Saul's Conversion?

[battig1370]

Saul's Conversion?

In what way was Saul coverted??? The reason I ask this question is that after about 30 years of preaching, Saul/St.Paul makes a confession near the end of his life saying, --- "We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh, I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. --- Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? --- So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin." - ( Roman 7:14-20 +24-25 )

On the road to Damascus, Saul was a wretched man, and near the time his death in Rome he confesses to be wretched man. In what way was Saul coverted???

Peace be with be, Paul

 

[Medicine*Woman]

battig1370: Saul's Conversion? In what way was Saul coverted??? The reason I ask this question is that after about 30 years of preaching, Saul/St.Paul makes a confession near the end of his life saying, --- "We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh, I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. --- Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? --- So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin." - ( Roman 7:14-20 +24-25 )

On the road to Damascus, Saul was a wretched man, and near the time his death in Rome he confesses to be wretched man. In what way was Saul coverted???
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M*W: Paul was never converted and he admits it in the end. His words would indicate that he is a man torn between the law, spirituality, and carnal sin which he was never able to free himself from. Paul's carnal sin (not my opinion) was homosexuality. Paul's disobedience of the law would be found in his instigation of murderous riots, thievery, and pathological lying his whole life -- even lying to himself -- and believing his own lies. Paul usurped the spirituality that Jesus taught to give the Gentiles the false hope of a dying demigod savior and an afterlife. He knew at the end there was no hope, no savior, and no salvation. His life was for nothing, but his death made him the great false apostle and martyr of christianity.

 

[Adstar]

Saul's Conversion?

In what way was Saul coverted??? The reason I ask this question is that after about 30 years of preaching, Saul/St.Paul makes a confession near the end of his life saying, --- "We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh, I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. --- Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? --- So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin." - ( Roman 7:14-20 +24-25 )


On the road to Damascus, Saul was a wretched man, and near the time his death in Rome he confesses to be wretched man. In what way was Saul coverted???

Peace be with be, Paul

Paul is afirming he is a sinner saved by grace not saved by being perfect. No one ceases to sin after they embrace Jesus as savor. Sin continues in all men untill they leave this existance.



The Right Spirit

Romans 7
14For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.

Can you see what Paul is saying hear even though he breaks the law and he hates the fact. He in his heart agrees with the Spirit about the Law “, I agree with the law that it is good.”

17But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.

Hear again he is condemning the sin that dwells in his carnal body.

20Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Do you see what having the SPIRIT means?

21I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.


So hear Paul declares he is at war with his own flesh in doing so he is revealing he has the SPIRIT inside him bringing him to understanding on this issue. He is serving God while still being a sinner. To try to explain it in another way the SPIRIT has caused him to develop a kind of split personality one that ensures he always serves the LORD with his mind which is his soul.

Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Do you get it? By the Message and act of the Messiah He made it possible for everyman to condemn sin to their flesh for the body we have is not eternal it is corruptible and we shall leave our sin with it when we get our new bodies at the resurrection. Those who walk with the Messiah’s helper the SPIRIT will escape condemnation for we do not have our minds in agreement with the sin of our flesh.

5For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So even though we are still in our carnal body we can still be “spiritually minded” and to be spiritually minded is “life and peace”. Those who are “in the flesh” are people who love sin who agree with sin who rebel against the LAW in their minds,

Remember the old saying “It is not if you win or loose it is how you play that game” Do you play the game in the right spirit? For in fighting against the sin we are in agreement with God that sin is evil and to be resisted. God knows we are carnal. God knows we are faulty human beings. We shall not be made perfect until we receive our new bodies upon the resurrection. But through the Spirit We can be made perfectly acceptable with God because we agree with Him even though we through our faulty carnal existence fail Him daily.

9But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Know Jesus Know Peace
No Jesus No Peace


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Leo Volont]

Saul's Conversion?

In what way was Saul coverted??? The reason I ask this question is that after about 30 years of preaching, Saul/St.Paul makes a confession near the end of his life saying, --- "We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh, I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. --- Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? --- So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin." - ( Roman 7:14-20 +24-25 )

On the road to Damascus, Saul was a wretched man, and near the time his death in Rome he confesses to be wretched man. In what way was Saul coverted???

Peace be with be, Paul

Good! Finally! I hope you now will stop insisting that the writings of such self-confessed degenerate are the "Word of God".

Now that the Christian World is becoming self-conscious of the grave mistake it made in practically deifying Paul, a concerted effort will have to be made to rip his every letter out of the Bible and then purge Christian Doctrine of every one of his influences.

