Seen any X-MEN Lately?

SetiAlpha6

SetiAlpha6

Come Let Us Reason Together
Valued Senior Member
Some Christians teach that salvation is by faith alone. So, a person would, very obviously, need to have at least a tiny bit of faith in God to be a Christian and to be saved, right? Some might even say that God requires more than just a little faith. And some would even say that God requires works as well. Of course, all the people that say that are probably headed for that really hot place! All it takes is for a person to make one little mistake in doctrine like this or even misinterpret a handful of scriptures and they will burn. Personally, I find this to be ridiculous, but there are many that teach and believe this. That is the only reason why I mention it in passing now.

Anyway, how do we know if we have true genuine faith, even just a little? Well, according to Jesus, in the scripture passage below, there is a very simple way for us all to find out.

Matthew 17:20 (New King James Version)
20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.

Does anyone actually know any X-MEN like people who can do this? If not, does anyone then really have the faith Jesus spoke about, is anyone really a Christian, and is anyone really saved?

I tried once, to move a mountain, actually just a small hill, outside my office window, but it did not move. Who would have thought? I obviously failed the test of faith. But is there anyone else anywhere that can actually pass it? Go ahead and give it a try yourself and see what happens. Test your own faith!

Now, in addition, this verse also promises that, “nothing will be impossible for you”. Have you ever been able to say this about yourself or personally witnessed this characteristic in any other human, ever? Have you ever seen this even in men and women of great faith?

If not why?
 
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SetiAlpha6 said:
Some Christians teach that salvation is by faith alone. So, a person would, very obviously, need to have at least a tiny bit of faith in God to be a Christian and to be saved, right? Some might even say that God requires more than just a little faith. And some would even say that God requires works as well. Of course, all the people that say that are probably headed for that really hot place! All it takes is for a person to make one little mistake in doctrine like this or even misinterpret a handful of scriptures and they will burn.
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I can understand the emphasis on faith as it conditions the mind to disregard common sense,the need to explore and look for empirical or at least suggestive evidence. Just what the old church fathers and earlier, the ancient hebrews needed to keep people from straying from the religion..it's always been in large part about ...control!
 
nova900 said:
I can understand the emphasis on faith as it conditions the mind to disregard common sense,the need to explore and look for empirical or at least suggestive evidence. Just what the old church fathers and earlier, the ancient hebrews needed to keep people from straying from the religion..it's always been in large part about ...control!
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Yes, I agree! But it took a lot of personal pain and a strong desire for truth, no matter where it leads, for me to see that.

Thank You
 
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SetiAlpha6 said:
Matthew 17:20 (New King James Version)
20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.
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Jesus is just describing mind over matter, how we have so much power within us, the ability to do literally anything, literally, just as many other spiritual teachers taught...
 
VitalOne said:
Jesus is just describing mind over matter, how we have so much power within us, the ability to do literally anything, literally, just as many other spiritual teachers taught...
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It seems like, perhaps, you are reducing this merely down to positive thinking. If I think I can, then I can? Is that what you are saying?
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
It seems like, perhaps, you are reducing this merely down to positive thinking. If I think I can, then I can? Is that what you are saying?
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Well yeah kind of, think good thoughts known as Right Thoughts (samyak-saṃkalpa) in the Buddhist Eightfold Path. But I, personally don't believe in what people consider positive or wishful thinking. I think it will lead to delusion and darkness, you have to have positive thoughts consciously and un-consciously, otherwise you're just being delusional...
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
Some Christians teach that salvation is by faith alone. So, a person would, very obviously, need to have at least a tiny bit of faith in God to be a Christian and to be saved, right? Some might even say that God requires more than just a little faith. And some would even say that God requires works as well. Of course, all the people that say that are probably headed for that really hot place! All it takes is for a person to make one little mistake in doctrine like this or even misinterpret a handful of scriptures and they will burn. Personally, I find this to be ridiculous, but there are many that teach and believe this. That is the only reason why I mention it in passing now.

Anyway, how do we know if we have true genuine faith, even just a little? Well, according to Jesus, in the scripture passage below, there is a very simple way for us all to find out.

Matthew 17:20 (New King James Version)
20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.

Does anyone actually know any X-MEN like people who can do this? If not, does anyone then really have the faith Jesus spoke about, is anyone really a Christian, and is anyone really saved?

I tried once, to move a mountain, actually just a small hill, outside my office window, but it did not move. Who would have thought? I obviously failed the test of faith. But is there anyone else anywhere that can actually pass it? Go ahead and give it a try yourself and see what happens. Test your own faith!

