September 11 Revisited

WANDERER

Banned
Banned
Innocence Lost
Now that the anniversary of the September 11 bombings comes and goes and people are forced to focus once more upon that historic day, the question, for one more time, arises in many minds or is whispered openly like a curse: What kind of people could do such a thing, what sort of human beings can be responsible for so much death and destruction, what type of men can inflict so much misery upon “innocent” civilians with no thought to their personal survival or the many victims they will take with them?
The answer in my mind is simple and quit obvious.
If one needs to see what kind of person can do such violent deeds driven by raw emotion, illogical passion and blind faith, all they have to do is proceed to their local church, synagogue or temple and look in; if one is curious about what sort of human beings these “insane”, “”evil” suicidal hijackers were, all they have to do is open their front doors and look at their complacent, unquestioning, undoubting neighbors; if one is desperate to discover what type of men can inflict so much mindless pain and suffering upon others in the name of a supposed “God”, they only supposedly know intimately and who’s wishes they follow or in the name of an ideal they are certain about and harbor no secret doubt on, all they have to do is open their TV’s and tune into the Sunday religious morning shows or into the nationalistic, corporate, propaganda machines calling themselves News shows.
These misdirected individuals that can board a plane and with no apparent second thought take it over and crash it into the side of a building or that can strap bombs around their waists and detonate them in the middle of crowded public streets taking themselves and all those around them into the dark void are not restricted to the Islamic faith or to a particular faith, ideology or nationality. In fact when we look back into history we see that Christians and all other faiths-perhaps with the exception of Buddhism for various reasons-have produced in their history atrocities, violence, suffering and blind hate while all along preaching or pretending to represent the opposite values.
The only difference between these Muslim, fanatic, automatons and the Christian variety is a matter of geographical circumstances, environmental conditions, historic coincidences, prejudicial labels and nothing more.
When a theology, an ideology or a philosophy feels vulnerable and weak it lashes out in defense, like a cornered beast, and is forced into desperate actions as it struggles to survive and to maintain its existence, its relevance and its influence on the international scene. Every faith and ideology has, at times, created martyrs and has spread destruction and suffering in the world in the name of a hypothetical ideal and a theoretical entity. In fact the necessity for absolute acceptance of their dogmas is a prerequisite for admittance into their fold and strict obedience is demanded making personal sacrifices possible and self denial probable.
Today it is Islam that feels threatened by western power, globalization and internal insecurities; today it is Islam that feels cornered, desperate and facing extinction while western Christians sit back in comfort and safety pondering from their metaphysical high seat at the level of primitive belief that can lead to this kind of violence and secretly thanking their lucky stars that they were fortunate enough not to believe in so much nonsense that would make them take their own lives and that of others in vain; they sit in front of their televisions in self proclaimed moral superiority and holy righteousness and are thankful that they somehow have come to believe in the “one” “true” God, the one of love and compassion, and have not been tempted by Satan to believe in these violent theologies and primitive dogmas.
But, they forget or may not even be aware of the fact that, there was a time when the roles were reversed and it was Islam that held the high “moral” ground of power, security and cultural well-being and it was Islam that could afford to be socially open minded and tolerant of other faiths and it was Christianity that struggled to survive producing such monumental atrocities as the Crusades, the Holy Inquisitions, witch hunts, persecutions, wars, Papal decrees and inhumane behavior of all sorts while all the while doing it in the name of a just, compassionate, “good” and noble God.
So for them now to pretend, once again, to hold the superior, tolerant, moderate, civilized, ethical high ground and to be aghast at the conclusions weak, impressionable minds can come to when placed in environments of squalor and hopelessness or to hypocritically delude themselves that they are above such deeds and incapable of such blind ignorance is, to say the least, delusional, pathetic and, if not so dangerous, humorous as well.

The truth is that in order for the question: “What kinds of people could do such a thing?” to be answered in any objective way, we should not look to specific dogmas and religious mythologies nor should we isolate particular nationalities, cultures and races of man but we must become aware of the general human propensity to believe in self-satisfying and gratifying fairy tales and to accept theories on truth that benefit them or flatter them with absolute, indubitable and complete fanaticism in order to secure their personal psychological health or to escape the cold, hard reality that they cannot otherwise escape or come to terms with. To understand the roots of the September 11 bombings we must look into human evolutionary psychology, in the human ability to grasp at hope even when unjustified and possessing no logical argument in its defense and in human arrogance, emotionalism and instinctive genetically programmed behaviors.