Although Christ had warned that there would be a Wide and Easy Way that would lead to Destruction, when it eventually presented itself... that is, when Paul presented it... it was simply too seductive to resist. Christ had been right -- Many would follow Paul to damnation, and few would retain the Moral Consciousness that Christ's Sermons were not to be disregarded simply because the Pharisees succeeded in murdering their Messiah. But now that we are growing cognizant of our terrible mistake, we can return to Christ with the attitude for Penance and the spirit of dedication to the pursuit of Moral and Spiritual Conversion, eager now to live a Life of Righteousness. No more of living Paul's dark ideal of indulging in the mire of Sin that a misguided Faith desparately depends are forgiven because Christ was killed before He could be crowned our King.

 

[Leo Volont]

Paul's carnal sin (not my opinion) was homosexuality.

I would think that most homosexuals would find it insulting that paul could be categorized with them. You know, there can be such a thing as positive generalizations... that is 'stereotypes' as they are usually refered to. Do we not consider Gays artistic and sensitive. What about Paul was ever artistic and sensitive?

Why not simply read his letters, and read what was written of him. He was stodgy and patriarchal. Where is the slightest hint of a hairdresser, a flower arranger, the interior decorator, or the dance instructor? If he does not walk like a duck or talk like a duck, then why insult all the ducks by calling him a 'duck'?

 

[battig1370]

Leo Volont: "--- stop insisting that the writings of such self-confessed degenerate are the "Word of God"."

Battig1370: You are accusing me that I am insisting that the writings of such self-confessed degenerate [ Saul/St.Paul ] are the "Word of God?
Why are you falsely accusing me? Where did you get that idea from? I would like to know.

The first time I saw the writings of Saul/St.Paul, I knew that his writting from a devil mind.

Leo Volont: "Now that the Christian World is becoming self-conscious of the grave mistake it made in practically deifying Paul, ---"

Battig1370: I hope you are right. Where are all these christians that are becoming self-conscious of the grave mistake it made in practically deifying Paul?

Leo Volont: "--- a concerted effort will have to be made to rip his every letter out of the Bible and then purge Christian Doctrine of every one of his influences."

Battig1370: "a concerted efforted" By Who!? Are they christian? I would like to join this concerted efforted

"will have to be made"? sometime in the future, when in the future? It has been a long time since the first christian disciples came into being in Antioch. "--- a concerted effort will have to be made. When? How soon? Where? and by Who?


Peace be with you, Paul

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Adstar: Paul is afirming he is a sinner saved by grace not saved by being perfect. No one ceases to sin after they embrace Jesus as savor. Sin continues in all men untill they leave this existance.
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M*W: Paul knew he was not saved after all! (Well, hell, none of us are).
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Adstar: The Right Spirit

