Shooting at CANADIAN School!?

[Absane]

The first american who starts talking about guns has an unfit psyche to handle guns.

I don't know. I can handle a gun quite fine.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Here we go. Before I clicked on the link to open this thread I was thinking: "blame America."

Does anyone have orginal thoughts anymore?

Let's blame VIDEO GAMES!

Oh wait... that doesn't work.

Let's just give these kids Adderall and things will be O.K.! Then, we can tell his parents that it isn't their fault... it's society's fault. Let's just alleviate blame from those closest to the "victim of America."

It's actually a cultural thing. Canadians are raising their kids more like americans are doing. That's the problem. Too much american culture...

 

[TruthSeeker]

Neildo, the gun homicide rate in america (per person - not overall), is 10 times the rate it is in australia, and 30 times what it is in Britain!

if I lived in usa i'd own a gun too.


year 2000 (per 100,000)

United States 3.72
Canada 0.76
AUS 0.44
england/wales 0.11

I read that paper neildo.
Where are they getting their stats from?

even this website shows very different stats
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html

Thank you. Good info.

 

[TruthSeeker]

It's funny, odd and strange ......practically everything that happened in Montreal was ILLEGAL, yet y'all want to add more fuckin' laws?!! Laws didn't stop the fuckin' killin', what makes y'all think a new gun LAW would have stopped it??!! ...LOL!

Y'all think that the shooter would have obeyed the NEW gun law .....moreso than any of the others that he violated?

Baron Max

I agree.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Its a culture problem in the US, not a law problem. Just look at Hollywood movies. After all, the Swiss all have guns practically, but don't seem to have the same problems as the US.

Precisely. It's not even violence in movies that do it. It's the selfish greedy culture that does it. MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME!!!! That's the problem!

 

[TruthSeeker]

I think the swiss stats are usually abused a bit by pro-gun lobbyists (not referring to you).

There just happens to be a automatic weapon in every house because it is the law.

Isn't that because of the way their armed forces work? Correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[TruthSeeker]

A gun without ammo is nothing but a damned expensive club ....and not a good one at that!

Baron Max

They carry guns because they are part of the armed forces. You see, Switzerland doesn't have a large population. So pretty much everyone is involved in defending the country (or so I heard). Their gun laws are just a reflection of that. They won't use guns to kill each other, like americans do.

 

[TruthSeeker]

See, Spurious, you're just a frothing-at-the-mouth hater of all things American. How can anyone believe anything that you say? Your bias is sooooo transparent and radical that it's unbelievable.

Baron Max

It's you, the biased one...

 

[TruthSeeker]

Me? Biased? I don't see how you can say that, Spurious, because I hardly ever say anything. I ask a lot of questions, but seldom, if ever, make any statements or assertions.

Baron Max

Have you counted how many statements you made in this thread?

 

[TimeTraveler]

See, Spurious, you're just a frothing-at-the-mouth hater of all things American. How can anyone believe anything that you say? Your bias is sooooo transparent and radical that it's unbelievable.

Baron Max

Look who's talking, aren't you the guy who said racism is good? You hate all things black.

 

[TimeTraveler]

If you accuse me of being biased and radical you DO make a statement.

I've read your posts too, you've made racist comments too, but unlike Baron I think you actually are a hater.

 

[TimeTraveler]

Changing where one lives, will not change ones gentic make up.

Actually it does after enough generations.

 

[TimeTraveler]

All their references are cited also showing the year of the governments stat report. The key difference between our studies is that your links are showing old information. I especially love this part:



Uh, yeah, that website shows very different stats, heh. It shows Australia's homicide numbers from 1994, lol! Most of the countries listed there are from '93 and '94, obviously they're gonna be way different, heh. Try looking at their numbers afterwards and even now. What I find amusing is that the low numbers you cite of Australia, which shows em in '94, they're lower and this was during the years guns were legal. Now that guns are banned, your violent crime rates are worse than before and have finally surpassed the U.S. (barely, but for the UK, it's a lot worse than Australia)! A pity you traded a meager decrease in gun crimes for a larger increase in violent crimes as a whole. I'd love to hear the logic is preferring that. For the longest time though, your violent crime rates have remained about the same, and that's before and after the gun ban which just goes to show, guns don't play much of a factor otherwise there'd be a huge decrease, right? All that's been done is a change of tools to get the job done. Dead is dead and you no longer have the great equilizer of a tool to defend yourself with, opening you up to be an even bigger and more helpless victim.