There has been an effort made in the western press to eliminate the responsibilities of the west from the events of that day. Pundits, on TV news shows, escape western guilt by attempting the emotional monopolization of pain and avoiding an in-depth analysis of what lead to young middle-class men into feeling so helpless and hopeless as to succumb to religious brainwashing and to reach for the metaphysical life preserver religion possesses to entice weak characters and tragedy stricken, unfortunate individuals with.

The very characterization of these unsuspecting Twin Tower victims as “innocent” reveals an avoidance of the liability of citizens in the acts of their elected officials and attempts to avoid the social implications of a consumer society, drunk on processed fats, entertainment lethargy, ignorant power and self interested morals.
I am skeptical as to how “innocent” these unfortunate victims really were and I wonder as to what level of responsibility a voting citizen shares in the deeds of its leaders-especially in a democratic society-or if the lethargic, apathy defense can be used as an excuse here. [It’s the same excuse German war criminals used in the Nuremberg trials.]
It would appear that Americans have no qualms about their armed forces bombing Serbia, Iraq or Vietnam, they see no innocent victims in the faces of Nicaraguan, Panamanian, Chilean, Serbian, Iraqi, Vietnamese, Korean, Cuban-to name a few-casualties and choose to see them as collateral damage and unfortunate casualties for which they earnestly apologize for but that were necessary for the greater “good” they are the interpreters of and the representatives of.
American “innocent” civilians seem more than capable of turning a blind eye when what is at stake is their four bedroom house, their two cars in the driveway, their cheap gas, their consumption of a disproportionate amount of goods when compared to the world average or when their personal freedom to be as selfish, egotistical and self absorbed is at stake. Their definition of freedom is the ability to choose between one soap and another, to have access to multiple brands of soft drink or to drink and eat themselves to death, while the last election fiasco of Bush junior leaves them yawning and his obvious inadequacy, moronic ignorance, below average intelligence, and overall obtuseness does not phase them in the least.
I suppose Americans prefer not to look up at their leaders but down on them, they do not choose based on the candidates apparent superiority in making decisions on their behalf but prefer the next door neighbor type [with the powerful connections and goofy smile] that they can feel comfortable with and that reminds them of themselves in so many ways; they don’t want to be intimidated by their leaders they want them to mirror their mediocrity, apathy, lack of intellectual concerns; they don’t want to be inspired and challenged by their leaders but prefer those that make them feel good about their own insecurities and stupidity [Gawrsh!!! If he can become president then darn it I ain’t so bad after all].
Americans don’t want leaders that are better informed, well read and possessing minds that will be put in their service but wish rather for one needing a teleprompter; that achieves power through connected interests and buys his position but does not earn it.
[Then again who believes it’s the president that is in charge anyway. This recent president uncovers the dirty little secret of US “democracy”]
So were these people “innocent” or just ignorant?
I guess the stupidity defense can be used -after all we don’t kill our dog because it shits on the carpet- but what does that say about democracy in general and about the human species?
Did these “innocent” victims rebel against Reagan and his international politics even when the Contra fiasco was uncovered? No, it seems they are more intolerant of Clinton’s sexual exploits and his lies to keep them secret but paramilitary groups destroying a people and labeling themselves as “freedom fighters” paid for by drug money leaves them uninterested.
Did Americans think about the human lives lost in all their surgical, aerial bombings that their heroic, warrior angels conduct to keep their bank accounts full, their lack of interest intact and their plutocracy healthy? No, they appear more concerned as to who will screw whom in Hollywood and how many luxurious homes this or that billionaire has as they sit in their little apartment struggling to pay the rent.
Do Americans even know where Iraq is or Afghanistan? No, but they sure know where the supermarket is so that they can buy those chips and dip they use to dull themselves into oblivion in front of sit-com, reality programs. Their waist lines grow as their brains shrink and all is well in the world of the inebriated.
Are Americans angry about the recent corporate corruption scandals?
Well from the reactions they are more concerned about Baseball strikes, Tom Cruises next movie and big government meddling in their affairs
Are Americans frustrated by the last election fraud and the Judicial decision to give the presidency to an incompetent buffoon who’s father gave them their seats?
No, they find George W. cute as he struggles to put a coherent sentence together and lives on the coaching of his advisors. What does the health care system matter when they got McDonalds and Burger King to keep them content?