Romans 7
14For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
*************
M*W: You have your own faulty interpretation to serve your own perspective. Paul admits here that he has all this self-hate. If he had truly been a follower of Jesus, he wouldn't have all this self-hate. How can anyone who believes themselves to be 'saved' have self-hate? You don't know what you are talking about, so why don't you quit preaching with your bible scriptures and shut the frick up?
*************
Adstar: Can you see what Paul is saying hear even though he breaks the law and he hates the fact. He in his heart agrees with the Spirit about the Law “, I agree with the law that it is good.”
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M*W: No, this is NOT what is meant. He is referring to his uncontrollable homosexuality with Timothy.
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Adstar: 17But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
*************
M*W: Paul was imprisoned in a solitary state. He no longer performs the homosexual act, but he still desires it. I believe Paul spent his whole life trying to get rid of his desires but couldn't (as one who is a homosexual knows, that would be killing the spirit, which Jesus taught against).
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Adstar: Hear again he is condemning the sin that dwells in his carnal body.
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M*W: Here again he is condemning the homosexuality that dwells in his carnal body.
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Adstar: 20Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
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M*W: Paul is looking for an excuse to free him from the guilt and self-hate of what he believes to be a sin. It was perfectly normal in those days to be heterosexual and take little boys on the side for sexual relief, but Paul was a homosexual, and as I see it, he craved the love of another man, Timothy, which was more than just sexual relief.
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Adstar: Do you see what having the SPIRIT means?
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M*W: I do, but you obviously don't.
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Adstar: 21I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
*************
M*W: Paul admits to being an evil man who wanted to do good but failed. He mentions the 'inward man' or the 'spiritual man', but he knows he failed his own spirit and his belief in god.
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Adstar: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
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M*W: Paul refers to his genitals as 'members' (flesh) "warring against the law of the mind (spirit).
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Adstar: 24O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
*************
M*W: Paul is hoping that Jesus will save him from his sexuality, but Paul had a lot of physical ailments: epilepsy, seizures, MPD, paranoia-schizophrenia, hallucinations, visions, hearing voices, and a plainly criminal nature, in addition to his homosexuality.
*************
Adstar: So hear Paul declares he is at war with his own flesh in doing so he is revealing he has the SPIRIT inside him bringing him to understanding on this issue. He is serving God while still being a sinner. To try to explain it in another way the SPIRIT has caused him to develop a kind of split personality one that ensures he always serves the LORD with his mind which is his soul.
*************
M*W: Paul's carnal nature was not as sinful as he may have thought. Why does Paul believe that his physical handicaps are sins? Therefore, he's only talking about his homosexuality.
*************
Adstar: Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
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M*W: Obviously, Paul is just guessing what Jesus would do. You can see the false hope in his belief. Delving a lot deeper into Paul's understanding, his love for Jesus was nothing more than what a giggly teenage girl feels for a rock star. Paul was desperately looking for love, and his love for Jesus was a fantasy from which probably emanated sexual feelings in Paul.
*************
Adstar: 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
*************
M*W: Paul spent his whole career lusting after Jesus, first in carnal knowledge, and secondly in spirit, since his carnal knowledge never led him to Jesus in the flesh.
*************
Adstar: Do you get it? By the Message and act of the Messiah He made it possible for everyman to condemn sin to their flesh for the body we have is not eternal it is corruptible and we shall leave our sin with it when we get our new bodies at the resurrection. Those who walk with the Messiah’s helper the SPIRIT will escape condemnation for we do not have our minds in agreement with the sin of our flesh.
*************
M*W: Paul tried to deny his sexuality which I believe he despised. It was forever an internal conflict which was never resolved. Paul hated women, and I believe, because he was jealous of them. He longed to be one.
*************
Adstar: 5For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
*************
M*W: Paul admits he failed miserably, but what he is saying was refuted by Jesus in the Gnostic Gospels. Jesus taught the need to achieve a balance between soma-psyche-pneuma.
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Adstar: So even though we are still in our carnal body we can still be “spiritually minded” and to be spiritually minded is “life and peace”. Those who are “in the flesh” are people who love sin who agree with sin who rebel against the LAW in their minds,
*************
M*W: Paul was just pissing in the wind here.
*************
Adstar: Remember the old saying “It is not if you win or loose it is how you play that game” Do you play the game in the right spirit? For in fighting against the sin we are in agreement with God that sin is evil and to be resisted. God knows we are carnal. God knows we are faulty human beings. We shall not be made perfect until we receive our new bodies upon the resurrection. But through the Spirit We can be made perfectly acceptable with God because we agree with Him even though we through our faulty carnal existence fail Him daily.
*************
M*W: Paul made the NT complicated and contradicted himself over and over again, because he was a torn man. He was opining then just like I'm doing now. What was true for Paul may have been a load of crap for Jesus.
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Adstar: 9But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
*************
M*W: Like I've told Leo a million times, sexuality is not a sin! It is a basic human need, and it is expressed individually in each human being. If our talents are not fulfilled, we will become frustrated. If we fail to acknowledge what dwells in our innermost being, we will die a spiritual death. When we repress our sexuality, it will come out in some perverted way. All art is an expression of our sexuality. It's gives us our creative power. Sexuality brings out our talents from our innermost being. Paul was a homosexual who suppressed his homosexuality, therefore, he waffled back and forth about the good and evils of the body and spirit, and I'm sure he died a broken man.
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Adstar: Know Jesus Know Peace
No Jesus No Peace
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M*W: Know Jesus No Paul
Know Paul No Jesus
No Paul No Jesus

 

[Leo Volont]

Leo Volont: "--- stop insisting that the writings of such self-confessed degenerate are the "Word of God"."

Battig1370: You are accusing me that I am insisting that the writings of such self-confessed degenerate [ Saul/St.Paul ] are the "Word of God?
Why are you falsely accusing me? Where did you get that idea from? I would like to know.

The first time I saw the writings of Saul/St.Paul, I knew that his writting from a devil mind.

