Shadow Matter,Psi-phenomena and possible Survival of Human Personality"

Alexander1304

Registered Senior Member
I've recently read(partially) the book written by G.D.Wasserman "Shadow Matter and Psi-phenomena and possible Survival of Human Personality".
Here is description from Amazon: "A scientist casts new light on psychic phenomena, such as clairvoyance, telepathy, and 'out of body experiences'. He presents an exciting new theory which explains such phenomena, linking the recently discovered 'Shadow Matter' world of physics with parapsychology. It replaces notions of the occult with important new ideas that are figuring in physics (even in recent television programmes). The book contains case histories, showing how this new theory could account for telepathy, clairvoyance, 'out of the body experiences', and apparitions of the living and the dead in terms of Shadow Matter. It also explains how Shadow Matter theory could account for the survival of the human personality after death of the body. The author builds on theories until now discussed only in academic journals. This theory was first published in brief outline in the journal Inquiry in 1988. It develops the concept of the Shadow Matter world introduced in the journal Nature in 1985. Suitable for general readers interested in new developments in science; general readers interested in parapsychology and the occult; specialists and scholars, especially in physics, chemistry, biology, psychology, philosophy and medicine."

What do you guys think about it?So far it doesn't seem that this theory got much acceptance in the scientific circles.
 
To my knowledge, there is not one single documented case of telepathy, clairvoyance, or any other 'supernatural' phenomena in modern history.

Stories are not evidence, no matter how sincere the storyteller may appear to be.

All I have to do to have an 'out of body' experience is to alter my brain chemistry (drugs/alcohol) or reduce the amount of oxygen to the brain.
 
To my knowledge, there is not one single documented case of telepathy, clairvoyance, or any other 'supernatural' phenomena in modern history.

Stories are not evidence, no matter how sincere the storyteller may appear to be.

Ok,so maybe the better question should be - how much evidence is there,that the shadow matter really exists?And if it does - how its existence may form our "shadow bodies/brains"?
 
Ok,so maybe the better question should be - how much evidence is there,that the shadow matter really exists?And if it does - how its existence may form our "shadow bodies/brains"?

Again, to my knowledge, none. No evidence. I am assuming you mean shadow matter as hypothesized by supersymmetry.

There remains no evidence of the particles predicted by strings. Not to say they don't exist, but in any case, such hypothesized matter is apparently quite reluctant to interact with or affect known matter/energy in a measurable way. So far.

Of course, I know next to nothing about strings. I'm sure the experts here will correct me on this.

As I recall, the major powers spent a lot of time and money exploring telepathy/telekinesis during and after the cold war. I beleve all experiments proved unsuccessful. Every self-professed physic willing to be tested has failed to perform under laboratory conditions.

There remains a pervasive myth that we only use 10% of our brains. If only we could figure out what the other 90% is for ...

Well, we now know we use all of our brains. Just not all of it at the same time. Or more accurately, the brain is never 100%, fully engaged.

As far as I know, one thousand people with 'special abilities' working together could not materially alter so much as a blade of grass, let alone anything bigger. Seems kind of useless, really.

I vaguely remember a case where a famous 'psychic' supposedly was able to locate the body of a murder victim. Whether or not this actually happened, I don't know. But I do know that there was never any scientific proof that occult powers were responsible.
 
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Here is description from Amazon: "A scientist
Given the crap he talks about I'm inclined to question whether 'scientist' is a valid label.

linking the recently discovered 'Shadow Matter' world of physics
Citation please.

It also explains how Shadow Matter theory could account for the survival of the human personality after death of the body.
Before a model can 'account' for something its required that that 'something' is demonstrated to exist. There's no evidence the human personality continues after death.

The author builds on theories until now discussed only in academic journals.
Citation needed.

What do you guys think about it?So far it doesn't seem that this theory got much acceptance in the scientific circles.
Pile of crap.
 
Well, he was lecturer in applied mathematics at the University of Newcastle upon Tyne.
"There's no evidence the human personality continues after death."

Hi cites cases for parapsychilogical sites,that suggest that.That is topic for another debate,though...
 
Well, he was lecturer in applied mathematics at the University of Newcastle upon Tyne.
"There's no evidence the human personality continues after death."

Hi cites cases for parapsychilogical sites,that suggest that.That is topic for another debate,though...

You should probably not post in sciforums. Go to some less important forum like Cerebrals, your beliefs might get more action there.
 