And that one, it's just a website showing an article from '97 and put a timestamp of 2000 on it to make it sound like current news. Yeah, the first year that the gun ban was in place, gun crimes dropped. However, non-gun violent crime rates began to soar. Not only that, but gun crimes began to soon increase once criminals replenished their supply of any confiscated guns. Those types of laws only disarm law-abiding citizens. Criminals don't follow laws. When will you guys get that through your thick skulls? You cannot stop gun crimes. That's not even the important part, you cannot stop violent crimes to begin with! While you decreased gun crimes, you increased violent crimes as a whole. Criminals don't need a gun to commit a crime. Victims sure do need em to defend themselves better though because otherwise the odds will usually always be in the favor of the assaulter.




What you show there is mentioned in my study. They both state that. You aren't getting the point of the file I showed you.

The main point of the Frasier Institute paper is that while gun crimes have lowered, violent crimes as a whole have increased big time. So while you lowered gun homicides, you've increased homicides as a whole. Could be part of lack of proper defense that guns gave, or whatever. We do know though that guns aren't such the huge factor in crimes as people make you think. You can get rid of guns, but your violent crime rate won't decrease because of it. The only thing that will change is violent crimes that involve a gun, which even then criminals still have easy access to guns. Nothing will stop a criminal from commiting their crime.

Guns aren't a required tool to kill someone. You can be killed with anything. Knives are the most common weapon used in assaults. Getting rid of guns does not stop crime. More crimes are prevented each year using a gun in a defensive manner than they do being used in a crime. And in case you ask:



Guns are the ultimate tool to balance or tip the scales in one's favor. If you take a stronger physical assault vs a wimpier vicitim, the criminal wins. If you take a criminal with a knife vs a victim left with their bare hands, the criminal will most likely win. If you put any weapon in the hands of a criminal yet a gun in the hands of a victim, the victim will most likely win. Even if the criminal is using a gun as well, the odds are more even if the victim has a gun than any other combination of tools between the two, and heck it can even tip the scale in the victim's favor especially when the assaulter doesn't know if the victim is armed or not as they usually aren't.

If you ask a criminal who they fear the most, they don't say the police, they say a citizen with a gun. Criminals don't know whether or not a victim is armed, and since most people aren't armed, they're usually underestimated. Not only that, but police most follow protocol whereas a regular person usually doesn't have to. When a criminal enters someone's home, they usually don't know the layout of the home or if the victim is armed. No need to worry about the police as they won't arrive for a good 5 minutes even in an emergency. But once they hear the warning of the loud crack of a shotgun getting locked and loaded, their ass runs like hell. Someone defending their home isn't going to show a criminal the same mercy as a police officer using protocol.

But anyways, while you state that firearm homicides declined in the first year, they started to get back on the rise, which the study shows. Heck, the UK has more strict gun laws than Australia yet:



Face it, gun laws don't work. They don't stop violent crimes from happening. Nor do they even stop gun crimes from happening. Criminals will always have guns. Sure, you may lower the death rate of accidental deaths and whatnot by a law-abiding citizen, but that's left in the dust due to the increase in crime rates now that victims don't have adequate means to defend themselves with, especially vs a criminal with a gun. I'd love to put up a sign that reads "HEY CRIMINALS, THAT HOUSE DOESN'T HAVE A GUN!" and we'll see who gets robbed and assaulted first. Have faith in your local police department in protecting you when the criminal is in your house and you just now called the cops and they won't be there for at least another 5 minutes. You sure you wanna wait that long when the criminal is at your door, or worse, your childs?

I'm also curious as to why you fear guns so much when:



4/5 of your firearms deaths were from suicides, not from someone murdering another. And what's amusing is that while most of those firearm deaths were from suicides, only 5% of the suicides involved firearms, heh. Just goes to show you how little firearm homicides there were and how preferred a tool everything else is compared to guns. Exactly why your violent crime rates continue to increase despite your gun control. Crimes will continue to happen regardless, and guns aren't as common a tool as you think.

