Should minorities have a veto?

[S.A.M.]

So I was hanging out with this guy on the weekend and we landed up having a debate on minorities.

The question was:

Should minorities have a veto in matters that affect them?

Before I give my opinion, I'd like to hear some views.

You can use Prop 8 as an example [ours was related to Indian stuff, but that would not be relevant here]

 

[clusteringflux]

A veto?
Or did you mispell "vote"?

 

[S.A.M.]

A veto, as in for gay marriage, when the majority votes against them.

 

[spidergoat]

Minority rights are not guaranteed by veto, but rather by instruments like the constitution and state or federal laws, or the court system.

 

[S.A.M.]

Is that a no?

 

[spidergoat]

Correct, it wouldn't be democratic.

 

[S.A.M.]

Why? because the majority should decide what the minority can do?

This is democratic?

 

[clusteringflux]

The loser in any democratic vote is a "minority". I agree with spidergoat on this one.

 

[S.A.M.]

The loser in any democratic vote is a "minority". I agree with spidergoat on this one.

So minority rights should be decided by the majority?

 

[spidergoat]

Why? because the majority should decide what the minority can do?

This is democratic?

Not completely, that would be the tyranny of the majority. The majority can decide things within the limits of the law. It's the law that guarantees minority rights. The majority cannot vote away the rights of the minority.

 

[S.A.M.]

Not completely, that would be the tyranny of the majority. The majority can decide things within the limits of the law. It's the law that guarantees minority rights. The majority cannot vote away the rights of the minority.

Thats circular reasoning. Who decides what the law is?

 

[clusteringflux]

So minority rights should be decided by the majority?

I didn't say they "should". By definition, though, that's how a democracy works. It's a flawed system but it's the best we have.

 

[S.A.M.]

I didn't say they "should". By definition, though, that's how a democracy works. It's a flawed system but it's the best we have.

Quoted for posterity.

 

[spidergoat]

The majority, but it's much harder to change constitutions than it is to change other kinds of laws. That's why minority rights were not enforced in many cases until recently.

 

[S.A.M.]

The majority, but it's much harder to change constitutions than it is to change other kinds of laws. That's why minority rights were not enforced in many cases until recently.

And why were they enforced recently?

 

[clusteringflux]

Quoted for posterity.

Quote away. I've always said that Democracy is effectively mob rule. That's why the founders of this nation included rights endowed to ALL men by their creator.

 

[spidergoat]

Cultural attitudes changed. Denying minority rights was causing too much of a problem to the majority.

 

[S.A.M.]

Quote away. I've always said that Democracy is effectively mob rule.

I agree. I am a believer in proportional representation. I think a true democracy should be will of the majority except where it tramples the rights of the minorities. ie. Majorities should not be able to deny the minorities any rights they enjoy.

IOW, yes, I think minorities should have a veto when they are denied rights enjoyed by the majority.

 

[nietzschefan]

Only if they possess nuclear weapons.

 

[Orleander]

so its kind of like the majority of wolves outvoting the sheep on what to have for dinner.

Whites in America are in for a rude awakening when Hispanics become the majority.