Now, in addition, this verse also promises that, “nothing will be impossible for you”. Have you ever been able to say this about yourself or personally witnessed this characteristic in any other human, ever? Have you ever seen this even in men and women of great faith?

If not why?
Click to expand...

Whats up man? Remember me? LoL. Anyway let's break this down. Faith? You haven't defined it so I don't know what to tell you. Some say just belief while some, like me, take to a deeper meaning. Also notice the scripture says you can not you will. Anyway what do you think it is saying? I mean I believe it is showing the power of God. Doesn't that make sense. If not you will tell me. Anyway to adress the "nothing will be impossible" means nothing God wills or allows will be impossible for you. Obviously there are things impossible. If I say I am so hungry I could eat a cow you know I am just saying I am hungry not that I can literally eat a cow.
Oh and no I haven't seen any X-men, personally I am a Ninja Turtle fan, but hey wolverine is pretty cool.

Thank you,
His son,
><>Warrior61<><
 
It's a metaphor. Faith as described in Christianity is not what Jesus meant. It's not faith in God exactly, but the trust to step into the unknown, to trust yourself and give up the illusion of control, to become innocent as a dove, to become like children.
 
Warrior61 said:
Whats up man? Remember me? LoL. Anyway let's break this down. Faith? You haven't defined it so I don't know what to tell you. Some say just belief while some, like me, take to a deeper meaning.
Click to expand...


Hi again and thank you for your response. I hope you are enjoying the time you have off from the daily grind as you recover from mono.

What kind of faith is saving faith? That is the real question, is it not? Unfortunately, people in the Christian Church, throughout history, have quite literally killed each other, by the millions, over disagreements on this very topic. And I think, if I am not mistaken, that they are still doing this even to our current day. "Onward Christian soldiers marching as to war..."

Having said all this, we can still look at this aspect more if you wish.

Warrior61 said:
Also notice the scripture says you can not you will.
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Please read it one more time. This version (quoted again below) does say "you will". The common method of the day is to jump around from one translation to another until you find the specific translation that says what you want it to say. Then, shazzzam, you have the "truth". This method does tend to ensure that you never have to change your mind about anything. I do not, however, know if you are doing this or not.

Matthew 17:20 (New King James Version)
20 ...I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.

Warrior61 said:
Anyway what do you think it is saying? I mean I believe it is showing the power of God. Doesn't that make sense. If not you will tell me. Anyway to adress the "nothing will be impossible" means nothing God wills or allows will be impossible for you. Obviously there are things impossible. If I say I am so hungry I could eat a cow you know I am just saying I am hungry not that I can literally eat a cow.
Click to expand...


What do I think it says? I think it says that if you have even a little faith, you can move a mountain from where it is on land and cast it into the sea. Just as it also says below in Mark 11:23. The text does not seem to mention at all whether it is God's will or not. That does not seem to matter in the least in this passage. What matters is, if you have faith and if you do not doubt then all these things will be possible. Is there any chance that you are, perhaps, adding to the scriptures as you wish to make them say what you want them to say?


Here are a few more related verses for your consideration:

Matthew 21:21 (New King James Version)
So Jesus answered and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but also if you say to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ it will be done.

Mark 11:23 (New King James Version)
For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says.

1 Corinthians 13:2 (New King James Version)
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

Mark 9:23 (New King James Version)
Jesus said to him, “If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.”


Thank You!
 
spidergoat said:
Why is it not possible to move a mountain? It's just made of rock and dirt.
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It can indeed be accomplished through human effort. But we all know that already. That would basically mean that Jesus is essentially saying nothing, or simply stating the obvious, since anyone can do it through human effort, with or without faith in God. The claim here seems to be that this can be accomplished purely as an act of faith.
 
That's the most important part. Where there's a will, there's a way. I think Jesus like to teach in parables, so it's probably wrong to take it literally, like faith in the idea of God will actually cause the mountain to move on it's own.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
Please read it one more time. This version (quoted again below) does say "you will". The common method of the day is to jump around from one translation to another until you find the specific translation that says what you want it to say. Then, shazzzam, you have the "truth". This method does tend to ensure that you never have to change your mind about anything. I do not, however, know if you are doing this or not.

Matthew 17:20 (New King James Version)
20 ...I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.




What do I think it says? I think it says that if you have even a little faith, you can move a mountain from where it is on land and cast it into the sea. Just as it also says below in Mark 11:23. The text does not seem to mention at all whether it is God's will or not. That does not seem to matter in the least in this passage. What matters is, if you have faith and if you do not doubt then all these things will be possible. Is there any chance that you are, perhaps, adding to the scriptures as you wish to make them say what you want them to say?


