Sex and Hypocracy

[deathrose]

I am going to try and set this up as clearly as possible, but please forgive me if your thourally confuzed. i would also like to state i am bisexual and an atheist to boot. (makes family dinner with the catholics really fun ;p) so perhaps my own views of life compromise my ability to stand in someone elses shoes.

i just want some insight into a position i dont understand. this should prbably be in the religeon section but it deals more with the morality than the religeon. I have a friend who is a right wing christian. he has tried on several occasions to convince me that homosexuality is wrong because his god and this old book say so. yet, he has tried to convince his girlfriend to be part of a three way with him, and he is for some reason excited by the idea of watching two women together. He is also sexually active to begin with. given the staples of his relegion, how can he defend his belief that two men is morally wrong when he himself has had sex before marraige and wishes to indulge with two women? i dont understand the level of hypocracy presented in hte situation and approaching him about it has lead to me almost losing him as a friend. it presents an interesting paradox, so i would like some input, how can a person use one set of morals to defend their postition, while blatantly throughing out that same set in thier actions?

 

[Adam]

How can he? He's a hypocrite, that's how. Pretty simple really.

 

[Tyler]

"how can a person use one set of morals to defend their postition, while blatantly throughing out that same set in thier actions?"

This is really another question altogether, as it deals with more normal folk than your friend. What you have said happens day in, day out, to a lesser degree than with your friend. For example, many people believe in a "sanctity of life" and yet are eager to go to war at any turn. Some people preach pacifism and, well, pacifism at an absolute is almost guaranteed hypocricy. Nazism proved that.

So why do people act like hypocrits? Generally either from indoctrination or simply because it benefits them. Or both, actually.

Your friend, and I say this knowing almost nothing about him, is likely aware that he is hypocritical in his belief and is really just trying to validate himself by pushing the anti-gay-man thing to the limit. That or he's simply a damn idiot.

 

[spookz]

well it is extremely complicated and touches upon a multitude of disciplines but for the sake of expediency, i will summarize it thusly

the nature of a erect penis

• It has its own agenda. Somehow, no matter how good your intentions, it will warp your behavior. Later you may ask yourself, "Why on earth did I do that?"
  
• It has no conscience and no memory. Left to its own devices, it will do the same damn dumb things it did before.

cheers! hope that helps!
sincerely
spook

 

[The Marquis]

Deathrose :

Everyones a hypocrite in some ways. You only need to have a look around these boards, and you'll see it soon enough, especially in the ones who like to think they are not.

Welcome.

 

[deathrose]

alright let me try this agian, some insight would be nice. i understand that people, especially those in the cult of christianity (no offense is intended this is simply my opinion) are hypocrites, however shouldnt the persons own morals that they so dearly cling to kick in at some point? how can logic escape some to such a degree? is it all just a hate that needs an outlet whatever the from, is it that without some outward conflict to focus our energies on we must turn our attention inward, does that scare people so bad? to look inside and see what you are? im babbling now, so ill quit.

 

[spacemanspiff]

a religious hypocrite?
i'm going to need some time to process that...


and yeah everyone is to some degree, somepeople are just better at it.

 

[Xev]

how can logic escape some to such a degree?

Umm, he's Christian?

is it all just a hate that needs an outlet whatever the from, is it that without some outward conflict to focus our energies on we must turn our attention inward, does that scare people so bad? to look inside and see what you are? im babbling now, so ill quit.

Straight men are intimidated by two guys fucking, turned on by two girls fucking. In general. Their morals are just whatever they've been raised to believe, so there's no real conviction there.

 

[The Marquis]

is it that without some outward conflict to focus our energies on we must turn our attention inward, does that scare people so bad? to look inside and see what you are?

You'll probably find as time goes by that most people will never even get that far. For those who do, it scares the living shit out of them, and they run from it.

 

[step314]

given the staples of his relegion, how can he defend his belief that two men is morally wrong when he himself has had sex before marraige and wishes to indulge with two women?

Well, he doesn't sound very orthodox Christian to me, but he's sort of right. Male homosexuality is disgusting because it involves sodomy (putting semen into the digestive system), and not because it involves homosexuality per-se. Female-female/male bisexuality on the other hand is rather special. See my post in "Homosexuality, what's the big deal" (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16666 ) for the details. In fact, somehow when I was posting that post I was thinking that deathrose's original post in this thread was part of the original post in that thread--I remembered wrong, I guess. One possibility to help determine whether he is basically hypocrite would be to ask his position on a male committing sodomy on a female.