Then these same “innocent” Americans accuse the world of being jealous of them and their freedoms and they explain the apparent common international hatred of them in simplistic, superficial ways that has the added benefit of making them feel good as well.

Now, as the first September 11 anniversary passes and the American propaganda machine has ingrained this date forever in our minds, the US prepares its citizens and the world for the upcoming battle of “good” against “evil”. It protects its freedoms by taking them away from others half a globe away; it defends its “ideal” society by ensuring future gasoline flow, corporate anarchy and money morality.
The cycle continues.

The source of all human suffering and the biggest barrier to human destiny is the weakness of mind and the cowardice of spirit that enables mythologies to take root and be used for other purposes, it is the human predisposition to emotional perception and instinctual need that eradicates objective logical understanding of the universe and our place in it, it is the lies we tell ourselves to sleep at night and to wake with our minds untroubled.
Human ignorance and the motivations of those more clever to manipulate human psychologies by distorting reality and truth is what leads to unsupervised, undeserved, unearned power with unknown motives and consequences that can lead to the annihilation of our species entirely if left unchecked. The unconcerned absolutism, uninformed certainty and non-skeptical acceptance of morals and values as given to us by social and cultural institutions we know little about leads to us being used as pawns in a game we are not entirely aware of and who’s rewards for obedience may be enticing but are temporary and superficial in the long run.
To prevent ourselves from being “innocent” victims or unfortunate collateral casualties perhaps we should become willing, responsible, informed, aware and capable participants. Otherwise you will always be surprised by human actions and stunned by human hatred…but then again your ignorance suits me fine also.
 
**YAWN**

Tell me something I don't know motherfucker.
So just how many boards have you posted this on?
Dee Cee
 
From your well-crafted response and eloquent usage of language I can see you are a man of discriminating tastes and heightened sensibilities.
It will be pleasurable for me to bore you in the future and tell you things you, obviously, already know.
I will also anxiously await your next post that will enthral us all with its cutting wit and insightful originality.
I’m sure a mind like yours is full of clever little one-liners and to-the-point commentary that surfaces from a pool of wisdom.
Please keep posting I’m learning more about you by the minute.
 
What you say is probably true Wanderer, violence etc probably does revolve with Religious power, but this does not mean that they are all wrong! At least they are all on the same side: they are fighting for a supreme force, something which is surely very real! Yet the 'free world', which could not bear to live under authority, and was squeezed from under a spreading Eastern blanket of authority, claims to love God, while secretely being a-thiest. I'm sure the world can see this. I don't think it's coincidence that religion has no problem living under an authority, even one which is so much greater than everything.

Yet the evil is free, and as it resides it antagonises the world. And this free world are shown answers through the word of God, in an effort to supress the evil, but it takes the evidence and says "Yes, this is correct!." Then the beast holds aloft the evidence and cries "Look what I have! I have the truth!" The beast then thinks to itself, "Let me do more evil, and have more answers". Thus the evil will continue, until it either lowers it's ugly head, from where it came, or until it is put to death.
 
Definitions

Define 'Evil'.
Define 'Good'.
This moron equates morality with Christianity as if animals are immoral and ethics is reserved for the few mindless dolts that have been indoctrinated within Christianity. He perceives the degradation of man as being the product of atheism and not theism as it is.
The age-old position once more. The disease shows its symptom and the virus attempts to spread by using its host as the means for its own survival.
In this case a brainless automaton spewing the same old crap as he has memorized it and told to believe in it with no question or critical thought of his own..
Every Forum has at least a few fundamentalists and Christian minds that somehow think they are different from Islamic fanatics or Buddhist extremists or Hindu cows. A few ‘humatons’ that have somehow convinced themselves that there is ‘truth’ and that they have stumbled upon it.
If all you perceived from my post, Mucker [I can have a field day with that alias], is that violence revolves around power, whether religious or not, then I suggest you move on and never respond to my posts again. In fact never read my posts again. Your mere gaze insults me.
I have a low tolerance for stupidity and I might have to become verbally abusive and get myself in trouble again.
 