Given the crap he talks about I'm inclined to question whether 'scientist' is a valid label.

Citation please.

Before a model can 'account' for something its required that that 'something' is demonstrated to exist. There's no evidence the human personality continues after death.

Citation needed.

Pile of crap.

You should probably not post in sciforums. Go to some less important forum like Cerebrals, your beliefs might get more action there.
I have no belief.I have to admit that I'm gullible and ill-informed person,and easy believe whatever theroy I read...therefore other ,more informed opinions may better form my attitude to the matter...
 
From the site ...

http://www.mandrake.uk.net/gwassermann.htm

Born in Leipzig, his family came to Britain in 1936. A Biologist and Philosopher, he graduated from Queen Mary College, University of London with first class Honours in Mathematics, and then obtained a Ph.D. in Quantum Mechanics from the University of London. After working for a while in Theoretical Acoustics (horn design) with Tannoy Products, he was invited by (the later) Nobel Laureate Sir Neville Mott to join his department at Bristol as Research Assistant to Prof. Herbert Fröhlich FRS.

In his career the author did research in Quantum Mechanics, Theoretical Optics, Theoretical Developmental Biology, Theory of Evolution. Biophilosophy, Philosophy of Science and Philosophy of Mind. He published many papers in prestigious journals (subject to peer review) and seven books. A Fellow of the Institute of Mathematics and its Applications and was elected in 1989 as a Fellow of the Institute of Biology and awarded a DSc from the University of London.

Professor Wasserman developed a major theory of paranormal phenomena which was published in the journal Nature, and later in book form as Shadow Matter And Psychic Phenomena and the sequel Consciousness & Near Death Experiences.

‘Dear Dr. Wassermann,


Having read your book, "Consciousness and Near Death Experiences", I wondered if you might be interested in my experience: I had a NDE, an OBE and was seen by a doctor in a different location, all at the same time.

Aged 28, in [...] Hospital, I underwent extensive surgery to my spine. All went well but because of having to be immobilized for a long time, I became ill, with, I believe, a post operative thrombosis and also a urinary infection. I did not feel aware of being ill, although I was in pain and felt "hot and cold". I found myself above the bed, looking down at someone in the bed - I did not at first recognise it as being me. I then thought how well the surgery had worked, because I could move about.

I floated to the other end of the ward, to see a lady, M[. . . ], who had had two hip replacements - this was a new operation in 1965, and I was concerned for her. I noticed that she had a white cotton seersucker nightgown, patterned with little bunches of roses: on her left sleeve was a price tag from Marks & Spencer's, for 29/11 (old money); what troubled me was that the metal clip was still on the ticket, and I was afraid that M[...] might be hurt by the sharp clip. I tried to make her hear me, but could not do so. When I tried to touch her, to draw her attention, my hand went through her. I suddenly had the thought that I was out of my body - and probably either dead or to about to die, and I think I panicked slightly.

I felt suddenly comfortable, and found myself in a little boat, floating along a shaft of light that shone over water, towards what appeared to be an island, where the light had its origin. I could hear wonderful music. I felt no pain, no distress, and was feeling very peaceful. I met no one, but could hear singing. A sudden jerk brought me back above my bed, from where I could see myself and the young doctor who was looking after me, another doctor and some nurses. They had some machinery, and were about to put orangey yellow round things on my chest - there was an audible bang, and I was back in my body, looking up at my doctor, and asking why he had brought me back, as I was now in pain again.

Later, the doctor told me that he had been off duty, and in a public house with friends, when he had seen me, "Floating up above the optics, waving and saying "Bye, T[..], I'm going now"" He had left at once, hurried to the hospital, to my ward, where he asked after me. Told that no-one had heard a "peep out of her all night" he discovered that I was in fact "going now" - and had summoned the resuscitation unit.

What has interested me is that in all the reports that I have subsequently read of NDEs and OBEs, no one has been seen, by another person, while they were experiencing their NDE or OBE - in my case, the doctor was not even in the hospital when he became aware of me - and I was not aware that I had "contacted" him, although we had found much in common in the short time that we had known each other, so there was some friendly rapport. He stayed with me for many hours, after my resuscitation, arguing with me about literature, to stop me from "going away again" - he knew that I would stay to argue with him if he told me that Shelley wrote rubbish!