 

[Asguard]

RIGHT

i like to suck a guy thats evil, Xev likes to lick out a girl thats hot???????????????????

 

[step314]

RIGHT

i like to suck a guy thats evil, Xev likes to lick out a girl thats hot???????????????????

Nah, female pelvis licking is kind of gross, too. What's hot to me is females putting the fronts of their waists together to increase their lust, or semen going back-and-forth between several female reproductive tracts (thereby selecting for spermatozoa able to survive going between several different female environments).

 

[Q25]

Originally posted by deathrose


I have a friend who is a right wing christian. he has tried on several occasions to convince me that homosexuality is wrong because his god and this old book say so.

maybe he didnt read the WHOLE book,or maybe someone deleted certain parts from it,see here;
www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/
click on Jesus (gay)?

 

[Weiser_Dub]

Originally posted by deathrose
shouldnt the persons own morals that they so dearly cling to kick in at some point?

Glaring oversight: You assume this person HAS morals.

Oh, and about this religion thing...

To base argument on religion and say it's proven according to this or that book is, well, LUDICROUS. The whole concept of religion is FAITH - not proveable. Of course it's hypocritical, but who cares. We all will be at some point. You can try to keep it to a minimum. Or, you could just have fun.

 

[Energy]

My stars

Although this is going to sound religious, I think it fits here.

how can a person use one set of morals to defend their postition, while blatantly throughing out that same set in thier actions?

The same way you might, most likely, if you have a bad habit you are trying to kick and can't seem to do it- you compartmentalize your mind and body so that they exist on two seperate planes. Your friend has done the same thing, it would seem, and has made 'knowing' and 'doing' two completely different things. Paul calls it (in summary) 'scarring the conscience.' You give in to sin (or any activity, like overeating), once and it feels bad for a while. But then the next time it's easier, and easier, until that little voice that tells you what you're doing is wrong has... disappeared.

It is unfortunate that people are hypocritical, yes, even those who are religious. What you must understand, deathrose, is that when he's trying to convert you from bisexuality, he is (in a sense, and for just that moment) the voice of the Bible. He is telling you what the Bible says, and speaking to you as a friend. However, a messenger who delivers scrolls for the king is not the king, and neither is your friend, delivering guidance from what he believes to be God's word, God Himself. All people are fallen, including the religious and even spiritual. The only reason you choose to regard these people as hypocritical (and it is your choice to do so, remember) is because they know in their minds that the actions they are engaging in are wrong (if they are actually reading the Scriptures) and proclaim that fact.
Also, might

About the Jesus being gay thing, please. Don't even begin to approach that angle. Not only do all of his apostles strictly teach against it, which would incline me to believe that the 'secret gospel is fake' (when all but one source says one fact, it is logical to assume that the one source is wrong or deceitful), who is this man who supposedly found the secret gospel? What are his credentials? What has he done to deserve trust? Do we know any facts about the 'secret gospel,' or have a written copy? How does he know it was given secretly to those who wished to 'expand their knowledge? How does he know the letter wasn't a deception itself? How is it that there is apparently only one copy?

As for sodomy, remember that the Biblical precept (and therefore the one that is most generally understood as 'sinful' by the moral right wing) is the first two definitions in the Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary:
1) The homosexual proclivities of the men in the city in Gen 19:1-11, and
2) Copulation with a member of the same sex or with an animal.

The later, third definition (anal and oral sex), came after, a cultural definition implied by homosexuality (that only those two kinds of copulation are possible in same-sex male couplings). So the actual 'sin of sodomy' is that which is described in the book of Genesis, chapter 19, not the cultural definition.

As for your friend trying to set up a three-way, Darkrose, simply turn the Good Book on him.
Romans 3:13- Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissensions and jealously.
Galatians 5:19-26- (too long for me to write here)
1 Peter 4:3- for you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do- Living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing, and detestable idolatry.
Perhaps you can re-stimulate his conscience. Get him off your back while at the same time, hopefully, getting him in line with the moral precepts he claims to believe.