This moron equates morality with Christianity as if animals are immoral and ethics is reserved for the few mindless dolts that have been indoctrinated within Christianity.
Not at all! In fact I question monotheism somewhat. It seems clear that 'the world' is in fact just a plethora where each thing occurs somewhere on a scale. Nothing says that the three different entities were created by one, except maybe reason, which is nicely adapted to be a scaled Judge of the other two entities, however it seems quite possible that the entities just agreed to coincide with each other to create life, but then maybe that seems just a bit too perfect. How is it that if the three were not created by one, that they all co-exist in such harmony??! And shouldn't that be 'indoctrinated with Christianity'?? :)
He perceives the degradation of man as being the product of atheism and not theism as it is.
That's crap! How can it be true when Theism has no problem with having an authority that is so powerful that it was that which created us?? Theism is evil because it either cannot live under authority, or it praises one over the other, when all of the three are needed! How can one try to have authority over two of the three by following only one of the Gods?
 
Mucker, I've read your post about five times and still have no clue what you are talking about. Perhaps this site will help with you grammer problems: www.fuckchrist.com

Well said Wanderer, although I must agree with the others that it has been said and done on this particular forum. At a time when Laura Bush claims that the 'sole idealogy of al-Queda is the oppression of women' most rational people can see the extent of the lies.

I would also add that Christianity evolved into a canister for revenge based politics, and thus no attention was paid to the actual motivation or reason behind the Sept. 11 attacks. Nope, Israel and US embargos had nothing to do with it. :rolleyes:
 
New guy

I'm new to this Forum.
So I thought I would post some of the things I've posted in another Forum so that I can introduce myself and my positions.
 
I can now understand how history is shaped to fit the agendas of governments.

I didn't feel sad for the people in the towers or their families. It didn't upset me that it was a terrorist attack, or that the attack was in the name of a fundementalist religion (and to answer any snappy\wise-ass remarks that come from my previous statements...I am human and normal). One way Sept 11 has affected me was realizing how ruthless my government was, and how the media can create any kind of emotion in their reporting. With those two elements, my government created more death from a single, isolated accident. My government is ruthless. My government has the final say to how people should live their lives....half a world away, in other countries.

Other than mentally stimulating my political awareness, Sept 11 has caused my backpack to be tested for anthrax at the airport when I went through airport security, has caused me to be at the airport a long time before my flight leaves, has caused heavier traffic along the tunnels and bridges linking New Jersey and New York, and has indirectly caused my gasoline prices to rise, and my operating costs of my business to rise.

I will not speculate on the future of how Sept 11 will physically affect me because I am not a psychic or a wise, old man. The future is for my future self, and presently I'm occupied with living a life. I do care what will happen in the world in the future, but now I have more important priorities.

While watching the news on Sept 11, I thought the explosions were pretty neat, as well as the cinematography of the camera men on the ground. That day was like an art exibition where the reporters were the snooty art collector, who critiqued every detail of a painting but missed the big picture.

I envy the people who survived the disaster and who saw it unfold, because they have an incredible life-experience that I can only dream of. I envy the people who helped clean up the mess as well as try to save lost souls because they preformed their job above what was in their job description. I don't envy the people because they were brave or heroic. Bravery and heroism is never the same to two different people.

It's a shame the government and media relied on subjective titles and words like "attack" "terrorism" "heros" "brave" "evil-doers" "evil" "good"....to support their opinions about the people, including Osama Bin Laden, that created the disaster. People are led to think there is a universal "goodness" that everything can be measured by, when they hear their government talk about "this man is evil" or "this day is horrible." I am confused by the messages my government has been telling me; while other people support the government's actions blindly, while other people reject the government's actions whole-heartedly, and then there are those like me, that are confused or indifferent about what the government is doing in the name of the 5000-or-so people that died that day. I was always taught two wrongs don't make a right....so 5,000 deaths don't make more death's right, either. The immaturity of my government's actions parallels two young brothers punching each out because the other one started it.

There is one thing in the future that I am certain will be used to analyze the past. The use of "pre-9/11" and "post-9/11." To me the day and years after Sept 11 wouldn't have been different if the Twin Towers were still standing today.
 