Leo Volont: "Now that the Christian World is becoming self-conscious of the grave mistake it made in practically deifying Paul, ---"

Battig1370: I hope you are right. Where are all these christians that are becoming self-conscious of the grave mistake it made in practically deifying Paul?

Leo Volont: "--- a concerted effort will have to be made to rip his every letter out of the Bible and then purge Christian Doctrine of every one of his influences."

Battig1370: "a concerted efforted" By Who!? Are they christian? I would like to join this concerted efforted

"will have to be made"? sometime in the future, when in the future? It has been a long time since the first christian disciples came into being in Antioch. "--- a concerted effort will have to be made. When? How soon? Where? and by Who?


Peace be with you, Paul

If I misrepresented you, then it is only because I mistook you for somebody else, and I lapsed into my usual preachiness.

Why take it personally?

If you hate Paul too, then you should simply be glad that somebody else also hates him.

Or is it all about personality and getting stroked?

 

[duendy]

It's interesting that a poster claims Paul of Tarsus was a repressed Queer. That explains a lot about his guilt about the 'flesh'!
Also, someone else says that repression of sexuality can come out as perveted. i would choose the term 'viscious'

for example, it has been explained that the unprecendeted visciousness of celebate christians against women in the witchhunts was dude to sexual repression.....as you may know, Wilhelm Reich also proposed that all forms of fascism somes from sexual repression, and inhibited sexual orgasm

so Pauls. conflict between the 'flesh' and the 'spirit' is merely the same patriarchal pattern of the so-called split between spirit and Nature

 

[battig1370]

Leo Volont: Why take it personally?"

Battig1370: You personal advice here saying, "Good! Finally! I hope you now will stop insisting that the writings of such self-confessed degenerate are the "Word of God"." was not correct, and I just let you know.

Peace be with you, Paul

 

[Medicine*Woman]

duendy: It's interesting that a poster claims Paul of Tarsus was a repressed Queer. That explains a lot about his guilt about the 'flesh'! Also, someone else says that repression of sexuality can come out as perveted. i would choose the term 'viscious'
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M*W: duendy, that poster was moi. What I meant by "repressed sexuality" was NOT derogatorily directed at homosexuals but to heterosexuals as well -- more generically, to all human beings. Nothing viscious was meant by my stating that what one represses sexually will come out as a perversion. Psychologically, this is true whether it is sexuality that is repressed or hunger or one's talent -- and the list could be endless. For example, I've known several heterosexual women who repressed their sexual urges (with their husbands) due to guilt or seeing their sexuality as something evil (or whatever), and they became obsessive house cleaners and obsessive in other areas of their lives, and with their children. In some of these same women, I saw that they were suppressing their heterosexuality due to possible latent lesbianism.

Let me give you another non-sexual example: I've known many people in my life who suppressed their natural calling, whether it be artistry, poetry, cooking, nursing, writing, music or some other creative pursuit that they never followed through with. They became frustrated and felt as if they were dying inside. They hid their pain with alcohol and drugs (even suicide) to take away their unfulfilled innerspirit to stifle creative urges that they never accomplished. Again, self-frustrating people. All creativity comes from our sexual nature. I would imagine these folks who were repressing their creative talents were probably also suppressing their sexuality - OR - it could have caused their sexuality to come out in a perverted manner. (I am not saying homosexuality is perverted. I'm talking about pedophilia, sexual addiction, exhibitionism, etc., as perversions). I don't believe, however, that expressing oneself sexually as long as it is consensual is normal to that individual.
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duendy: for example, it has been explained that the unprecendeted visciousness of celebate christians against women in the witchhunts was dude to sexual repression.....as you may know, Wilhelm Reich also proposed that all forms of fascism somes from sexual repression, and inhibited sexual orgasm
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M*W: I would agree.
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duendy: so Pauls. conflict between the 'flesh' and the 'spirit' is merely the same patriarchal pattern of the so-called split between spirit and Nature
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M*W: I think Paul may have suppressed his sexuality (although some scholars wouldn't agree with this), because he was promoting Jesus as a religion. It was definitely a suppression of his carnal nature (homosexuality) with that of his spiritual nature, an internal conflict which plagued him forever. His zealousness (like any obsession arising from sexual repression) is par for the course. Just like the sexually suppressed housewife who hates sex with her husband but keeps an immaculate house. I've seen this so often, it's a dead giveaway to me. I don't believe it is natural to separate the body from the spirit.
In the Gnostic Gospels, Jesus explains what it means to "become fully human." One must attain a balance of soma-spirit-pneuma or body-mind-spirit to enter the kingdom of heaven (within).