My first experience of any psychic phenomena was in the summer of 1938, before I was a year old (I was born [ . . .]) when I was in my cot by my mother's bed, with a family party going on in the next room: I saw a lady and gentleman billow through the wall - I began to scream, because I already knew that people used doors, and while I could not explain, my mother must have realised that I was scared, because she brought a night light into the room, although it was summer and still light outside ( she invariably put me to bed at 6pm, until I was six or seven years old). I continued to see and hear people "who were not really there", but learned not to say anything about it, until, in my late 40s, I started to attend a Spiritualist Church, where my "gift" was recognised and I was not made to feel guilty - I now work as a "Medium", although never for money or reward of any kind. I am sure that many people have psychic experiences, but, like me, they do not talk about such things because such things are considered to be either unhealthy or insane.

Finally, I would like to thank you for your book, which I find very interesting, fair-minded, and helpful. It is good to find that Science is catching up with a very ordinary human experience!

With sincere respects

S [...]

PS I should have added that the price tag on M [...]'s nightgown was confirmed as correct.’

Astonishing memory. One year old. Yikes. Well, I'm glad she no longer feels guilty.

Ever hear about John of God? Millions are convinced of his powers, his direct connection to ancient 'doctors' and to the Lord Himself.

Of course, he makes a ton of money, tax free, and supports an entire village off the desperation of those who are suffering. No matter how many charlatans are exposed, the faithful just flock to the next one.

It never ends.
 
So,you guy think,that this theory of possible existence of "shadow matter" and its possible relevance to psi/survival in not worth thinkinng about?I'm honestly asking,I have no idea...
 
Hundreds of billions of human beings have existed in the last 200,000 years.

Where are all their personalities?

If they exist (presumably eternally), they aren't having much fun in our 4 dimensional universe.

It's easy to see why these beliefs would persist. People don't like the idea of their existence ending for all time. After all, we tend to believe we are a very 'special' and entitled species, right? We deserve to live forever.

I think shadow matter is a worthwhile field of inquiry. I see little benefit in exploring 'psi' anything, as there is no actual evidence of this hypothesized phenomenon and all tests have come up negative.
 
David Deutsch, many worlds, postulates shadow photons to explain the double slit experiment. photons aren't matter though but maybe it extends to explain the electron double slit results. just a thought.
 
It develops the concept of the Shadow Matter world introduced in the journal Nature in 1985.


Can you provide the reference for the Nature article? I might look it up only to confirm what I already know with a 0.99 probability. The author has taken a piece of legitimate science and grossly misinterpreted it to fit his woo-woo beliefs.
 
Can you provide the reference for the Nature article? I might look it up only to confirm what I already know with a 0.99 probability. The author has taken a piece of legitimate science and grossly misinterpreted it to fit his woo-woo beliefs.
Sorry,I still don't count 11 posts,so cannot post links.But if you google "The shadow world of superstring theories" - it will come up
 
As yet there is no evidence that even a soul exists. So I ask you, how can an unknown quantity be controlled by another unknown quantity (shadow matter) in an unknown way be suitable fodder for any self-respecting science fan, let alone scientist. It is science fiction pure and simple, and is no territory anybody with any credibility to venture into. The fact that nobody of scientific quality or note endorses it should tell you everything you need to know about it. If the book was free, it would still be a waste of good trees.
 
David Deutsch, many worlds, postulates shadow photons to explain the double slit experiment. photons aren't matter though but maybe it extends to explain the electron double slit results. just a thought.

I see MWI as just another one of humanity's egocentric fantasies. It astounds me that it is given any credence, or validity.

Let's assume for the moment that every 'event' (choice, measurement, branch, whatever) down to the subatomic creates an additional 'world/universe'. Let's assume that conservation of energy is not violated ~ that there is an infinite store of energy at every 'point'.

Let's multiply this by every 'event' that has ever occurred at any point in the Hubble volume. Do the measurements completed by every alien on their world(s) effect our reality? Does every random motion on the quantum scale anywhere and everywhere create new branches, all branching off exponentially, and all coexisting?

What if the 4D space we already 'know' exists is infinite, with no boundaries? What if there are an infinite number of Hubble volumes in existence, every branch creating a new reality? With an infinite number of realities already existing and increasing in number exponentially at an infinite rate?

I think there are just some things the universe won't allow. Infinitely small and dense is one. Infinite complete universes coexisting in the same physical point/space is another.