Originally posted by WANDERER
From your well-crafted response and eloquent usage of language I can see you are a man of discriminating tastes and heightened sensibilities.
It will be pleasurable for me to bore you in the future and tell you things you, obviously, already know.
I will also anxiously await your next post that will enthral us all with its cutting wit and insightful originality.
I’m sure a mind like yours is full of clever little one-liners and to-the-point commentary that surfaces from a pool of wisdom.
Please keep posting I’m learning more about you by the minute.

Go for it Wanderer. Hit low and hard, preferably in the solar plexus or the balls, and spare no quarter! Give you 30 DAYS.
 
Welcome

Welcome to my new den method3110.
I was told by XEV that this Forum is more ‘open’ and ‘tolerant’.
Paul [I’m afraid of loud voices and aggressive men] referred to it as: “Rant tolerant”
It’s amusing when someone calls me a “motherfucker” and risks no expulsion yet my sarcasm [Maybe it was an honest display of humility and respect] does.
Isn’t it interesting that vulgar remarks [Which I thoroughly enjoy, by the way] are considered less abrasive and threatening than a few well placed remarks and well aimed comments.
The power of language still intrigues me.
Perhaps I will right an essay on it.

I think I’ll tone it down though and make my 30 days 60.
We’ll see.

GRAZZHOPPA
I appreciate your remarks.
At least you are aware how you are being manipulated by mass media and the entertainment industry.
 
Yes, just look at the Baron's language, but beneath all the bluster he's politically correct ( and no threat at all) which is why he can remain at the tea-party. Besides he donated! Maybe that's the answer.
 
Impressive essay, wanderer, but i think its a tad cliched...its been done and done again, shat on, and done a 4th time. i think if you focused your energy (which is definitely very apparent from this massive piece) to causes less talked about, it would be both stimulating and interesting. as it is though, i couldnt make my way past the half way point. And use fewer words: your intelligence is evident enough in the material presented that you dont need them. There is a difference between using big words because they are more effective at conveying ideas and using them because they will make you look smart. For instance, this sentence:
it is the human predisposition to emotional perception and instinctual need that eradicates objective logical understanding of the universe and our place in it
can be simply stated as "humans are feeling creatures, and naturally think based on instinct, making it hard for them to think logically and objectively about the universe". This makes the paper easier to read, (not so much of a "Sisyphean task" to "portray" it in the unnecessarily "verbose" fashion), and gets your point across better to an audience who has an average 6th grade reading level. And as to the material presented, i would like to point out this passage:
In fact when we look back into history we see that Christians and all other faiths-perhaps with the exception of Buddhism for various reasons-have produced in their history atrocities, violence, suffering and blind hate while all along preaching or pretending to represent the opposite values.
This is simply not true. There are hundreds upon hundreds, if not thousands, of religions worldwide. and most are very peaceful. in fact, i might even say that the three main faiths--christianity Islam and Judaism, are the minority. For instance, Hinduism, Jainism, Shintoism, Daoism, Sikhism, and many tribal religions, just to name a few, have peaceful pasts with little "atrocities, violence, suffering, and blind hate". You should have researched this before writing an essay on it...But aside from that, this monumental production is worth some praise at least, in that i think your point is well thought out, and it is "very evident" that you have "deliberated" "profusely". Though you might try to clarify this "obfuscation".
 
Perhaps he was just being general when he talked about religions. If gone into specifics, we can see that the history of religion is not so black and white. But in the general view of history, religions have been more menacing than helpful.
 
So I thought I would post some of the things I've posted in another Forum so that I can introduce myself and my positions.
Patronise

patronize, UK USUALLY patronise
verb [T] DISAPPROVING
to speak to or behave towards someone as if they are stupid or unimportant:
"Stop patronising me - I understand the play as well as you do."

patronizing, UK USUALLY patronising
adjective
"It's that patronizing tone of hers that I can't bear."

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=58107&dict=CALD&desc=patronize

Be careful what you wish for.
Dee Cee
 
DeeCee:
It is admirable of you to make sure that your stupidity is obvious. This saves the rest of us the trouble of trying to engage you mentally.

However, this is overboard. Please consider listening to Father Darwin's whispered pleas to remove yourself from the gene pool.
 
Probably more than half of the WE&P regulars celebrated on the street when 9/11 happened.
 
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