"It is an illusion that gun bans protect the public. No law, no matter how restrictive, can protect us from people who decide to commit violent crimes. Maybe we should crack down on criminals rather than hunters and target shooters?" - Gary Mauser

- N

Most killings are actually poisonings not gun. But you know, gun control freaks think that by taking away all the guns, they can help their criminal buddies take over the city. Look, if you take all the guns and put them in one place, all the criminals will either go to that one place, or bribe people in that place and still get access to the guns. Criminals have access to every kinda weapon known to man, they are like mini armies, with unlimited money, unlimited weapons, and a lot of man power.

What do you expect to do? Arrest them all? The real criminals will arrest you and put you in jail, then sue your parents and rob you of your house and then call their buddies in jail to make sure you get raped and harrassed by the various gangs there.

Criminals run the jails, some criminals actually have great lawyers, and some criminals even bribe judges. The only defense the USA has against criminals are organizations such as the FBI, and other secret police forces. These secret police forces help out, but they cannot stop ALL crime, because crime is so widespread and broad and people only look in to catch the stuipd, weakest most vulerable types of criminals.

Druglords rarely get in trouble, mafia kingpins almost never get caught. Yeah John Gotti was caught, but thats not a normal situation. Crime families operate for decades, sometimes centuries, and they don't get caught because if you've been operating for over 100 years you'll know more about the system than most of the young police officers.

In any system, anyone can be bribed, or almost anyone, from any level from the bottom to the very top. Corruption is what fuels crime, and corruption was not created in America. Despite what America haters want to think. Also, stop trying to say that only black people commit crime because black and hispanics get caught all the time. Getting caught more simply means you arent as good at it.

The best criminals don't get caught, in fact the best criminals can't get caught. We still have not found Whitey Bulger, that guy was a super criminal. He was and is literally uncatchable and untouchable. Read up about him.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

I've read your posts too, you've made racist comments too, but unlike Baron I think you actually are a hater.

Show the racist comments. Otherwise I will report you for falsely accusing me of racism.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Isn't that because of the way their armed forces work? Correct me if I'm wrong...

Yes, people keep their guns and home and 50 or so rounds so they can quickly mobilize. The Swiss army is rather small so they have to compensate for this in other ways. One is the quick mobilization. Whereas it would take weeks to mobilize the US Army, it takes only a day in Switserland.

The Swiss are quite a disciplined people. The gun laws are also actually rather strict. That is the gun abuse laws. Guns are not used for self defense. The gun is locked away safely.

People like Time traveller do not understand that not every society is corrupt to the core like theirs.

The swiss have guns to quickly react to military threats. Not for self defense. Not for defense against their own government.

 

[TimeTraveler]

I don't believe that corruption in America is so out-of-control that you need to carry guns.

Let the police do the crime-fighting?

Take a walk through south central and see if you change your mind.

 

[TimeTraveler]

Yes, people keep their guns and home and 50 or so rounds so they can quickly mobilize. The Swiss army is rather small so they have to compensate for this in other ways. One is the quick mobilization. Whereas it would take weeks to mobilize the US Army, it takes only a day in Switserland.

The Swiss are quite a disciplined people. The gun laws are also actually rather strict. That is the gun abuse laws. Guns are not used for self defense. The gun is locked away safely.

People like Time traveller do not understand that not every society is corrupt to the core like theirs.

The swiss have guns to quickly react to military threats. Not for self defense. Not for defense against their own government.

Every society is corrupt. Because in every society you have corrupt people. Just because you don't pay attention to your corruption does not mean it cannot exist.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Every society is corrupt. Because in every society you have corrupt people. Just because you don't pay attention to your corruption does not mean it cannot exist.

We are not aiming for no corruption. We are aiming for minimal corruption.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Every society is corrupt. Because in every society you have corrupt people. Just because you don't pay attention to your corruption does not mean it cannot exist.

So you say there is no way to minimise corruption? To protect against it in any way? I mean every society has criminal elements but that doesnt mean you cant keep crime levels low.

 

[Baron Max]

I mean every society has criminal elements but that doesnt mean you cant keep crime levels low.

Most of the problem comes when society gives its citizens more and more individual freedoms, which in turn gives criminals more and more freedom to commit crimes ....the two go hand-in-hand.

A harsh, iron-fisted dictatorship gives little or not freedoms to its people, and thus enjoys very little crime. It's a control factor, if you will, a control of the people of the society ....the less control you have over citizens, the less control you have over the citizens who would do crime. Simple, huh?

Baron Max