Schrodinger's Cat is either alive or dead. Once you have designed the parameters of the experiment, and set them into motion, from that point forward, at any given point in time, the cat is either alive or dead. At any given point in time, an atom has decayed and triggered the release of gas, or it has not. Never both. Once we open the box, we will determine the status of the cat. Until we open the box it doesn't matter. Except to the cat.

Perhaps my view of the universe is too simplistic. I would counter that the views of many are too ridiculously complex.

Occam's Razor.
 
As yet there is no evidence that even a soul exists. So I ask you, how can an unknown quantity be controlled by another unknown quantity (shadow matter) in an unknown way be suitable fodder for any self-respecting science fan, let alone scientist. It is science fiction pure and simple, and is no territory anybody with any credibility to venture into. The fact that nobody of scientific quality or note endorses it should tell you everything you need to know about it. If the book was free, it would still be a waste of good trees.
Thanks,ULTRA.Well said!I also wonder,if this theory is credible indeed,why it doesn't seem to be accepted in mainstream science?Moreover,why we haven't heard about some similar theory,that is product of science,not occult?
After all,this theory was first formulated in 1993.
There is only one scientific review on Internet(pretty critical) made by Douglas Stokes.Here is something from this review,that really resembles science fiction: "The experimental evidence for precognition does not, of course, count in Wassermann's mind. After presenting a few spontaneous cases suggestive of precognition, he finally feels compelled to offer an account of the phenomenon in terms of his theory. He devotes a mere three pages to it, but what a three pages they are. He proposes that shadow matter copies of the entire Earth are continually being manufactured. These copies then shrink to a small size, enabling them to interact with the brain of percipients. Because time is accelerated on these shrunken copies of the Earth, a percipient may be able to peer into a future state of the world when he interacts with one of these miniature copies of the planet."
 
Well, he was lecturer in applied mathematics at the University of Newcastle upon Tyne.
While better than an internet crank this doesn't make what he says true. Josephson is a professor at Cambridge with a Nobel Prize but he's bat shit crazy and banned from posting his work on www.arxiv.org . Where are the peer reviewed published papers on this stuff?

"There's no evidence the human personality continues after death."

Hi cites cases for parapsychilogical sites,that suggest that.That is topic for another debate,though...
Where are the peer reviewed published papers on this stuff?

So,you guy think,that this theory of possible existence of "shadow matter" and its possible relevance to psi/survival in not worth thinkinng about?I'm honestly asking,I have no idea...
There's tons of viable ideas about new forms of matter, some of which are being actively tested by the LHC right now. Can this stuff relate to psi powers and life after death? First you must demonstrate such things exist, then you must demonstrate that new form of matter exists, then you must demonstrate a clear link between them. Currently none of those have been done.

I don't discount that life after death might be possible but every single thing we know about science fails to provide justification for it. Thus if someone is going to convince me (and the rest of the scientific community) they have got to present a **** ton of evidence which stands up to scientific scrutiny.

I see MWI as just another one of humanity's egocentric fantasies. It astounds me that it is given any credence, or validity.
While I don't hold a good view of the MWI which involves "Every decision you make is done in every possible way in another universe" like sci-fi shows use but the notion there are other universes isn't as outlandish. All it would mean is there are regions of space-time you cannot get to by just moving through space in the usual way. Just as I can't walk from Britain to America without using a boat or plane it might be there are pockets of space-time separate from one another in that particles can't 'walk' from one to the other.
 
“ Originally Posted by Alexander1304
I see MWI as just another one of humanity's egocentric fantasies. It astounds me that it is given any credence, or validity. ”

While I don't hold a good view of the MWI which involves "Every decision you make is done in every possible way in another universe" like sci-fi shows use but the notion there are other universes isn't as outlandish. All it would mean is there are regions of space-time you cannot get to by just moving through space in the usual way. Just as I can't walk from Britain to America without using a boat or plane it might be there are pockets of space-time separate from one another in that particles can't 'walk' from one to the other.

Actually, that was my statement, not Alexander's. I do not disagree with your point.
 
While other universes help with math-models of the universe there is no empirical evidence that they actually exist at all. It's rather like the dimension theory that claims up to 11 or more dimensions as discussed in conjunction with string and quantum theory. We think they exist because the math suggests ther are there, but that doesn't make it so. The theory is moulded to fit the math, not the other way round as is usual.
To begin to understand anything we first have to provide at least a realistic probability something exists. Even though people have been searching, sometimes desperately (there was a huge interest after WW1 when people wanted to contact those thousands killed in battle) but still nothing but fakes have ever been found.
 
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