Here are a few more related verses for your consideration:

Matthew 21:21 (New King James Version)
So Jesus answered and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but also if you say to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ it will be done.

Mark 11:23 (New King James Version)
For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says.

1 Corinthians 13:2 (New King James Version)
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

Mark 9:23 (New King James Version)
Jesus said to him, “If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.”
Click to expand...

Ok first I am not running around from translation to translation but the truth is some are better for different verses. I don't know Hebrew or Greek so its not like I can read that. I see what you were saying though. You are right though. It does say that. I could move a mountain. I can do anything. I can even make Jesus sin. Wait thats immpossible. That is something I cant do. Honestly it is saying you will be able to do great things, but we know that it has to go hand in hand with God's will.

Hi again and thank you for your response. I hope you are enjoying the time you have off from the daily grind as you recover from mono.

What kind of faith is saving faith? That is the real question, is it not? Unfortunately, people in the Christian Church, throughout history, have quite literally killed each other, by the millions, over disagreements on this very topic. And I think, if I am not mistaken, that they are still doing this even to our current day. "Onward Christian soldiers marching as to war..."
Click to expand...

Thanks for your concern about my mono. I hate that crap. Anyway I am better now. I haven't had as much time, notice not as many posts, because of school. Anyway to address faith. Saving faith? Just simple belief? You have read the Bible, or are reading it. Have you seen it where it says "belief was acredited to you as righteousnes?" Saving faith would be Romans 10:9, "for if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved." Now what gives us this X-men faith? That would be strong faith. There are levels, I mean some do have more faith than others. It wouldn't be simply belief, its more of trust and belief in that person. LoL that song is my schools song.
Anyway I hope I have cleared this up.

Thank you,
His son,
><>Warrior61<><
 
spidergoat said:
That's the most important part. Where there's a will, there's a way. I think Jesus like to teach in parables, so it's probably wrong to take it literally, like faith in the idea of God will actually cause the mountain to move on it's own.
Click to expand...

Nah, I think it would be correct to take it literally. If you had no doubt within you unconsciously and consciously then you really could move a mountain just by willing it so...you could also make anything you desire occur...
 
Warrior61 said:
Thanks for your concern about my mono. I hate that crap. Anyway I am better now. I haven't had as much time, notice not as many posts, because of school. Anyway to address faith. Saving faith? Just simple belief? You have read the Bible, or are reading it. Have you seen it where it says "belief was acredited to you as righteousnes?" Saving faith would be Romans 10:9, "for if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved." Now what gives us this X-men faith? That would be strong faith. There are levels, I mean some do have more faith than others. It wouldn't be simply belief, its more of trust and belief in that person. LoL that song is my schools song.
Anyway I hope I have cleared this up.

Thank you,
His son,
><>Warrior61<><
Click to expand...


I am glad you are feeling better, but sorry that you may not be able to post as often!


Along the topic of faith, have you ever considered the following view of salvation?

Romans 2:5-13 (New American Standard Bible)

5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

Does this look like salvation by faith or salvation by works to you? Does a person have to obey the Law to be a Christian?

Thanks
 
mountainhare said:
I've seen Magneto move a bridge. That's sort of similiar.
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Yes, I saw him do that as well, but as you know, that was only a movie.

So far, it looks like this only happens in the movies.

According to the verse, this is not supposed to take GREAT faith at all, but only a very little. So has anyone ever seen any real X-Men like people manipulate physical matter and move anything remotely like a mountain from one location to another, just by believing and asking it to do so?

Has this happened even one single time in the history of this planet since the time that Jesus said it? Unfortunately, this is starting to look like a false prophecy. :confused:

Any spoon benders out there?
 
VitalOne said:
Nah, I think it would be correct to take it literally. If you had no doubt within you unconsciously and consciously then you really could move a mountain just by willing it so...you could also make anything you desire occur...
Click to expand...

Magic?

Jesus said let them who have eyes see. That means some personal interpretation is required to see the true meaning.
 
spidergoat said:
Magic?

Jesus said let them who have eyes see. That means some personal interpretation is required to see the true meaning.
Click to expand...

I have two eyes! Thanks! How many do you have?

It is precisely because it is left up to everyone’s own "personal interpretation" that millions have died fighting over what the truth really is. Everyone ends up thinking that they are right, and that they are guided by the Holy Spirit unto all truth, and every one else is wrong. Unless they happen to agree with you of course! Then they are right!

Thanks!
 
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