spidergoat said:
It would be interesting to study feral children, you know, the ones raised by wolves, or with no human contact, and see how they behave.
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Imagine feral vegetables. The best known case, and an incredibly sad one of Genie. The girl was locked in a room since birth by her deranged father, never allowed contact with anyone including her mother and beaten daily. When she was finally freed she was 13, hadn't learned to speak any language or any concept of family.

It taught us two important things.

1) There is a limited time window for a developing human being to learn a primary language.....if not learned between the ages of 2 - 10 (tenish or elevenish I believe) the human being never learns to a point of being a functional being. At age 20 and after countless attempts Genie still can't put together a coherent sentence.

2) The whole concept of ethics, justice, morality, decency, civilized behavior is not inherent but passed down in it's own unique forms varying from culture to culture. Genie, absent of any teachings in her crucial learning years, did not exhibit any characteristics of any of the above mentioned traits of humanity. She would masturbate in public whenever she felt the urge and displayed a behavior very similar of a newborn child (kicking and screaming to get what she wants and crying when in pain or hungry).

So

.are children born with free will?
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My safest bet would be NO. The concept of self importance is taught.

do they develop it form others?
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More or less. It is a very complicated and confusing process by which this all happens. So many other factors, exclusions, exceptions etc etc come in to really make that question a very hard one.
 
A more interesting thought would be if a child was never exposed to anything else, would they believe it?

Hypothetical situation (excuse the graphicness of the description but it'll be mroe effective) - A child is in a 100% controlled environment like... The Truman Show. Except the child is taught that killing people and eating their innards is a good thing. If the child was never exposed to anything else but that situation, then would they truly believe that it is the right way to live?

Spidergoat posted a very interesting site that could be analyzed from many perspectives. This shows how control takes a toll on children. I believe that is children were exposed to nothing but one thing, then they would believe it due to their lack of knowledge.
 
yea...n e one know if they have a site for research in this field? and oponions about if we have to be taught to "think outside the box" like...taught to detect sarcasm. or how to use it...and other things like that...

case in point...

my friend at work told me one day "my cousin in the army said if he told me what he did, he would have to kill me, so i dint ask him anymore..." she actually believed that....like...it was hilarious...but it made me furious at the same time how somone can be that ignorant...and she told me one time.."the sky is blue because it reflects off the ocean and vice versa...and she believed it....she wasent kidding...she was as serious as cancer....it like....infuriated me.,....i couldnet explain how i had come to the reality that that was obviously not true....

kinda like the 4 (or 5) different stages of thought. like consept of space, consept of 2nd and 3rd dimention...different stages of thought...maybe that had something to do with it....hmmm
 
sargentlard said:
When she was finally freed she was 13, hadn't learned to speak any language or any concept of family.

1) There is a limited time window for a developing human being to learn a primary language.....if not learned between the ages of 2 - 10 (tenish or elevenish I believe) the human being never learns to a point of being a functional being. At age 20 and after countless attempts Genie still can't put together a coherent sentence.
Click to expand...

i cant find the link, but last week i read on a link from newscientist, that there is a nerve in your brain that develops around the age of 5-9 that allows for children to read and write, if they are not exposed to words or language then this nerve wolud nto develop to allow for language or coherency, and if it does, it will take several years due to the age of that perosn
 
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