It's always good to hear your viewpoint.

 

[battig1370]

Does anyone know WHY Saul/St.Paul, a wretch man, has so many coverts, from when christianity started in Anticoh to the present day with over 1 billion coverts?

JESUS said, "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown in to the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father which in heaven" - ( Matt. 7:17-21 )

All christians should read 'The First Epistle of John' it is a good measuring stick to find out if Saul/St.Paul was and is a bad tree, or a good tree.

Example: According to The First Epistle of John, it is written,

"He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

"He who sins is of of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the begining."

"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

"Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God,"

"let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth".

"He who does not love does not know God, for God is love."

Does anyone know WHY Saul/St.Paul, a wretch man, has so many coverts, from when christianity started in Anticoh to the present day with over 1 billion coverts?

Peace be with be, Paul

 

[Leo Volont]

Does anyone know WHY Saul/St.Paul, a wretch man, has so many coverts

Because he offers people the Wide Way that leads to destruction. Paul created an AntiReligion which tells people that they can be forgiven of all their Sins and can still go to Heaven, but ONLY if they reject the Law and reject the necessity for Righteousness.

Paul offered what seems to be a plausible argument to Many, that the murder of Christ was an acceptable Sacrifice for the Sins of the World. People get to believe that they do not have to do anything, except to believe, so that they can get a Free Pass into Heaven.

It is a huge Something-For-Nothing Scam.

Did not Christ predict that there would be Weeds mixed with the Wheat, and particularly that there would be established a Wide Way that would lead to Destruction that would be opposed to his Narrow Path of Righteousness.

Also, you are mistaken in thinking that Paul gathered Converts for Religion. Christ said that there would be those who would still be damned although they would be coming to the Judgment saying "Christ, Christ". The Words don't matter, if all the actions and doctrines are Anti-Religious.... and all of the Pauline Doctrines are Anti-Religion. They offer excuses not to be Righteous. They provide promises of Forgiveness instead of instilling in Hearts and Minds the necessity for adhering to Moral Criterias.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Because he offers people the Wide Way that leads to destruction. Paul created an AntiReligion which tells people that they can be forgiven of all their Sins and can still go to Heaven,

are you saying that Jesus said something diff about the Narrow Way?

but ONLY if they reject the Law and reject the necessity for Righteousness.

he was talking to Gentiles like me, Jewish christians are still bound by the Law & Traditions; like Passover, circumcision (you're not gonna get this Mexican to practice that, read Acts 15)

Paul offered what seems to be a plausible argument to Many, that the murder of Christ was an acceptable Sacrifice for the Sins of the World. People get to believe that they do not have to do anything, except to believe, so that they can get a Free Pass into Heaven.

It is a huge Something-For-Nothing Scam.

first of all, Paul writes about duty, changed hearts & lifestyles; read Romans, Ephesians, Corinthians, etc...
secondly, Christianity is not about Paul; but Jesus. If Paul said anything that leads people away from Jesus, then he would be a deciever, but from what I can gather from reading the Bible, all prophets point to Jesus

Did not Christ predict that there would be Weeds mixed with the Wheat, and particularly that there would be established a Wide Way that would lead to Destruction that would be opposed to his Narrow Path of Righteousness.

I always thought of the weeds as just-for-show christians; like Mafia, Mexican gangs, that make a great show of being Catholics, but live an unChristian lifestyle, or people that were christians in name only, or mormons, JW's, 7th-Day Adventists, most non-born again christians

Also, you are mistaken in thinking that Paul gathered Converts for Religion. Christ said that there would be those who would still be damned although they would be coming to the Judgment saying "Christ, Christ". The Words don't matter, if all the actions and doctrines are Anti-Religious.... and all of the Pauline Doctrines are Anti-Religion. They offer excuses not to be Righteous. They provide promises of Forgiveness instead of instilling in Hearts and Minds the necessity for adhering to Moral Criterias.

maybe we both are reading diff Bibles? I've never noticed? Give examples please?

 

[okinrus]

This is before Paul's conversion, I believe. Look how Paul begins on 7:9 "I once lived outside the law, but when the commandment came, sin became alive...."

 

[battig1370]

Saul/St.Paul makes a confession near the end of his life saying, > - ( Roman 7:14-20 +24-25 )

Saul/St.Paul's confession near the end of his life was written in the present tence.

Peace be with you, Paul