Science and Magic. two different worlds ?

I

Iristas

Registered Member
HI, i've been wondering about this one, and still don't think it's absolutely silly, so i'll just post it to see if anyone else thinks it's complete rubbish or not...

Say, magic, in the middleages, conjuring fire, alchimy, doing unnatural things with pots and potions ... most of these tricks are now known as basic science with a bit of flair. Could it be that te things we nowadays still concider as magic, are the directions we need for scientific progress? like deep research on the real human psyche, how we think, conjure ideas and believe in them, would we be able to find ways to make telepathy, telekinese, levitation... things of daily life?

I'l gladly read any comments or thoughts on these questions, and have you asked them yourself before ?

~iristas~
 
I disagree that alchemy etc were just basic science with "flair". They were not pursuing scientific objective using scientific methods. INstead, they were doing an interesting and confusing mix of religion, spiritual improvement, making money, etc. The closest to science was actually being done by practical people like blacksmiths, masons and miners, who were experimenting, fiddling and improving things, such as mine drainage. I have several reprints of translations of books from the 16th century, showing a huge variety of machiens for ventilating mines, breaking up ore, etc. Or theres architects drawing from the 13th century, and the maths they were doing back then.

I would not say that we need the idea of telepathy etc as direction for progress; rather it is something that might be rendered possible by scientific advances, virtually as a by product of everything that we now or will learn.
 
ok, i dind't mean to say they were practicing science in the middle ages, i said they were using thechniques called science today

people today still use science to make money...
 
" i said they were using thechniques called science today"

can you expand a bit more? Yes, lots of people are doing science today. However I have yet to come across any scientific advance that has occured because someone sat down and thought "I shall look into possible brain mechanisms for causing telekinesis."
 
no, there's no research on it, that's the point, would it be any good to go researchin in that direction, to see if telekinesis for example is possible at all, and if yes, how. in brains ? snare theory ? I personally think the snare theory will bring a breaktrough in science, but if it has anything to do wiht parapsychology, i don't know, i'm not experienced on the plain of parapsycholgy :s
 
Iristas said:
HI, i've been wondering about this one, and still don't think it's absolutely silly, so i'll just post it to see if anyone else thinks it's complete rubbish or not...

Say, magic, in the middleages, conjuring fire, alchimy, doing unnatural things with pots and potions ... most of these tricks are now known as basic science with a bit of flair. Could it be that te things we nowadays still concider as magic, are the directions we need for scientific progress? like deep research on the real human psyche, how we think, conjure ideas and believe in them, would we be able to find ways to make telepathy, telekinese, levitation... things of daily life?

I'l gladly read any comments or thoughts on these questions, and have you asked them yourself before ?

~iristas~
Click to expand...


i agree with you.... AND YES.... EVENTUALLY.

-MT
 
Iristas said:
HI, i've been wondering about this one, and still don't think it's absolutely silly, so i'll just post it to see if anyone else thinks it's complete rubbish or not...

Say, magic, in the middleages, conjuring fire, alchimy, doing unnatural things with pots and potions ... most of these tricks are now known as basic science with a bit of flair. Could it be that te things we nowadays still concider as magic, are the directions we need for scientific progress? like deep research on the real human psyche, how we think, conjure ideas and believe in them, would we be able to find ways to make telepathy, telekinese, levitation... things of daily life?

I'l gladly read any comments or thoughts on these questions, and have you asked them yourself before ?

~iristas~
Click to expand...


Don't know. I honestly don't consider anything as 'magic'.
 
Crunchy Cat said:
Don't know. I honestly don't consider anything as 'magic'.
Click to expand...
:D ... and you know, that is a good consideration...

but than what do you consider it like? just fairytales and stuff to keep young children in bed? and recently something to make a lot of money on films and games industry ?
 
Iristas said:
:D ... and you know, that is a good consideration...

but than what do you consider it like? just fairytales and stuff to keep young children in bed? and recently something to make a lot of money on films and games industry ?
Click to expand...

All the above and more. If I were to reduce it, I would assert that magic is the concept of humans being able to alter their environment primarily with their own thoughts. It's a very attractive and desireable concept and it rears it's head in stories, games, culture, and religion.
 
Everything is connected, science knows it, magic knows it, just a few narrowminded people denies it because they fear ( everyhting basically) . A collaboration between these two fields would mean a revolution and we are soon there anyway so discussing why it can't work it futile, because it will.

I'm in a bad mood today, so I came here.
 
Iristas said:
no, there's no research on it, that's the point, would it be any good to go researchin in that direction, to see if telekinesis for example is possible at all, and if yes, how. in brains ? snare theory ? I personally think the snare theory will bring a breaktrough in science, but if it has anything to do wiht parapsychology, i don't know, i'm not experienced on the plain of parapsycholgy :s
Click to expand...
I'll be charitable. There has in fact been an enormous amount of research done. Anything with a significant result turned out to be fraudulent or based on inadequate controls. Even if the means by which the significant result in any TK or other psi experiment was not discovered, even the parapsychological community were forced to the admission that apparently "successful" experiments that had been carried out were not repeatable.

Many people would claim this to be typical scientific nitpicking, but seriously, if something can't be repeated - in or out of a scientific laboratory (and of course I am excluding tv psychics and similar sideshow foolery) - then what use is it? I've never even heard that people identified in those erroneous experiments ever found further employment as stock analysts, criminal investigators or general inventors of "magical artefacts".
 
Magic=Superstious science.

The psychic field of study is way too complex to be properly studied or proved in several centuries. Or millenias. The problem mostly revolves around not being able to properly train in the field without proof, and not being able to prove anything without COMPETENT practicioners of the skill. Most people who try are either stupid or conning in nature, and have little intrest in actually training and mastering their skills. And any sane person refuses to waste time on the practice as they do not even know if it exists.

And even if some sane person tries, he will find no or little help from others, who are either fraudulent or inane. So, like the first steps of science, it fails to impress anyone.
 
guthrie said:
I disagree that alchemy etc were just basic science with "flair". They were not pursuing scientific objective using scientific methods. INstead, they were doing an interesting and confusing mix of religion, spiritual improvement, making money, etc. The closest to science was actually being done by practical people like blacksmiths, masons and miners, who were experimenting, fiddling and improving things, such as mine drainage. I have several reprints of translations of books from the 16th century, showing a huge variety of machiens for ventilating mines, breaking up ore, etc. Or theres architects drawing from the 13th century, and the maths they were doing back then.

I would not say that we need the idea of telepathy etc as direction for progress; rather it is something that might be rendered possible by scientific advances, virtually as a by product of everything that we now or will learn.
Click to expand...

Alchemy is the basis of all science. Newton himself was an Alchemist. It's definately not religion, it's more a study of natural systems and an interpretation of it in a way which makes sense to scientists. Science without philosophy to guide it, usually follows a self destructive path.
 
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