Should unuseful help be appreciated?

Syzygys

Syzygys

As a mother, I am telling you
Valued Senior Member
Recently I hurt Cosmic's feelings because I didn't appreciate enough his trying to help me, because I generally find his help useless.

cosmictraveler said:
Since I've only tried to help you with information I thought would do so I really don't think that your reply is very nice at all. I won't be trying to help out with any of your requests from this point forward so you can not worry about me giving you something that might or might not help. If someone were to try and help me, even if it didn't get me exactly what I needed, I still would appreciate their help not criticize them as you have done. To each their own I guess.
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So here is the eternal question: If someone tries to help you but it is useless, do you still appreciate it?

I guess it could depend on the situation. Let's say you are looking for a place and ask for help from the locals. They by mistake gave you the wrong directions, and since you don't know better, you thank them. (it happened to me) Eventually you will of course figure that they weren't helping you at all, but hey, at least they tried!

To me bad help is worse than no help at all, so I don't thank it. It is my negative feedback to the helper...

I guess we could separate the helps into 2 categories: worthless and outright incorrect. The worthless help just doesn't help you at all, the incorrect one can cause you harm in some way. (bad directions, money losing tips,etc)
 
unuseful help is an oxymoron.

the polite thing to say is, "no thank you".
 
If things are offered out of a sincere desire to help, then, yes, the thought and effort should be appreciated, unless the "help" actually hurts your own efforts.

It makes sense even if you are self-interested, because you want to encourage aid, and if you make them second guess your response, then that will result in fewer people coming to your aid. Even if 99% of the time their efforts are unhelpful, 1% of the time they are helpful.
 
nietzschefan said:
I general, I have found you to be very selfish, so at least you are honest.
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Thanks for the prize, but beside being offtopic, selfishness* and honesty are not mutually exclusive characteristics...

By the way I do love Cosmic, and in a way I do understand and appreciate that he is trying to help, I just wish it was more useful....

*Most of my threads in the Computer subforum is about helping others, even when I first ask for advice. Later people can find the way how I found the solution and that helps them.
 
Lori_7 said:
unuseful help is an oxymoron.
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It depends on whose POV. Obviously the helper thinks he is useful and obviously the helped thinks it is useless.

the polite thing to say is, "no thank you".
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The problem is that at the time of the help it is not obvious if it is useful or not. Once you spend time, money or energy following the advice comes out the true nature of it...
 
Should unuseful help be appreciated?

Sure. Mostly all of the time. I think we can then ask: When would it not be appreciated and why would it not be appreciated.
 
A pretty fundamental question in moral philosophy is whether good actions are defined by the intention behind the action, the consequence of the action, or some combination.

In the case of unuseful help, there are actually two actions to consider at first glance:
  • The 'help' given. By intention, this is a good act. By consequence, it's not.
  • The feedback returned. What are the intentions and consequences of negative feedback to the helper?

Personally, I prefer to think in terms of decisions rather than actions, and in terms of decision patterns rather than specific decisions.

But, I'll cut to the chase before I disappear up by own ass (nice mangled metaphor).
I think that the 'helper' should be appreciated (and thanked?) for being a helpful person in general - i.e. if they act in a way that would be useful more often than not, then this is a good thing.
The specific circumstances are secondary. Negative feedback is OK, and often useful... but shouldn't (in my opinion) trump the appreciation for the helper's longer term usefulness.


A 'helper' who has a decision making pattern that results in bad 'help' more often than good help is something else again.
 
What Pete said.

Now let's get down to some examples. The one in the OP, I was actually the one who gave the wrong directions, and when I realized my mistake, it was too late. I actually felt ashamed, because I sent the driver on the wrong way and probably wasted 20-30 mins. ot of her life.

Here is another one: One poster asks for weightloss advice and she gets 10 different answers. Now obviously dieting is a timeconsuming activity and if using suppliments, it can cost a few bucks too. So the advices she gets can be put into 3 categories:

1. Very useful ending in the desired weightloss.
2. Neutral, doesn't hurt but not much help either. Still because wasting time with it it is more useless than useful.
3. Outright harmful.

But keep in mind all advices were given as their best try from the other posters. They don't mean to do harm...

Here is another one: Drink 8 glasses of water a day. Which category that advice would fall under???
 
Syzygys said:
What Pete said.

Now let's get down to some examples. The one in the OP, I was actually the one who gave the wrong directions, and when I realized my mistake, it was too late. I actually felt ashamed, because I sent the driver on the wrong way and probably wasted 20-30 mins. ot of her life.

Here is another one: One poster asks for weightloss advice and she gets 10 different answers. Now obviously dieting is a timeconsuming activity and if using suppliments, it can cost a few bucks too. So the advices she gets can be put into 3 categories:

1. Very useful ending in the desired weightloss.
2. Neutral, doesn't hurt but not much help either. Still because wasting time with it it is more useless than useful.
3. Outright harmful.

But keep in mind all advices were given as their best try from the other posters. They don't mean to do harm...

Here is another one: Drink 8 glasses of water a day. Which category that advice would fall under???
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Doesnt matter. You appreciate they aret rying to help you.
 
I have 2 sayings that I use on these occasions:

"Thanks for nothing." and "Help me by not helping me."
 
Even if i dont need the help I sometimes let them do it so they can feel needed lol (Like an old relative).

But no generaly I don't like being helped I think when people help me it is a waste of time and they should help other people,

If it is going to cause a fuss and I estimate that It would take longer for me to get them to stop being nice and let me do it by myself then I will Just let them do it and get it over with.


Sometimes help is hindering to me, Lots of people slow down my execution of functions by helping me in a non productive manner. Sometimes things are better undertaken as a solo effort.

but Ofcourse always be polite and explain to people the truth. I tell people what Im thinking in brief parables I make up on the spot to explain my thoughts in a way molded for that individual.


peace.
 
Syzygys said:
If someone tries to help you but it is useless, do you still appreciate it?
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In the context of this forum, bad help is still good because at the very least it bumps your thread and possibly works towards a clearer answer.

In another forum I sometimes spend a good amount of time writing good OPs only to see them buried under one liners and ultimately forgotten. I only find myself bumping my thread in the hopes someone intelligent will respond to my OP and further the thread meaningfully.

But by bumping my own threads repeatedly, I get called a troll. So yes, bad advice can be good in a forum.
 
Syzygys said:
The problem is that at the time of the help it is not obvious if it is useful or not. Once you spend time, money or energy following the advice comes out the true nature of it...
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well isn't that your fault? for needing help. for not having the answer already? for following someone else's advice? :shrug:
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
Sometimes help is hindering to me, Lots of people slow down my execution of functions by helping me in a non productive manner.
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That when I say the already quoted: Help my by not helping me.

but Ofcourse always be polite and explain to people the truth. x
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Because people LOVE the truth, not. Look where did that take me with Cosmic...
 
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